[Closed] Hardtail - do I really want one?

After buying a hardtail im struggling to find love with a FS now. Put some reasonably fast tyres on there and suddenly the roads arent so dull and the descents and more fun, win win for me

Only one answer! YES. I ride both and love the extra grunt uphill and simplicity of cleaning after a mud run (had lots recently!) No down side for me......

I had a 2017 orange 5 with full fox factory suspension. Basicaly a dream build of mine. It was stolen and to replace I have baught a new cotic soul to replace it as I couldn’t afford to spend another 4-5k on a bike. Am I missing the orange, yes I do on some trails. Am I having less fun, No I’m having more fun on the hardtail. In my opinion fs is faster ht is more fun.

Yes.

Bike hardtails und full suspension bikes. Both great fun.

For me, hardtail: good fork with minimum 130 mm travel and tyres around 2.4 inch are key (25...30 mm rims). 27.5" is more playful - 29" a bit faster (but I like 27.5" bikes more).

2.6 inch tyres are getting really good - would try to get a bike which is prepared for these fat tyres (if you like to bike already now 2.6 inch rubber the rims should be around 35mm?). In combination with a good 130...150 mm fork?

Can't say if full suspension or hardtail is more fun. But would add always "more travel" and "fatter tyres" onto the hardtail. Take the 29" bike only if I plan very, very long daytrips where I like to cover long distances.

Hardtail stop you being lazy and make you a better rider.

Why not use a FS with rear suspension you can lock out for your HT fantasys.

My Scott Spark had the twinloc feature, you could switch it from fully open, trail, locked out from a bar mounted switch.  Brilliant.  Meant I could smash the smooth uphills like a HT, but cruise the bumps like a FS.  Bloody perfect.

You'll have no regrets if you choose right. Just bought a Whyte 909 with 2.8 tyres. It's the fastest and funnest bike I've owned.

You do, whether it’s a good idea or not remains to be seen. I like mine, but it’s hard work, and I miss my FS sometimes, but I like the fact that it’s there, it works and it doesn’t take much cleaning.

I agree with Trailrider Jim (are you the same jim from the facebook owners club?). I also have a 909 and it is simply brilliant. Beat lots of PB's at BPW on it compared to my 140mm trail bike.

Will be taking it when i am back there in a few weeks.

A hardtail is especially good if you are lazy at maintenance as there is slightly less to go wrong obviously.

Get one, it may suprise you how fun it is.

Hardtail stop you being lazy and make you a better rider

And the world is flat.

I have just bought a 901 today and am off to Swinley in the morning.  I'l let you know tomorrow!

Dogsby

All depends on what your riding tbh, local xc bridleways footpaths etc great for a hardtail riding anything more mountainous then maybe go FS. Just purchased a 2016 Trek ex fuel 9.8 myself for the rougher stuff but the Trek Procal 9.9 is a joy to ride on the majority of stuff but can take its toll on all dayers but local epics across the Clwydian ranges is ace on that

having both would only be a good thing

local xc bridleways footpaths etc great for a hardtail riding anything more mountainous then maybe go FS.

Not sure I completely agree with this. The very latest hardtails with dialled geo and wide tyres really do need to be tried to be believed. Arguably they can be more fun and satisfying on the biggest terrain, compared with a big enduro rig.

All depends on what your riding tbh, local xc bridleways footpaths etc great for a hardtail riding anything more mountainous then maybe go FS

What if I'm riding an open access woods, what do I need then.

You can ride a hardtail anywhere, it doesn't improve your skill by doing so it's just a different form of riding. You can ride down Snowdon on one if you wanted.

I've been riding 150+ bikes for nearly 20 years. I bought a 901 last year to add to my collection and it's bloody brilliant! More fun in local flatter rides and general mooching. I still wouldn't want to be without my Enduro bike for big mountain and bike park days, but I don't regret it one bit. And it was only a cheap one.

BITD I did 2 weeks in Morzine on a Ti Hardtail with 100m forks. Rode the Pleney, Swiss DH, Les Gets worlds & dual courses & the old Kona bike park etc....  It was awesome fun. The next year I hired a full sus out there & it was funnerer.

