[Closed] Harsh rear shock after custom tune ??

I think you should ride the bloody thing and stop finding problems with it.

Eh I have rode it. I'm trying to set it up.

Just asking for feed back as never had a shock custom tuned before so wasn't sure what to expect.

F.f.s I sometimes wonder why I bother with this place.

Thanks for your very very helpful and informative post on rear shock set up though superficial.......

did you think to make the rebound a bit faster?

Well that's what I'm asking.

Mojo say to run it slow a d bear with it.

I tried that and wasn't enjoying it.

Do you think this is what is cashing it and should I speed it up a bit ?

it will feel harsh if it was formally too soft, you just need to get used to it

why not just try it over and over on the same trail, changing rebound/compression etc noting down the settings until it feels like a good compromise. No one setting will suit all trails though obviously, you need to find a happy medium. Only trial and error on your part can find that

Cashing..... Causing. Bloody predictive text.

Forks are ace though. Much better than the Fox's they replaced.

Did the allude to it needing to 'bed in' at all?

I reckon this is a case of 'trust the experts' and maybe you need to just get used to it's new feel.

I am not a fan of slow rebound, but who am I to argue with Mojo.

I would go over the same bit of track loads of times until you know it and it feels the same repeat-ably. (make it mixed, but short so repeating does not become nauseous)
Then repeat with some bracketing of the settings.

[img] [/img]

PS ignore the haterz, I have noticed that almost every thread you post generates some abuse. So you should be aware that if you are too transparent on here people will use it to score points and make themselves feel better about their own sad little ****ty lives. I am also heart on my sleeve, but just as happy to tell the lamebrains to do one.

PPS in my experience slow rebound leads to harshness, the shock will pack down really quickly and just feel locked out. I would start on zero rebound and bracket to half rebound, then work your way in from there. Most of my suspension has the rebound in the faster half, and I am devilishly handsome because of it.

Cheers toys19. Most helpful post i have ever received.

Would it need bedding in again. I wouldnt of thought so myself but who knows.

I dunno anything about bedding in. There is lots of myth and legend over suspension..

My only confusion is how in previous threads you have suggested to other owners that the bike needs a shock tune. But you now don't like show the bike rides post tune.

PLEASE don't take this as a dig!

Would it be beneficial to other owners/prospective owners to go and post and say that results have been inconclusive.

You better than most understand not wanting to waste a chunk of money.

I imagine some bedding in will happen.

Also, did mojo set the air spring for you?

One final point, really not trying to stir the pot or anything like that, are you sure what you're experiencing as harsh isn't just how it's meant to be?

IE your expectations of what "good" suspension feels like doesn't align with what good suspension actually feels like.

As someone mentioned above, it is now going to feel harsher than you were used to.

I'd leave the rebound setting where the pros have put it.

Mojo certainly know their onions.

I assume you told them exactly how you want it to feel.

I would leave it be and just get used to it.

I think toys19 has it really

I've never struggled setting the rebound in the middle, setting the sag to about 20-30mm and going from there.
Is guess if it's harsh it's either packing down or has to much pressure in it.
Oh, and bedding in... I reckon there's something in it. My forks felt rubbish for a ride or two after I fitted new wiper seals
They feel great now!

If it was blowing through the travel then i assume they will have increased the compression damping, you should be able to run less air pressure than before which may help with harshness. Repeatedly ride off a drop/jump as big as you the biggest thing during a normal ride. If you aren't using full travel you could let more air out.

Scruff good point, I forgot about setting the pressure in the first place.
I do this by setting static sag 25-33%, followed by Scruffs method, ie if the pressure that makes your static sag is too soft and you blow through, then up it a bit until it just bottoms on your biggest jump (or vice versa).

Jmatlock. What I said was that if you weigh anything north of 80kgs then the shock will benefit from a custom tune as the standard compression and rebound damping isn't suited to someone above or below that weight.

Fox can't send the shocks out suited to everyone can then.

There are also lots of threads over on mtbr alluding to the fact that the new trance has a more active suspension design than previous incarnations and a lot more people are find that it is blowing its travel.

Scruff.... I have put the same air pressure in as before as it wasn't mentioned not to. However now you mention it I never reached full travel today whereas I have before on the same track.

It feels to me like it's packing up if that makes sense.

With regards to recommending it to others, well it's stopped the bike blowing its travel as mentioned before. I need to ride more and get to grips with it.

If it is packing then there is too much rebound.

As in making it to slow to return before hitting the next bump.

Packing down would suggest it's not recovering from hits very quickly. So a slow rebound problem. Needs speeding up.

But I wouldn't claim to know more than the Mojo guys as they tuned it for slow rebound.

