[Closed] Hardcore hardtails

456SS, can't beat it for the price.

Orange P7/Cotic Soul?

Steel rules.

Cove Sanchez.

Chameleon

Banshee Paradox

Chameleon for hoppity, hard core fun.

ns surge is great.
i've got one. nuff said.

"Cove Sanchez"
What? I thought that was a dirt jump frame?

If you're starting from scratch your best bet for decent value might be going for complete bike for eg like:
Marin Rocky Ridge (top of the range):
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Kona Five-O (2 models):
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Genesis Abyss (or the steel Alptitude):
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NS bikes Core (1 or 2):
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chammy !

Sold my Cotic BFe as it was too good for me 😳

I was in the same situation and got a Orange P7 Pro about a month ago - it is awsome DH and feels solid. I have it with the Fox Float fork which was an upgrade but well worth it - this frame can take a longer travel fork which some hardtails arent set up for geometry wise. I could have afforded an entry level full susser but opted for a top end hard tail. I have no regrets with this bike!!!

DMR Trailstars worth a look

Orange Crush or Marin Rocky Ridge (I went for the second one and love it)

BFe/Dialled Alpine/NS Surge/Stiffee/Chameleon/456/Bluepig/MMBop/Tran sition TransAM.

Take your pick, like as not they'll all be fine.

And the Sovereigns down to 500 odd quid now.

oh bugger it... i'll post my alpine again... i love this bike 😀

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Cove Stiffee, Santa Cruz Chameleon, Marin Rocky Ridge Genesis Core(?)

The new BFe, obviously.

BLue Pig

Hardcore Hardtail you say?

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Probably a bit beyond what you had in mind, however either a Trailstar or an Exalt would make a good bargain bin thrasher frame...

Gonna get me an NS Surge soon as my RM flow has a crack, she has done me proud though...

rj; where are evil sovs £500 BTW?

simply_oli_y - Member

ns surge is great.
i've got one. nuff said.

Any chance of a pic Oli?

I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these frames myself right now, to save my full sus over the winter (Rear shock WILL need a service, and all the bearings will need replacing if it gets ridden through the winter grime). I'd be building it with Fox 36's and some reasonably hardcore kit, and the NS Surge looks ideal to me... Well, not as ideal as an Evil Sovereign, but the Surge is less than 1/3 the price!

Another Rocky Ridge fan here, I've since fitted bigger tyres, gone ghetto tubeless and dicked about with the handlebars/seatpost, and what i've ended up with is amazing fun on downhills, but climbs ridiculously well, perhaps better than my dedicated xc hardtail...

Dialled Prince Albert anyone???

That DMR looks great are they rockshox judy dho up front?

You can't go wrong with any of the above, I have a new style chameleon frame for sale in the classifieds.

yea, here you go.

domains are borrowed, something slightly lighter would be nice.
can wander a little, climbing with forks at full travel. so better with talas over van/float. but i'm sure you'll manage.
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Chromag Stylus - £585 on CRC
Truly a real hardcore hardtail!

Not a Soul, they're great but they're not that hardcore. Though a bit more hardcore now that they're warrantied for 140mm, I'd still want something a wee bit slacker. 456SS or Mmmbop is what I'd be looking at, personally, but there's all sorts.

Oli, that's the Large rather than the Medium I assume? How tall are you? I'm 5ft10 or therabouts. Thinking the Medium (15.5") would be right for me, with a 410mm Thomson post (inline)...

Forks would be 36 Floats, but I've got used to riding my full sus bike (Giant Reign X) with these up front uphill, I just run an inline post and I'm quite adept at bending my arms a lot and leaning forward whilst climbing! Are those Domains you're running the 115-160mm travel version? And how do you find it as a general use "XC" bike (for lack of a better term), not just for throwing off things? I've got an XC hardtail for taking out on more specific XC rides, but if I'm out messing about for a few hours, inevitably you're going to have to do some up and along as well as just down...

Chromag Stylus - £585 on CRC
Truly a real hardcore hardtail!

With a hardcore price too!

Very nice, but at that price I'd still have the Evil Sovereign every time. In fact, I'd have a Cotic BFe at 200 odd quid less than that Chromag to be honest!

I can't recommend a Surge enough, why it was me who introduced Oli to one (probably). I spent a summer in the Alps doing XXXC so there was lots of brutal climbing and awesome descending and it was a dream. Run mine with coil u turn pikes. Climbing is mint.

Sam, just buy one. (Assuming it's you).