I currently own & love a 29er xc race Hardtail. Last bike was a Stanton Switchback, before that a couple of Transition Bandits in different wheel sizes.

All were loads of fun but interestingly over a whole ride there is very little overall difference in my Strava times. The fs were slightly faster downhill, the xc bike is quicker up. The Switchback was somewhere in the middle. I think that if I only ever intended to have one mtb & couldn’t afford to change on a whim something like that, a steel Hardtail, reasonably ‘on trend’ geo with a 140mm fork would be the ideal bike. I rode BPW, local trails, enduro races & 24:12 on it.

I'm having this debate too.  Got a Whyte s-150s, and have now decided a 905 would be the perfect stable-mate for it.  It doesn't matter what it'll be 'good for'.  Mainly getting out on bikes and staying sane (and maybe a bit less cleaning faff/wear and tear on those filthy mid-week night rides). Surely I'll save money in the long run as it'll be so well colour-matched and I won't be sucked in to buying any further kit to match it.

wear and tear on those filthy

I never get this. If you do 1000 winter miles on a HT and the same on a FS, what actually wears out? I've swapped 1 set of bearings in 10 years on FS bikes, costing £20. That's hardly worth mentioning is it? So the FS bike gets dirty, does it take longer to clean a bike with a shock fitted?

Yeah. I used to run a ‘winter’ bike and a ‘summer’ bike, telling myself that it saves wear to the nice summer bike.

Thing is that you then have 2 bikes that wear & the cost of buying/building/maintaining the winter bike could easily cover a couple of years worth of maintenance on the other bike, including suspension/bearing services.

It's defo worth it if you get the right one. I now have both and use them equally but have had HT's in the past that I've hardly used.

IMO you need to have two bikes that are similar enough to switch between but different enough to make it worthwhile. When I had my old HT (26", QR forks, very different geometry to my FS) I never rode it because ultimately my FS was better in every situation. When out on the HT I wished I was on the FS.

Now I have a 650b HT and 29er FS. The geometry is similar on both, as is the fit. The HT is set up with flats and a bottle cage so I can jump on it for a ride with minimal fuss where as the FS needs a camelback and SPD's so I use that for longer rides on the whole. The FS is XL which is probably my size but I got a large HT as I wanted something to chuck about. Both have similar width bars and length stems. Works for me and as said I use them both the same amount although I have the HT set up with mud guards etc at the moment for muddy rides.

Of course you want one. The best are brilliantly versatile, great fun and very capable under the right rider. I don’t think there’s a better mountain bike “experience” than fast, flowing single track being ridden on a good hardtail.

No, winters over, time for the full suss.

I have a cannondale f29. So out and out race bike. Great bike but hard going when I took it to the lakes. Last year I got a specialized fuse. The one with 130 reba and 1x11. This is the first  non race mtb I have ever had. It's ace.3" tyres with 14psi and the reba feel almost perfect.

I did used to own a Turner flux fs but this was classic xc geo with just 120mm of travel.

I think the chubby tyres are a half way house between a little travel out back fs  bike.

Head angles not silly either so it's ok on the flats and climbing.

....I'm still thinking about a trek ex though.haha

East London!.... Mountain Biking!..... does not compute,,,, error error error......please reposition main residence and reboot.......

Get one you will not be disappointed! I have had several FS bikes over the years and always end up back on a HT. Modern trail HTs are so good that there is nothing that can't be ridden on them.I am currently lucky enough to have a HT (Chromag Rootdown) and a FS (cotic Rocketmax) and am seriously considering selling my Rocketmax Frame and building another HT with the rest of the components.

You really should want one, currently own a carbon Mondraker dune and an Orange crush. I find the Orange is just as fast and just as much fun to ride on 75% of the trails I ride, although you will feel it more afterwards, with the bonus of needing far less maintenance. Originally bought as a winter bike but it's so much fun I've ridden it far more than I planned to

I don 't see the point really in having two bikes really. Either have a hard tail or FS. If you go and buy a Hardtail now its only spending money that could go into upgrading parts on your FS...I'd rather have one bike spec'd upto the hilt than two average spec'd bikes. Different if you want two different types of bikes e.g. one general trail bike and one DH bike or a fat bike for example, but having a trail FS and trail HT seems a bit silly to me.