Do you ride alone? Can anyone else give you a second opinion?

Packing down to me means slow to recover from each hit.

Not sure what you really mean, harsh or packing down?

I rode alone today but normally with other riding mates.

Surely its the same thing. If it's packing down because rebound is to slow then it will feel harsh as there is no travel to absorb the next hit.

Suspension typically takes a while to bed in. Riding a new shock/forks for 2 hours and complaining about them being harsh is not giving you the full picture.

Ride the shock for ten hours and then see how it feels.

I have a set of sweeps that feel pretty rough right now. I expect it will take a few rides before I can judge how they are doing.

Also, you don't seem to have much of a clue what you actually want from a bike, so if it feels different you seem to jump on here and start saying there is something wrong with it.

You know how people test bikes Renton? They ride them for a good while and then have something to go on. Try an experiment. Ride your bike for a month without posting any threads about, my bike is too small/forks are rubbish/shock tune is wrong/Should I swap it for bike with a smaller reach, and see how you get on.

Packing down will make it feel harsh..

Surely its the same thing. If it's packing down because rebound is to slow then it will feel harsh as there is no travel to absorb the next hit.

If it feels soft on a single bump but gets hard on the way into a bumpy section then it is probably packing down.

Kudos nails it. But I assume will be called a bulky or insulted.

You don't give anything any time to bond with it, to learn the nuances of something.

Kudos. The shock isn't new. It's just had a tune to up the compression damping.

All the seals were nicely bedded in ta.

I was merely asking as mojo were saying to leave it slow.

Are you another one to jump on the have a dig bandwagon.

You guys aren't giving advice, you are being arseholes.

My advice was to get used to a new set up.

The bike has had new forks/shock tune and cockpit moved.

My suggestion was to set a baseline, get used to its set up, then make small incremental changes.

Toys is obviously the expert. And Renton is hell bent on ignoring Suspenion Experts advice.

Mojo said to leave it. There is your clue.

Not sure who that's aimed at toys.......

I've had quite a few tuned shocks from Mojo and TFT, I've only had to set the sag, twidle rebound I do it so it goes slow then the next click back you feel it instantly feel faster and I start there, never noticed if ther rear shock beds in!
And I don't under stand people having a go, at you , what gives them the right 🙁

Mojo seem to be big fans of slow rebound for some reason. It doesn't suit everyone. If in doubt speed it up!

'Initially the rear shock on my trance was blowing through its travel far to easily for the correct sag'
.
That sounds like it needs a bigger volume reducer in the air can rather than a damping issue, did Mojo fit one in the air can along the tune or is it still stock?
I had the same problem ages ago when I bought a custom tune rp23 for my Five Spot, the custom tune was ok but a low volume aircan transformed it,
Worth a try if it's not been done,

Not you MartynS. It was aimed directly Kudos and jmatlock.
jmatlock I said at the beginning "who am I to argue with mojo". But my experience is that lots of rebound leads to packing down and harshness.
I'm no expert.
I don't think renton is hellbent on ignoring them, it's just that his bike now feels harsh, so I think we should work on helping him get to the bottom of that.

renton, what specifically was the wording of mojo's advice, was it written or on the phone?

If rebound is set too slow it can “pack down,” where successive hits result in the wheel
getting deeper and deeper into the travel. This will result in not having enough travel to
deal with subsequent hits. [b]Most people don’t realize that a symptom of too much rebound
damping is harshness on compression.[/b] This is due to the bike riding deeper in the travel,
and your hands and feet working against higher forces in the springs. A common fix for
harshness is to reduce compression damping, but if you are packing down, it will exacerbate
the problem. Another symptom of slow rebound is your bike sitting too deep in turns
(especially fast berms). If your bike has the rebound set properly, you won’t be thinking about
rebound while you are riding.

from an article written by Fox's shock designer. http://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-The-Point-Rebound-Damping-2013.html

Also a great article here http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=60436

Are you another one to jump on the have a dig bandwagon.

Just offering advice based on experience. I freely admit to pulling your leg, as some of the questions you ask are barking (swapping your bike for one with a shorter reach when you are worried about the current one being too small)

Until you have ridden a bike extensively you are not going to have enough experience to make any firm judgements about it.

You can ask questions until the cows come home, but you will not get the answer you are looking for, as you haven't spent enough time on the bike to assess if it's actually a problem, or just getting used to the differences with a new bike.

Typically I think that just about every new bike I ride feels 'wrong' until I have had a decent amount of time on it. Same with a set of golf clubs, tennis racquet, car etc.