That DMR looks great are they rockshox judy dho up front?

Taking the piss?
If not they're older model 7" Boxxers with a bad rattle can paint job....

Taking the piss?
If not they're older model 7" Boxxers with a bad rattle can paint job....

sorry i honestly thought they were, still years ago I'd have walked over hot goals for a set of judy dho

yea thats the large. i'm just over 6'1. and like my bikes long.
medium would suit you fine.
yea wind down forks, and good for general riding,. done 70km days on it without too much worry.

jcrompton did indeed introduce me to it. banging good fun it is. our mate has a sovereign (bastid) and while its lovely, its 3 times the price (on the new tange tube set). and not that much better.

Orange crush or Sub Zero

Dialled Prince Albert - good on everything from xc trails to downhill courses:

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Orange Crush 😀

dmr exalt if you want to save pennies.

dialled alpine if not.

i`ve heard good things about ns bikes too.

Thanks stompy, rj, rs, Scott and Van for the Prince Albert and Alpine recommendations.

Prince Alberts are in short supply at present (only large/19" sizes left then no more until next year) but the new Mk2 Alpines arrive this week 🙂

Something a bit different - Commencal Ramones

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Actually while I’ve posted up my Exalt I wouldn’t advise you to get one unless you’re after what is essentially a DH bike without a rear shock… I find it more fun than any full bouncer I have ever owned,

Do you really want to run a silly long fork? (6” +) or are you after something which like you said can do a bit of climbing and has a sensible tougher 4-5” fork?

The Exalt is a bit too slack for anything more than DH use (mine is used purely as a DH bike, road cassette, silly forks, etc), plus it’s I think it over a pound heavier than the Trailstar frame…

Trailstar with a Pike is a pretty tough, pretty cheap “Hardcore HT” but seeing as this is STW you’ll probably buy a 456 which would do the job about as well… best tool for the job is probably a Dialled Alpine…

How hardcore do you want?

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This is my unbreakable... seatpost at full extension for the ups, and drop it away for stunts, jumps and silly stuff. I've broken more stuff than I care to remember but this is my nemesis... but I'm trying.

Weighs about 34lbs but it does have 200mm 6pot ti brakes, 2.5" DH tyres and Diabolus finishing kit.

point243 racing do a very similar frame - check out www.balfa.co.uk.

Like a love-struck teenager I still miss this, but sadly its frame turned into the receipt for two weeks nursery bill for the children...
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Not great for pootling about on, but thrash it & by god it was simply brilliant.

Oooops.

Got a KOna Five-O frame and built it up burly, Saints, Pikes etc and very impressed with it, not that heavy and rides nicely, climbs alright and is a blast downhill.

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ridiculous, specific HT downhill bike.

cant wait to get my summer season, gonna use it for heavy trail bashing, and toying with entering some "miniDH" races on it too 🙂

currently mourning the fact its not slot dropout 🙁 (too much time to think about it before it arrives)

That belongs in a circus.

love that evil!!

I'd keep an eye out for an 07-08 Sub Zero, fantastic piece of kit, rumor has it that they were thinking about bringing it back (along with the Patriot), here's hoping!

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mmmmmmm.

Ahem.
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james - Member
"Cove Sanchez"
What? I thought that was a dirt jump frame?

Can be built up as a dirt jump or a heavy duty trail bike. Can take a 130mm fork.

Cove Stiffee,

Got one for sale here: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-17-cove-stiffee-fr-frame-pixie-blue-3

Andy

Currently getting a coat of paint in Canada, plus getting the Chromag seatpost, saddle, handlebars,stem and quick realease.

Can't wait to get my grubby hands all over it 🙂

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140mm Vanillas up front, will be plenty hardcore enough for me.#

😀

Rode a SS and an Alpine.

*I* preferred the Alpine, significantly so. However, there's a significant price difference between the two. I sold the SS to a mate who loves it and several other guys have them and regular 456s. All think they're great. If money / budget is the deciding factor it would seem a no brainer - SS.

When the Evil Sov's first came into the country (ish) I test rode one (same one as STW tested). It was lovely but in the build / components etc it seemed a bit portly. The Alpine has come closest to the Sov, IMO. Oh, and the price of the Sov' was just insane.

I'm surprised at how well the Alpine rides in general, everyday sort of rides. In this respect I think it's a suprisingly good all rounder. I used to ride a 17 (17.5") MkI PA and I think the Alpine is quite different (to those also recommending it as a hardcore HT). Although fair play the Alpine is a 15.5/22 so quite different in sizing. I think the breakage rate on both is tiny to almost nothing so they're both plenty strong (Mike's site used to have some stuff about his 4X riders using small PAs for racing).

