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Afaik, the problem with 27.5+ is getting tyres with strong enough sidewalls that don’t weigh a tonne.
If only there was some way of reducing the amount of rubber needed, keep the width, and yet still have thick enough sidewalls. I feel like the answer is staring me in the face.
so 29 has won out, though it remains to be seen what effect a 27.5+ slick would have on the general mass of commuters/ weekend warriors.
What a hideous dystopia that sounds like...
And then you get wind of the next trend being to diss the big offsets; small offsets and big trail have apparently become a thing (Chris Porter) but potentially because the target for these hoopy froods is Enduro dominance rather than “sharp” responses.
How many of the mainstream manufacturers are pushing small offsets and large trail numbers? Highly like its been tested and they've decided there is minimal gain on the stop watch.
Would laso say we've reached a limit of this long/lower/slacker thing, especially on the longer front. Seen a few reviews commenting along the lines of, whilst its not as long as some of the other bikes on the market, thats not necessarily a bad thing.
I think 29ers will continue to grow and be the dominant product in the market. 29+ wont catch on as a mainstream product but there will be a small niche that it will fill. 29+ is just too heavy
27.5 will still be the fun option where outrite speed and rollover isn’t necessary. Also in the cheaper end of the market. I think that 27.5+ will be a niche for ebikes only.
To summarise, 29ers with tyres ranging from 2.2-2.5 will be the main seller, then 27.5 in 2.4-2.6 width will be second and 27.5+ 2.8 and fatter for the ebikes.
Also I think that there will be a new hub standard for 29er. To try and reduce flex. 157mm might be the number if pivot and sram/shimano get together and push the new standard.
I think 29ers will continue to grow and be the dominant product in the market.
I'm just not seeing it, I hardly know anyone who up here who rides one, most of my mates are into Enduro, off piste stuff, uplift days, hike a bike etc. None of my immediate riding buddies own one, and they've all bought new bikes in the last year or two.
haha. Good question. Don't know - but remember an article which dealt exactly with this issue.
Have to try to find / to dig it out somewhere.
Research time (work is boring right now. Good to waste some time with questions like this. haha)
Its a global market. The uk market is tiny compared to the US. The US loves the 29er.
Btw I’m on a 27.5 and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
I do wonder how much of this crap is getting foisted on us because manufacturers are pandering to the American market. I've never ridden there except a few loops around the Houston area (on my cyclocross surrounded, by people with six inches of suspension) and I wonder if their definition of steep and technical is different to ours.
Got one 29er that is great,got 2 x 26ers that are great.
I do prefer the fit of the modern 29er, but really dont feel any vast difference.
They all require pedalling uphill and are equally fun coming down, maybe just at varying speeds.
Remember "Its not about the bike"
If I was to buy a new bike I would try and futureproof it, 29, boost etc etc
But standards are changing so quickly I'm afraid to pull the trigger.
Only found some stuff about DH biking:
<span class="bold">Has the 29er DH bike</span> come and gone already?
Sounds a bit (year 2017) that these folks are still struggling with 29er.
UCI #1 in 2017: YT Tues? 27.5 inch bike - or?
new 2018 prototype YT Tues:
27.5 again?
But that's DH stuff...
I do wonder how much of this crap is getting foisted on us because manufacturers are pandering to the American market.
Well people like Canyon and YT have only just started selling there so it's not the ultimate market
I’ve never ridden there except a few loops around the Houston area (on my cyclocross surrounded, by people with six inches of suspension) and I wonder if their definition of steep and technical is different to ours.
Steep and technical? about as steep and technical as the UK just with loads more variety
A few days around Moab, Park City and Whistler a couple of years abck had most people on exactly the same sort of bikes are here, a mix of 26/650/29 in all shapes and sizes doing all sorts of riding.
Remember “Its not about the bike”
100% Bike companies sell bikes because they make good bikes, it's in their interest to make good bikes.