But then again it's bikes....since when did common sense come into it. If you fancy one, get one.

Another one for 'if you want one, get one' here, but I love nice HTs. My Switchback'll do anything I'm brave/stupid enough to ask it to.

Above, couple times mentioned: Whyte 909 with 130 mm fork, 2.8 tyres, 35 mm rims

Yes - this is one of these very, very neat fun-hardtails ... don't own one of those - but this is the recipe for fun.

(also I'am still a real fan of Deore 2x10 drivetrain. But this Whyte 909 - with 1 x 12 - looks like a great, great machine! I use old frames and put a long travel BOOST fork in and bike fat tyres on the front and more narrow ones on the back (frame limited...) But if 2 k burn in the pocket the Whyte is a veeeery good pick I guess.)

I've got 3 bikes right? An Orange 5, a road bike & an old HT. I've said it again & again, if I could only have one bike it would be the HT.

HTH. (Hard Tails Help) 😉

HTH

Hard Tails Help:

haha. I couldn't decide! I love all my bikes.

(and build a new one right now)

Similar boat to a few of the discussions above, I’ve a 2012 zaskar that has always felt a little small for me, and any time I head out I tend to ride the FS instead.

Thinking now that I’m going to buy one of the long slack HT’s to pay with at the likes of Swinley, or Leith Hill.

i think that everyone who has one seems to think they’re a lot of fun, and let’s face it, that’s certainly what I’m looking for... I’m too old and drink too much beer to be chasing strava KOM’s

let us know how you get on OP

I took my new 901 on its first outing around Swinley not having had a HT for some years.  It turns out that you do really want one!  Outstandingly good ride.  1x, some big chunky and marvellous geometry make it more fun that my FS.

Dogsby

Absolutely do not buy a hardtail. Strava proves it. End of debate.

Default choice should be hardtail unless it's rocky.  Speaking as a mostly FS rider.

Why? Why should it?

Because there is no better feeling than hanging on for life as you bomb past the group on fs and they look at you in awe of your superior riding skills.

Thanks for all replies, I've gone and bought a.........

A lot of love for the 909 as well , ive got a Torrent .same geo to be fair  , running 140mm yaris and a 1x11 with 45mm rims and 2.8 maxxis dhfs   , the bike has a slack ish 66.5o H/a   and 9-10 my full bounce gets left at home ,  I would ride this anywhere from the Peaks ,bike parks and the Higher stuff in the lakes . plus and 29 wheel sets make it a canal cruiser and a lake land monster

Because there is no better feeling than hanging on for life as you bomb past the group on fs and they look at you in awe of your superior riding skills

That's only because the guys on the FSs are too far ahead.

I'm all for a nice HT but the garbage spouted on here that they make you quicker or better or are still comfortable is just ridiculous.

If you want one buy one,

fwiw, i bought my surly to go with a pair of tyres that I already owned, if i can justify that, surely you can get a HT if you fancy one?

I’m all for a nice HT but the garbage spouted on here that they make you quicker or better or are still comfortable is just ridiculous.

Demo a 2018 sorted one like a 909 and then pass judgement. No one's suggested they're quicker or better all-round, but there are circumstances where they're more enjoyable to own and ride.

I've hit the "buy it now" button on a Whyte 901, and should be ready to pick up in the net few days.  We'll see, its got some chunky wide Maxxis Forekaster tyres in 2.6" which might defeat the objective in the 1st place and may need to swop out for something lighter / faster rolling.

Different strokes and all that. I’ve tried both over many years and currently own a Stif Morf. I just prefer the ride of a HT your mileage may vary.

Mainly ride natural trails in the Peak District and surrounding areas.

I’m all for a nice HT but the garbage spouted on here that they make you quicker or better or are still comfortable is just ridiculous.

I think riding different bikes sometimes makes you faster.

Riding a hardtail teaches you to take smoother line choices and generally do more of the work, which then means on a FS bike you can go even faster as the bike is only having to deal with the stuff you really can't deal with (rather than riding a FS and learning what the minimum work you have to put in to achieve the same speed as the bike in front of you) .