Currently though everything else is sitting unused and unloved in favour of the recently rebuilt mighty Kobe 😎

cookea - triple crowns on your dmr? That is'nt hardcore just plain bonkers

the head tubes gonna come off anyway, so might as well make the most of it 😉

Genesis Alpitude for sure-steel is lovely and geometry is spot on. I have had a P7 (with a rolloff-which is for sale by the way), a Lynskey ridgeline-still got but prefer the steel-feels more springy, had a Rocky Mountain aluminium core built up for trail riding-too harsh.
We've got 09 Alpitudes on the hire fleet just now and they will be available to buy at £950 after 30rides.
I can honestly say its the best hardtail I have had. Try one.
Emma-Hub Glentress.

voodoo bakka is another option.

all "hardcore hardtails" secretly aspire to be a [url= http://www.sinisterbikes.com/ridge.php ]Sinister Ridge[/url].
fact.
unfortunately, none of them comes close.

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best hardtail ever.

T45 is a good material for strong frames as you can use a bit less of it.

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One of these pretty much fits the description. Added to the Price/weight/warranty ..

I spent a summer in the Alps doing XXXC

I cant believe your still trying to push that term, you must be totally stoked on your RAD skillzz dude.

Samuel, you little bitch, get a Surge!

Or, if I end up strapped for cash you can buy my new Evil DOC off me and we can be evil buddies. If you can find a DOC my new one doesn't feel too different to the sov- different enough, but it's still mental downhill.

this....
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has been a wicked trail/jump/all mountain HT for me. And cheap.
slot drop-outs, and alfine'd up.

Bumhands, I absolutely love your Curtis, it just looks so right! HELL of a lot of money to spend on a hardtail frame though... But very very nice.

For my sins, I popped out to the shop earlier and bought a copy of MBUK for the first time in months (I know, I know, sat at home with bugger all to do this week!), and lo and behold if they're not doing a steel hardcore hardtail grouptest this month... The 4 frames as follows...

NS Surge
Transition Trans Am
Cotic BFe
Evil Sovereign

Well Bugger me! Total bike porn! 😛

I'll have one of each please if anybody's buying... 😉

so which one won?

evil sovereign's are awesome frames, (had 2 so far). but it seems that they are now so cheap, cos they are mass made with 4020 chromoly, instead of the older reynolds 853 front triangle, and 725 rear triangle. if you can , keep an eye out for 2nd hand one.
failing that, the dialled bikes alpine, is pretty much identical to the sovereign. the only thing is it has not got the adjustable dropouts of the sov. but at £360 and amazing purple colour, i know where my money is going, just need to grow some b#lls, to ride it as it should.

The Alpine might look like a Sovereign but last time I checked, the geometry of the 2 was quite different (i.e. Alpine has slacker head angle and steeper seat angle).

Alpine has gone up a bit in price this year (now £380) and the purple is no more. New colours are Kawasaki green and translucent red.

Alpines have a slacker h/a on them, and it does make a marked difference to the ride- the sov is more "involved"- you see that as either a good thing or a bad thing, but for me, I like muscling the bike around rather than it being a total steamroller. Makes it a better climber too.

I'd normally say go for the alpine, but I'm a bit of a brand tart and when an Evil DOC or Faction is about£70-£100 more new you might as well, eh? A touch slacker, but a lot of fun.

Can't see the Sov or DOC on Evil's site anymore. Has the Faction replaced those 2 models?

Another vote for the NS surge, have one myself and love it. Not the lighest bike but certainly a nice cheap option. The newer 09 models are a bit lighter than my 08 and have iscg tabs also.

Mine 🙂
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Mike- they aren't on the website, but they do still do them. I don't think the website's been updated for months now, but there is a new 2009 DOC made of Tange Prestige rather than 853 that costs £600 rather than the previous mental prices. The Faction and the DOC are running side by side by the looks of things- odd, since they're quite similar.

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my fully-geared HCHT [less core than those above but core enough for me] :

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Orange P7 Pro. Bought one two years ago, changed the tyres to Hutchinson Toros and now it's a beast. Bought a thudbuster for it last week though cos I'm 30, so that takes it out of the HH category.

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Works well with big volume tyres (2.4 NN's) and lots of sag - the Talas is very handy too.