The main proponents of the "war" is the internet these days, they seem to think one side has to win which is bollocks and bad for everyone. You got to love the I've ridden 29rs /650they are...... as nobody ever tried to define all 26" bikes as the same
The comment about weight is interesting. I don't know what the very early 29ers were like but if you compare the 26" Soul with the 29er Solaris (Mk1 as it happens) then with identical build kit other than the Soul having 26" wheels and rubber and also a woman's saddle rather than a man's the weight difference is a mahoosive 500g!
When I got the Solaris I also looked at 27.5" wheeled bikes. Depending on what tyres were on the bikes in some instances there was no discernible difference in total wheel diameter between 26" and 27.5" - obviously there was if both bikes had the same tyres (!).
29+ is pretty niche, I think it's only the Stache from the mainstream brands that has gone this route so far, maybe a couple of the Surly offerings along with the Jones but here in the UK those are certainly niche brands. I know a few who have 29+ up front with a plain 29" tyre at the rear but this is for long distance stuff on rigid bikes rather than trail centre type riding. It's very much a niche within a niche though.
A new hub standard? Oh FFS! I can't say I've noticed any flex in the Solaris with a very old school 135mm rear spacing. At the moment I can take a wheel from the Solaris and fit it to the Spearfish or my wife's Stooge because they all have the same dropout, I just have to change the cassette and I'm done.
As for who rides what: it depends. The biggest group I (occasionally) ride with have a mixture of 26", 27.5" and 29" bikes. At bikepacking/ITT type rides the 29er is by far the most common/popular.
Sounds a bit (year 2017) that these folks are still struggling with 29er.
The 29r DH story for 2017 was basically SC got in there early and worked with the riders to deliver a bike for pre season and had plenty of time to get them going on it.
Come Rd 1 the pace of the riders on them kicked everyone up the arse and got the others rushing out bikes and doing most of their testing either at races or in short gaps.
Most of the riders who got a cobbled together prototype to race one didn't feel comfortable right away and wanted more time, a lot are now back on production level bikes.
The "war" is pretty much only on the Internet.
" I think that 27.5+ will be a niche for ebikes only. "
The bike industry/media actually tells Emtb riders they need plus tyres on the rear for traction and your average Emtber actually believes this nonsense. You absolutely don't need plus tyres on an Emtb. Keeping/finding traction under power/climbing for any decent rider no matter what the tyre is created by rider skill. ie. knowing how to weight a bike properly and delivering power smoothly. The correct type of tyres for the conditions apply in just the same way as with any mtb but plus tyres really add nothing unless you're completely unskilled/uncoordinated and want to sit there like a sack of tatties and let the bike do all the work. 27.5+ ruins the handling of Emtbs just as badly as it does a non motorised mtb.
" Afaik, the problem with 27.5+ is getting tyres with strong enough sidewalls that don’t weigh a tonne. though, I can see them being popular on e bikes where weight isn’t a consideration. "
Switching to set of Maxxis minion 27.5x2.4/2.3 exo tyres saved 3lb over the OEM set up on my Emtb and absolutely transformed its handling for the better in every way.
I don't think so, the 'industry' declared war on the 26 in 2014... it was a bit of a Grenada (one for Wolf of Wall Street fans there).
If they feel the same way about 27.5 it will be obvious, there will be no doubt, if it happens then one Summer when they're rolling out the next year bike for September that year there will simply be no 27.5 in the range (bar a few niche fans and perhaps a Spesh type manufacturer who misses the memo).
Nope, the new, new, new standards will be wider tyres, a subtle change that just so happens to require a new frame, fork and wheel combo to achieve.
I also suspect 26 will make a come-back at some point, but of course it will be slightly different to before so we won't suddenly be able to full all our dusty old 26 stuff from the back of the shed because none of it will fit.
Steep and techy is exactly where I like a 29er, less chance of going over the bars, at least psychologically.
My Trek Top Fuel is great for xc racing but doesn't feel as nimble/agile as my SC 5010. There's no way I'd take my Trek down some of the stuff I'd take my 5010, yes the geo is different but the wheel size & inherent forces in a larger wheel to a smaller wheel make one more agile than the other.
Horses for courses.
