[Closed] hammerschmidt !!!!!!

yep, all of us, aren't you?

not yet........
sarcasm and your intent duly noted.

I think the engineers here have determined that we have

the wrong kind of mud

I am trying to think of a better and more derogatory / derisive to say - overpriced unnecessary tat. But I cant think of any.

well I had a quick bash on one around a car park and it was amazing. I got used to is very quickly and could immediately see how great it would be out on the trail. It's a little overpriced at the moment but it won't be long until the price comes down, and others get in on it - competition is healthy.

why was it amazing? could it catch falling buttered toast?

deadlyhifi

It's a little overpriced

Yes, just a tad.

What's the point of it? Re-inventing the wheel. no?

Had a look/play with one on a Marin in a bike shop earlier this afternoon. Has to be said, I'm mighty impressed. OK, the price is ridiculous, but as soon as more people "want" one then the prices will start coming down.

Has to be said though, not that impressed with the cranks themselves. Nothing special, not hollow arms or anything, and uses an ISIS style of fixing iirc. When/if shimano get in on the act, use a hollow BB axle, hollow forged arms, a decent non-SRAM shifter too, and drive the price down loads, then you can put me down for one for definite. As it is, the price and the SRAM shifter is going to stop me buying one, though not admiring it.

Also, the thought of running a Shimano Alfine hub with a Hammerschmidt crank setup, to give you 16 gears with the equivalent of 22/36 rings and 11/34 cassette, REALLY REALLY REALLY appeals to me. 16 gears yet not a derraileur in sight!

Why does MrNutt bother replying to any posts? Has nothing helpful to say...

very good point, beautifully & ironically illustrated.

That was quick! Pointless - but quick.

touché 😆

For me the Hammerwhateveritscalled looks a pretty good idea, but when/if it takes off is limited because retro-fitting it is going to be difficult as it requires ISCG chainguide mounts. I think it may even be ISCG 05 which will limit the use even further.

perhaps this would help: [url= http://www.sicklines.com/2008/08/21/preview-truvativ-hammerschmidt/ ]CLICKY[/url]

quick recap:

exposed cable routing
weight disadvantage
possible "wrong mud" trap

6/10 must try harder

I've a bonus due soon and was considering buying a set. I'll probably buy them from the US (via my brother who lives out there) as the rumoured UK prices would require me to sell a kidney.

MrNutt in helpfullness shocker. Good lad!

"16 gears yet not a derraileur in sight! "

I'd buy that system, apart for the fact it would weight more than, errrrrrrrrrrrr
well just baout everything?

Why not just get a rolhoff, would be a similar price, lighter, with a bigger spread of gears? When someone makes a BB mounted rolhoff quality shifing system that gets withing a stones throw of the weight of a derreilieur sytem, then i'l jump on the bandwagon.

Come one engineeers, theres a BMX standard BB size just waiting to be exploited!

"What's the point of it?"

I think:
+ shift without the need to pedal
+ shifter doesn't have to set up very finely to work
+ instant shifting from/to overdrive at the click of the lever
+ shifts under whatever pedalling load (think going up a steep uphill)
+ 'better' chainline as set up for one ring, meaning don't have to worry about having a diagonal chainline (eg. both little rings, or both big rings)
+ Increased clearance (is the size of a 24T ring)
+ a single ring means the chain should be run shorter (and with a short cage mech) means less chain slack (to deal with less change in ring sizes), and so should stay on better
+ has a built-in upper chainguide

However:
- a lot of bikes are designed to pedal without bobbing in the middle ring. Because it uses a 22 or 24T tooth ring, a lot of frames won't pedal very well with it, whether in normal 22T, or overdirve (22T ring spinning 1.6 times faster than the cranks)
- Heavier than an equivalent AM/FR setup (despite what they say)
- Expensive
- Internal drag (especially in overdrive mode)
- needs ISCG frame mounts (few non-FR/DH/DJ frames have them)

Something like that

According to a review in the mag from a year or two ago I seem to remember A rohloff doesn't shift well under load, has a twist grip shifter, aren't indexxed ever so well in some ratios, are a bit weighty (all in the wheel throws the bike balance out a fair bit), require a wheelbuild, cost £700 as well as a few other issues that I can't remember

I'd buy that system, apart for the fact it would weight more than, errrrrrrrrrrrr
well just baout everything?