Renton,

bit confused I think you're talking about different things. You said at first it was going through it's travel to quickly, that isn't anything to do with rebound settings, that's pressure in a air shock or a stronger spring in a coil. If it bottoms out too easily add more pressure, remember sag settings are just a guideline.

Rebound ONLY effects the shock coming back to it's natural setting after a hit, so It's it feels like the bike is trying to buck you off, then you need more rebound damping, if it feels like it isn't coming back to full travel then you need a bit less. It might be that the shock also needs a bit of time to settle down, I wouldn't be too disappointed just now. Just note the settings and have a play on the same bit of trail until it feels about right. It's a compromise really between air pressure (or coil strength) and rebound and compression damping, and the limitations of the suspension design.

Sometimes it does feel like you have to be an expert on everything to post here, but trust me, there's a lot of folk who don't have the balls to ask the sorts of questions you do. Ignore the idiots chap, there's always folk on here who're willing to try to help.

that's pressure in a air shock or a stronger spring in a coil. If it bottoms out too easily add more pressure, remember sag settings are just a guideline.

Setting the sag is key to the geometry of the bike. If the sag is correct and you're using too much/little travel then it's the compression damping that you'll be wanting to adjust (assuming that the redound is correctly set to avoid packing down of course)

Toys19 this is what was printed on the form in with the shock when it was returned....
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I have been riding it and getting used to it.

I can instantly tell the forks are much better.

It's not my first full susser people. It's the one that's giving me most grief setting up though.

Sorry about all the questions but I thought that this was a biking community forum. Not a place where as toys19 puts it just be arseholes.

Legend has hit the nail on the head.

Pre tune i Was having to use a lot of air pressure to achieve the correct sag. Even then just bunny hopping up a kerb would use 3 quarters of the travel.

Post tune its much better at this and isn't using its travel so freely but mojo have set the suspension rebiund slow and I feel like it's harsh and packing down so ibwas merely asking if its the norm.

Renton.
First thing you need to do is get the pressure right.
Do this by setting to the recommended sag.
[b] Then ride the bike and adjust the pressure until you are getting full travel on the biggest of hits[/b]
Then [b] after[/b] you've done that start messing with the rebound.
There's only [b] you[/b] that knows how you want the bike to feel.
The only way to get to that point is by trying to understand what the bike does when you change one thing at a time.
Ride/ small change/ ride/small change.
Keep repeating this until it stops feeling better then go back a little.

Oh and try to keep it to one thread instead of multiply threads asking the same thing in a different way.
You'll get a lot better advice that way.

What is the travel in the rear? 140?

Erm ok but this is the first thread I've started about the rear shock.

Serious question... Now that it's had a tune for more compression damping do I run less air pressure then for a given sag.

What's the rear travel got to do with it ???

this is the first thread I've started about the rear shock.

Please try and keep it that way. 😉

First thing you need to do is get the pressure right.
Do this by setting to the recommended sag.
Then ride the bike and adjust the pressure until you are getting full travel on the biggest of hits

I wondered what sort of travel it had.

I have 110 at the back of mine, I weigh 96kg and a decent size big old school 'American' bunny hop will use a fair bit of travel as I have it set fairly soft.

Most of my riding doesn't involve drops or jumps.

I eas refering to you 'hop up a kerb used a lot of travel'

Depending in how much the bike had. That wouldn't be be uncommon.

Erm ok but this is the first thread I've started about the rear shock.
Serious question... Now that it's had a tune for more compression damping do I run less air pressure then for a given sag.

Changing the compression valving doesn't affect the spring rate, ie just set the pressure to wherever you need it for the sag

Singlespeedstu the point I'm trying ask about is that in the paperwork posted in the picture above mojo have said to run near enough full rebound and the shock feels like it's packing down.

OK I give up.
Stick to looking for someone to give you your magic setting.
It'll be right next to that moon on a stick.

They said try it in the hill before you decide. Well you've tried it, and it doesn't feel right, so either try some more or try it with the adjuster open a bit more and see how it feels.

Renton,
Remember the guy you rode with called John Young? Find him again and he'll help you set it up/tell you if there is anything wrong. He really knows his shit when it comes to suspension (not the others on here don't).
He is on Moray MBC and Pinkbike as JY and Betsie. Contact him and he will gladly help you out.
Matt.

Ok.

I will have a play with it and see if I can get it dialled.

They must have done something right as I've climbed to 4th fastest this year and 5th fastest of all time on one section of trail on strava.

I also knocked 8 seconds off my personal best on the run I was using to try and set the shock up.

Also I think the cockpit is sorted now as it felt spot on today. Just need to fit my dropper and it will be good.

Cheers .Matt.