<h1 class="post-title">Have 29ers finally won the wheel size war?</h1>
What a ridiculous question. It's like asking if 120 or 140 forks have won the war.
Conning barsteward
But they fit/work. What's the problem?
<h1 class=”post-title”>Have 29ers finally won the wheel size war?</h1>
What a ridiculous question. It’s like asking if 120 or 140 forks have won the war.
Obviously a bit highbrow for you
Switching to set of Maxxis minion 27.5×2.4/2.3 exo tyres saved 3lb over the OEM set up on my Emtb and absolutely transformed its handling for the better in every way
I can't imagine what they fitted it with then. I compared a 29 hope hoop fitted with a grippy Hans danpf 2.35 and a 27.5 2.8 minion dhf and found the + to be a whole 130g heavier, likely accounted for by the difference in tyre. Which incidentally I don't find flexy at 9psi.
Oh and to answer the op, I'm not convinced. Yet to try a 27.5 for any length of time, but my 29 chameleon sure takes some turning. Frankly it's not as much fun or quick in the tight twisty stuff I enjoy, though it is quicker on more sweeping/lumpy trails.
Ok it's predominantly USA but take the numbers of posts for 29ers in that forum vs the others from the screenshot below.
[img] 
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all that tells you is that people who ride 29r know less 😉
The Pinkbike Whistler Bike Park opening weekend poll only found 6% of the DH bikes being used had 29" wheels this year. Up from 0% last year of course, but there's a way to go there.
Got bikes with both wheel sizes. 29er makes an excellent mileage/speed bike, but it's not what I want on a 160mm bike, most of the time. Accelerating a 29er with decent DD rubber on feels like dragging the proverbial dead hooker, changing direction is also harder with the additional gyroscopic weight. I kinda like throwing the bike around, bouncing off stuff - 27.5" wheels are just better for that. Hell, my mate on his trusty 26" Reign still shames the rest of our riding group on their Slash/Rallon/WFO/Stumpie 29ers... (Take a look at Jeff Kendall-Weed's latest videos on the Ripmo and then go back & look at his HD3/HD4 videos. The Ripmo just looks ponderous by comparison, even though it's clearly a highly capable bike).
Different people have different riding styles. If I was still competing in Enduro's, I'd probably get a 29er, but I'm not so I prefer mid-size wheels.
like loads of others here, i started riding mountain bikes in the 80s. i had loads of bikes and was always interested in weird and wonderful stuff - trimbles / kliens / niskihi aleins /tomacs drop bar yeti etc...
all the wild experimentation was all under one wheel size though other than that weird Cannondale with the 24" rear wheel.
i never really thought about what difference a wheel size would make as it wasn't an option. i sort of messed about with running my thumb shifter upside down, weird scott at-4 bars and a wider front tyre but always figured wheel size was one of the few things bolted down - non-negotiable.
so getting a new bike 6 years back, it just happened to be my first 29er. being almost 6ft 2", i guess i fit into the slightly taller / longer legged end of the scale and i totally love it. the miles disappeared, my time on the bike doubled, i rode stuff id never managed up or down before. we are all different, ride different stuff and i suppose looking for something that works best.
and our bodies are locked down in terms of sizes, within that there has to be a sweet spot on the exact balance and proportion of that network of tubing and rubber we jump on top of. only when we try something new can we really work out whats best for us. whats too far (36er?) and what not enough...
giving customers all these wheel size options has clearly been a shot in the arm for the industry. and its provided feedback on what folk actually do with there bikes when you roll out the shop. and how often we all go back and buy something new. my guess is the industry just has everything on a rolling boil. the whole wheel size option/debate is a door that cant be shut now and that's a great thing for folk that love biking.
My Trek Fuel 29er is a lot of fun - its my first 29er and its a bike I always want to be riding. Handles great,climbs great and I can push it quite hard in the twisty stuff with confidence than my previous bikes.
I’m just not seeing it, I hardly know anyone who up here who rides one, most of my mates are into Enduro, off piste stuff, uplift days, hike a bike etc. None of my immediate riding buddies own one, and they’ve all bought new bikes in the last year or two.