Oh I don't know. I have something that weighs MUCH more 🙂

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shedfire/3349087193/

thisisnotaspoon

When someone makes a BB mounted rolhoff quality shifing system that gets withing a stones throw of the weight of a derreilieur sytem, then i'l jump on the bandwagon.

[img] [/img]

G-Boxx isn't quite as adaptable though GNAR.....

hubba hubba
[img] [/img]

that'd be this then: http://www.g-boxx.com/

interesting: [url= http://www.g-boxx.org/10-bikes_history.html ]W I P[/url]

Why not just get a rolhoff, would be a similar price, lighter, with a bigger spread of gears?

Rohloff lighter???

Errr... Maybe very marginally overall, but the extra weight in the rear hub is more noticable (The Alfine is more than 1/2 lb lighter).

I like the idea of the Rohloff, but there's many things I don't like about it. It's too heavy, it's too expensive (though I admit Hammerschmidt is ridiculously expensive too!), it has a gripshift and it just looks bulky/ugly to me. The alfine is much neater.

The Hammerschmidt is IMO a design that needs some evolving, refining and a big price reduction. But it's a damned good idea! And using one with an Alfine would give the benefits of both associated systems, whilst still being cheaper (even now) than a Rohloff and having trigger shifters not a gripshift.

The chainring is going to wear out fast too. Can't see the point myself, no gains over a regular two ring set up, and potentially a heap of additional problems.

Pointless over expensive crap with only one benefit, shift under load.

a lot of bikes are designed to pedal without bobbing in the middle ring. Because it uses a 22 or 24T tooth ring, a lot of frames won't pedal very well with it, whether in normal 22T, or overdirve

believe that if you like - it's gotta be about gear ratio.

adstick - Member
The chainring is going to wear out fast too.

How often do you wear out steel granny rings? they cost less than a tenner to replace.

You'd wear out your steel granny ring very quickly if it was the only chainring you used...

Also how much is the Hammerschmitt chainring?

hmm, an interesting one- I'm really suprised at the number of people interested in Alfine+Hammerschmidt - surely Rohloff is the way to go there. Alfine is lighter and cheaper, but it's nothing like in the league of Rohloff.

Hammerschmidt did actually impress me when I had a play, very quick change/light feel.

Where Hammerschmidt fits in is as OE spec on the right full-sus, with thought to pivot point, I think that's a big part of the idea.

Dubious real world advantages for £400+ Plus a Rohloff for what £850? plus wheel...So minimum £1250 for a gear set up that's about the same weight, has no better spread of gears, offers a bit a clearance, and a bit less crunching of gears that you can only fit to a tiny percentage of bikes...That sounds...erm...worthwhile. 😕

believe that if you like - it's gotta be about gear ratio.

...more like moments, well levers to keep it simple.

I cant help but think the real problem is the rear mech not the front. Thats the (ahem) real wink link in the system. Its got more to do, has to cope with greater forces, its exposed to all kinds of trail litter & one good wack & your indexing is out. A 2 ring drive chain is a pretty basic & relialble piece of kit as it - Im not convinced Truvativ have really come up with anything new here.

repack & nickc - i think you've nailed it on the head.
cheers.

i know the rollhoff's heavier than alfine, but not heavier than alfine+hammersmidt

I think the fact that honda gave up on "gearbox's " and ended up sticking with a system that combied the best parts of the derelieur and cassette (light, compatibility) with the best bits of a gearbox (sealed, constant chainline, shifting while coasting). I believe that everyone is barking up the wrong tree, miniturising engine gearboxes wont work, theres too much drag, and they weigh too much.

Bring back the safety bicycle eh?