Riding a FS bike teaches you to ride a lot quicker generally (reactions, straighter line choices) , and maybe teaches some more extreme line choices (by making them easier) that you can then try on a HT, and then you can do again on the FS even faster, it's a virtuous circle.

Heck I even took a BMX round Swinley, it was utterly rubbish but by being rubbish did improve my cornering (because just passively leaning it into a corner just didn't work on small wheels and almost slick tyres, you pretty much had to be ready for both wheels to slip).

Even a road bike has it's advantages.

I've only owned hardtails, initially on the basis that i'll eventually buy an FS when I can afford/justify one worth having. I've ridden decent, sorted full-sussers on decent trails and spend the first 30 mins luxuriating in the ride and how different it feels and then spending most of the ride sat down in places i'd usually be stood up, thinking that I should get one sooner rather than later, because it's so bloody comfortable.

But I really love my hardtail, and it doesn't limit the type of riding I do, so it's not the end of the world if I never get a FS, but I know there is a world of sitting down luxury out there waiting....

then spending most of the ride sat down in places i’d usually be stood up

This is definitely true; I like hardtails and I'd happily get another but FS is quicker pretty much everywhere offroad.

I like the squishy comfort in my ageing years!

I mostly have hardtails and I low-key prefer them for most things. BUT if you tend to feel beaten up on bike rides or you've got back problems, weak core stability, quite like to sit down...Any of that sort of thing then they're potentially a bit of an issue. I've seen several mates in their 40s spend good money on a nice hardtail for all the reasons bandied about in this thread, then ride it twice and basically realise it hasn't got any rear suspension and sell at a huge loss.

🙂

I have one, every now and then i swing a leg over it and take it out, have amazing fun and use it again for the next handful of rides, then i get back on the luxurious full suss i wonder wtf i was playing at!!

always handy to have...

I’ve just built up a rigid fatbike, which is a laugh, but also got some 29x2.4 wheels for it which is ace as it’s a refreshing change from my fs bikes which range from 100-160mm. Plus I’ll realise I can get through stuff at the same speed as the fs, which then encourages me to go faster on them, then the cycle repeats...

I've only ever had one bike at a time. I've see-sawed between HT and FS.

Clockwork - Sub5 - Niner EMD - Orange ST4 - Sanderson Breath - Marin Nail Trail.

Sons all have FS.

You make a choice and pay your money. I miss the ST4's ability to just hover bike over rocky tracks, at the end of a long day. I miss the Sub5's ability to just swallow bigger hits.

I love the Sanderson's sprightly and immediate reactions, I love the new Marin's stability at speed, light weight and speed on most trails.

It's cheaper to maintain (apart from Sub5 all our FS need new bearings about annually, so that is Superlight, Zesty, Stumpjumper, ST4 and Fuel)

Yes a FS is faster on gnarly trails, but 80% of the time I can keep up. Deeply satisfying overtaking big travel bikes on the Sanderson in the Alps last year... 😎

I'm happy with my HT, the boys wouldn't be without the FS....

Interesting comment about the fat bike. I've got one with a bluto on it (Cube Nutrail) and it's quicker than my full suspension trail bike. I've got a Cannondale F29 too which tends to get used for winter slop but whilst I've been thinking about getting a bike like the Whyte 909, the fat bike still puts a huge grin on my face every time I ride it.

Been thinking about converting it to 29plus for next winter so might give that a go.

Give it a try painey, It’s (not at all) amazing the difference that 6lbs off and half the rolling resistance makes...

I've generally had both Fs and HT over the past 2 years - now down to 1 bike, and have settled on a short(ish) travel FS. Cotic Flare - I've had Soul's and really like the geometry, general feel and type of riding they're good at (a bit of everything). But, inevitably I feel a bit beaten up on a hardtail on rocky, rooty, or just bumpy hilly stuff. And at my level of fitness FS is faster on bumpy uphills.

I think a short(ish) travel, fun, p'oppy', taught FS is where it's at for me for general 'mountain biking'. Bridleways, hills, natural singletrack, some endyooroish type trails, odd trail centre.