If it is packing down then you can back off the rebound damping a little so it returns to its mid stroke faster and ready for another hit.

Or....as others have said ride it as is for a while and get used to how it now feels. I'm a firm believer that most FS riders don't ride their bikes properly and have them set up for comfort not performance. They like the sensation of being able to sit down and ride an armchair around the woods, when they send a shock away to Mojo or TF they are surprised at how firm it comes back....I think that's how it's supposed to feel personally.

Deviant.

I'm also in the group that doesn't like the arm chair feeling. Hence why indent it away in the first place.

What I would like it to do it respond to the terrain without it feeling harsh or packing down or on the flip side pogoing around.

Will stick with it and maybe increase it a click and see how it goes.

Agree with Deviant, it's for sticking the rear wheel to the ground, not being comfy.

Must be doing something right if you're setting fast times Renton.

Glad I ticked leisure cyclist when I sent my shock to TF.
I like it plush.
With my manky knee, plush lets me keep riding.

Agree with Deviant, it's for sticking the rear wheel to the ground, not being comfy.

Agree with both chaps.

When i got my old shock tuned the thing i noticed most was just how much better the rear end stuck to the ground. It's wasn't comfier to ride or sit on, just better going faster, for longer.

Were you asked any questions about riding style or weight? If you answered them honestly, then what they sent you shouldn't be too far off the mark, even if it feels odd. Perhaps a few psi either way or a click or two on the rebound, but personally I wouldn't speed it up fully as someone mentioned. Bad things can happen if you do that, especially if you like jumping 😯

Just ride it and get used to it like a few have already said.

It just sounds like Mojo set the shock up for you to beat the poo out of it, hence loads of rebound damping in order to still spring back in an orderly fashion when the shock is deep in it's stroke. It does remind me of running 10psi in White Tigers and thinking it was cool to run a rear shock in such a way that it took 3 seconds to fully rebound. Troy Lee cammo shorts for goal posts....

I sent mojo the info on my weight and the type of bike etc.

I asked to tune it so it didn't blow its travel and also asked if they could set it up to ramp up nicely towards the end of the stroke. I said I ride normal trails not downhill stuff and occasionally get airborne.

amongst the trolls and bickering I think you've got some good info, if it has just been serviced all the new o rings and seals in the shock will be tight and will loosen a little over a few rides.

They've changed the rebound shims so it recovers faster deep in the stroke and then slows down. If you speed the rebound up then it'll really only affect the lower travel portion.

If it doesn't feel right to you then the only way to sort it out is by riding the same travel over and over again and bracketing down to the best feel.

http://www.leelikesbikes.com/bracketing-a-2015-fox-36-rc2.html

Toys is obviously the expert. And Renton is hell bent on ignoring Suspenion Experts advice.

Mojo said to leave it. There is your clue.

Just because Mojo are "suspension experts" doesn't mean to say that there is only one school of thought in regards to suspension setup.

Some suspension tuners think that it's better to control a fork via compression.

Others think that it's better to have as little compression as possible and control the fork via the spring rate.

Some suspension tuners also prefer to control ride height primarily with rebound.

Avalanche, Bos, PUSH, Ohlins and Mojo all have different ways of achieving good results.

Secondly, a custom tune doesn't always get it right for the customer the first time round. They often only manage to get near to a general kind of tune, then the suspension has to go back in to be fine tuned. This is because everyone rides differently and as of yet, no one offers tuning done with telemetry. Someone who rides more over the front will need a softer compression tune and slower rebound, someone who rides over the back more will need harder compression tune and faster rebound yaddayaddayadda.

Arse.

Right...a bit more advice...

Ride the shock some more, give it time to bed in. Then take it to a long rocky downhill, with reasonably equal square edged hits found throughout the section.

1) Take note of small bump sensitivity (once bedded in), does it feel poor? If so, ask Mojo to back of the low speed compression a tad.

2) Does the shock feel harsh on the first square edged hit? If so, ask Mojo to either back off the high speed compression shims or reduce some of the volume spacers.

3) Does the shock only feel harsh after repeated square edged hits? If so, set the rebound faster. If that doesn't work, ask Mojo to reshim the rebound.

My guess is that Mojo have set the suspension up fairly firm as they figured you rode aggressively and also prioritized pedaling performance as you stated that you ride smoother trails.

Ignore all the dicks on here, if you went to a Moto GP paddock or a world cup downhill paddock you would find considerable variation in suspension setup between riders. You won't find Valentino Rossi being told by his Yamaha boss (at Ducati maybe) "listen to the suspension experts", if it doesn't feel right then the engineers try to find a way to cater to the rider.....and what makes riders faster is having a bike that they feel comfortable on.