Where as most of my riding group are moving/have moved to 29ers.
I have both a 27.5 and 29er (long travel full sussers), I like them both for different reasons and choose my weapon depending on the terrain I'm riding/racing. Feel lucky to have both and I hope they keep manufacturing both for choice.
Have 29ers finally won the wheel size war ?
No - that's why 27.5 exists. I was talking to a mate yesterday who's been mtbing for a couple of years (roadie before that), and he was saying he's looking to upgrade his 29er bike and wants to go 27.5", to improve the responsiveness etc. Never having ridden 29", I couldn't really comment beyond the marketing cliches of faster rolling, more momentum over obstacles etc, but it made me realise that 27.5" exists in response to a perception of issues with 29". So no, it hasn't won.
I just built a 180mm fully coil sprung 650B freeride bike......because harking back to the early 2000's is almost 80's cool now. It's a few pounds lighter than an early 2000s freeride bike though.
Got a chairlift to go with that?
Meh! I'll sell the Coil 36s and get an air 36 and 40 at somepoint, plus an air shock for the rear and a remote lockout. If I can only have one bike, it's going to be big and bouncy. One build will end up at about 33lb and the second cut down DH mode will be around 35lb.
Everyones 160mm enduro 29ers end up at 35lbs anyway, once tough tyres have been added, whilst this accelerates quite well because of the lighter wheels - better than my Reign did with cheap wheels.
N+1 bike will be a slack light stiff 650b hardtail with 130mm forks and a tonne of standover, which will be used for scaring old grannies, riding bmx parks and Swinley - the freeduro bike will be for BPW, Sheffield, Scotland, Revs and long weekends polluting the planet by flying to the alps.
Anyway, the new bike is ****ing awesome - but I'm not posting it because I don't want you arseholes recognising me. 😛
3” gazzaloddis probably had the same diameter...
Sounds awesome Raybanwomble, enjoy!
29ers have won the war for me due to what I ride and my height etc but that doesn't mean they need to win the war for everybody else out there. 😉
Anyway, the new bike is **** awesome – but I’m not posting it because I don’t want you arseholes recognising me.
Is it a Cotic?
TL;TR - short answer - no.
Look around average trail centre or weekend warrior area (Peaslake good example). Count the 29ers vs 650b. It's not the former, and the latter is selling big time.
Getting more popular in the AM/Enduro events though. XCer night group I ride with, mostly 29ers. There's definitely a growing market for it. I can't see the industry and retailers are ready to bin 650b when they've only just got over the switch from 26.
And as said, some of us are short-arses. As amazing as a 29er may be, they're too big for me. It's also a step too far on the low acceleration scale. 650b is already noticeably slower for me accelerating, but once up to speed it flies. I miss 26 at times though for acceleration (except when I ride my old 26er 😀 )
Does it really make a noticeable difference for acceleration? Has anyone run the numbers on this? surely the weight difference is tiny in comparison to weight of rider + bike, rotating weight or not.
Does it really make a noticeable difference for acceleration? Has anyone run the numbers on this? surely the weight difference is tiny in comparison to weight of rider + bike, rotating weight or not.
For the likes of us, yes, I agree, it's really negligible if anything. I recall Minaar saying last year that they didn't think the 29er was the be all and end all, as the 650B accelerated quicker anyway, seemed to pretty much be down to him having a bike that fitted him better.
Does it really make a noticeable difference for acceleration?
Sure. If you want it to.
The weight difference between a modern 26" and 29" bike is negligible. As I posted earlier: Cotic Soul - 12kg, Cotic Solaris - 12.5kg.
I don't have a 26" wheeled bike so can't compare (the Soul is my wife's) that but if I put 650b+ wheels/tyres on the Solaris then it is sluggish in comparison when accelerating but once up to speed then there's sod all difference, if anything the plus tyres "feel" faster as they then have the momentum. I haven't done any empirical tests though.
The rider height/size point is valid - not everyone is 6ft tall. If the bike fits and you like it, does it really matter what wheel size it is?