I fully expect another HT to appear when finances permit it..........

If you can afford both then do it. I have a fs and ht I rode both in Scotland last winter and both where equally fun just depends on how you want to ride .

I bought an orange Crush a couple of years back and have done just under 2000 miles on it . I really cant see past it for comfort . Really wanted a whyte 905 but got the crush instead. Almost swapped for my sons pals Trek Fuel on a whin a few months back but so glad I didnt. Im not the bravest rider but the hardtail does everything I need and more. Im going to stick either some Yaris or Rev's on it next.

I love FS but hate hardtails. I really love my rigid bikes though. Fatty and Cannondale Trail 29 for the wins.

Taking the Bird Zero demo bike out for a ride this evening... The marketing blurb seems to have really worked on me, and I'm looking to see what I'll have more fun on rather than which is fastest.

But what BigDummy says resonates and worries me a little; I'm just hoping my body isn't too broken in it's old age to enjoy a hard tail again

*double post

****ing shitty forum

Ah Bollocks i'm 41, I've only ever owned and ridden hardtails.

I've constantly switched between the two, and there is no 1 true bike for me i feel.
however i settled with the new BFe; and two sets of wheels.
35mm rim + big tyres for the "Enduro" days - and 27mm rim + normal(ish) tyres for "trail" riding

150mm travel Pike.

This seems to be a pretty good combo for me for now, I've ridden trail centres, singletrack, steep enduro tracks and the lakes, and the BFe was more than capable!

OP go for it, 47 yo here, and have only ever had HTs.  I went from a pretty ancient Cove Handjob to a Slackline last year and suddenly experiencing all the design changes from the last decade (1x11, lower BB, slacker, wider bars and short stem) was a revelation although I seem to be destroying back wheels a lot more now than I ever did (and lets face it HTs just look better).

I can't seem to get on with hardtails. I put my fatbike back to rigid over the winter and am tempted to leave it that way. Love full suss too, but something about the way hardtails only ever get steeper when you descend combined with the hammering of my rear just doesn't work for me. Some people clearly love them though.

Funnily enough I was just watching the following video on a channel I subscribe too and my jaw was on the floor with how the one lad is riding his Orange Crush. Shame the colours are a bit washed out but it is impressive stuff never the less. If you are in any doubt then watch some of their other videos to know how well the guy on the FS doing the filming can ride.....

And another in better colour. I am glad we don't have trails like that over here. 🙁

It's not open to debate though in that context, some people are just brilliant.  That doesn't mean ALL people can ride harder and trickier terrain on a HT, it doesn't mean they'll be quicker on a HT, it doesn't mean they'll improve as a rider because they're on a HT..

It just means some bloke somewhere is brilliant.

It just means some bloke somewhere is brilliant.

Naww, thanks, I do try, nice of you to notice 😘

The whole ruined back must get a full suss isn’t necessarily true, I thought the same and have 3 full suss bikes but spend most of my riding on a singlespeed hardtail and I’m about to transfer all the parts on one full suss to my old Kona Steely.

I’m definitely slower on either type of bike if I ride one or other too much, lines change, bottle changes and on the hardtail it can be easy to think ‘I won’t do that jump/drop/black line as I’m on the hardtail’.  Back wheels take a bit of a hammering too.

After riding the hardtail too much, the full suss’s feel unwieldy and generally hard work initially. Also pedal strikes start being a thing again.

‘I won’t do that jump/drop/black line as I’m on the hardtail’

That's where the rigid with regular 2.1" tyres and no dropper comes in.

@gaz.dick do you find a big difference between the two setups?

I'm just building my new BFe with a 150mm Fox 34 and a set of regular-ish width rims (Hope Enduro's) but i was toying with getting some wider wheels and 2.5/2.6 tyres too.

Initially running a Minion DHF 2.3 on the front and Crossmark II 2.25 on the rear so a middle-ground setup really.

My 2 off road bikes are a HT and a rigid SS. If I HAD to sell drop one I'd keep the HT, but for the local gloop and tame stuff I find the rigid SS to work well.

I have no need for a FS bike for the sort of riding I do