Thanks for the info.

I'm going to start with shock pressure and sag as I set the air pressure to what it was before the tune thinking it would need the same pressure.

On one of the tracks I do there are 4 equally spaced root/bumps. first bump is fine and it progressively gets harsher and by the 4th it's like a hardtail.

It may look different to an observer but that's the best way of explaining how it feels on the bike.

All this is in decsend mode By the way.

Trail is very good for climbing etc. I never use the climb mode.

Oh and hora. Even though you haven't posted on this thread but decided to take the piss over on the chat forum. That's a pretty ****ish thing to do and slightly ironic coming from you as you are just as bad if not worse than me with bikes.

To all the haters .......

Would you expect a shock to come back with harsh rebound after being sent off for a compression tune and be happy with it.

If you despair of my threads that much then please feel free to ignore then rather than using them as an opportunity to make your sad little life's just the bit better by having a dig at someone that is asking for help.

Thank you to all those that have genuine info to pass on.

FFS! just turn the rebound adjuster until the shock returns at a speed you're happy with.

After setting the sag again, give those roots another go. If it still feels harsh on the last one, move the rebound two clicks faster.

As others have mentioned, because of the way it's been shimmed that might not actually help.

I don't know about Mojo but TF Tuned will take the shock back and retune it for free if you send it back within a certain time frame as they don't expect their tunes to be perfect all the time.

Sending it back to get it right is normal, a load of the posters on here are jerks. At the end of the day it's what works for you, not other people.

I will contact mojo tomorrow and see what they say. It might be a case of have a play with it for a month and see how it goes.

I'm going to start with shock pressure and sag

I knew exactly what I wanted from the shock thanks very much.

What I wanted was for it to not blow its travel so freely even on the smallest bump. In descend mode I couldn't tell what the shock was doing as it felt dead. Trail mode was to hard to use for rougher trail. Climb mode was fine.

With that in mind I spoke to mojo and explained the above and gave them my weight and bike info and also the type of trails I rode.

They suggested a better compression tune which has worked to help the shock not blows its travel and also not sit so deep into in its travel either.

The unexpected bit was how slow they recommended to run the rebound which has lead to me asking for advice from the decent people on here in the first place.

This is the first shock I've had tuned. It's not my first full susser having had at least 9 or 10 full sussers in the past so I have a bit of experience with shocks.

You're almost there.

Set the sag, anywhere from 20% - 35% seems to work for most, more sag for harder riding.

Ride that trail you mentioned with the 4 repeated big hits.

Gradually increase the rate at which the shock returns to its mid stroke buy backing off the rebound damping.

You should reach a point where the bike still feels good after that 4th hit and isn't bogging down like a HT.

If that doesn't work (and I reckon it will) send it back with instructions on how you want the rebound to perform.

You're not far from having a very nice shock, just some methodical tinkering and patience needed now.

This what you need to do Renton

1. Set sag to about 25-30% when you are in attack postion not seated, shock in descend, also make sure your fork isn't locked out. Put maximum rebound dampening on the shock.

2. Go ride this section where you feel harshness, after each run reduced the rebound dampening by 1 click until the harsness goes away.

If it doesn't then the tune probably doesn't suit you.

Will be going out tomorrow before work to have a play.

Thanks for the info gents.

Renton, youre getting an unfair hard time on here, which is unfortunate 😯 . sounds like some great advice in amongst the less helpful stuff. I am amazed you've had 9 or 10 full suss bikes though and aren't a dealer ! I've had 3 and I'm nearly 50 😀

Cheers Iainc.

I went through a spate of buying and selling specialized bikes a few years back as I was spending quite a lot of time out in Afghanistan with work so used to treat myself.

I did however keep my last full susser which was a Turner 5 spot for just over two years.

It had quite different angles to this bike upfront which is why I'm struggling with the fit side, however I think that side of thing is sorted now.

Just the shock side to sort. Most people say the fox ctd shock isn't the best but I can't afford to go upgrading it to something better so I thought I would invest the £40 it cost for the tune in it to see if it helped.

Is it really the best thing to do to tune the shock for one type of riding event?

Do it on an entire trail with a variety of features, tuning for one very specific type of event will very likely make the shock horrific for any other type of event.

As others have said, spend a good amount of time on the settings you have, re-evaluate how you feel about it again after a good 10 or so rides.

It sounds to me, in the most kind way possible, you're over thinking and being very rash in dismissing as it is. Maybe getting a little swamped by the myths and wives tales that seem to be around suspension too, again in the politest sense.

Right is always going to feel wrong if you've never had right before, it needs time.

and the banning has started 😀