It seems I've just sold a bike on gumtree to someone 250 miles away, so obviously we haven't met in person.
PersonA replied to my ad by email and PersonB called me to sort out payment and sent me an address on personA's behalf (she doesn't have a PayPal acct). Sounded well-spoken (East European), has sent a postage address with money to follow. It all *seems* OK. Anything I might be missing / should be checking?
On my mind are previous reports of people claiming money back from payPal afterwards claiming faulty goods, and not returning the goods to seller. How can this be avoided? (ie, I'd want the bike back if they find issue with it).
Walk away now
Hmmmm I'd be VERY cautious here.
sending bike to address not belonging to the paypal account holder?
you'll lose the bike and the money.
Yeah, just walk away or deliver the bike in person. It's 'only' 250 miles away (a day's driving) so you could ask for the delivery charge in advance via PP with the rest in cash on delivery. Take a few big mates with you though!
How have they asked you to ship it?
Why even bother worrying over it, don't do it end of scam or a bank transfer then it cant be retracted.
Walk
Away
Now!
Two people involved, regardless of their origins, I'd be "thanks butno thanks". Might be legit, but the only way I'd be selling anything to them would be in person and payment in cash only, with a big friend for "insurance".
They'll be a legitimate buyer along soon enough. Ideally they should see the bike before they buy, that way both parties are satisfied.
[quote="yorkycsl"]...or a bank transfer then it cant be retracted.
If the transfer is done fraudulently (i.e. it's not their account) then IIRC it [b]can[/b] be reversed. The rightful owner of the money would quite like to have it back.
Cash on collection please.
Although it might be fun to take the payment then report them to ebay / Police. Before that point they've probably not done anything illegal. The fraudulent payment changes that.
Okay so I think i've figured what the scam is.
PersonA replied to my ad by email and PersonB called me to sort out payment and sent me an address on personA's behalf
PersonA claims the goods never turned up. PersonA complains to PayPal. PayPal's seller protection is even worse than EBay's as far as I know for private sellers.
PersonB either disappears off the planet or person A claims they don't know PersonB.
What rings alarms is why PersonA couldn't email you the address. Or even phone you explaining the situation.
I've been approached by people on Gumtree wanting me to send my bike to them, I always say no, if I wanted the hassle of posting a bike I'd have sold it on ebay, I wouldn't entertain the idea of sending it anywhere other than the paypal address, if they're so friendly they can meet up, have a coffee & pick the bike up when person A hands the money over to person B to pay for the paypal transaction.
Would paypal gift not make it safe?
Be careful with gumtree once had txt of a prospective buyer asking me to mail them more details. then once they had my email received fake gumtree mails asking to verify bank details Scam !!!!!!.
Hmm, interesting. Out of curiosity I've gone along with it and the money is in my paypal. The guy who paid me (personB) sent the address by text for personA. The only thing that worries me now is them complaining it either doesn't turn up or not as described (or some such). How do I tell if it's gift? If it's not, my paranoia tempts me to refund and walk away, but I'm trying to find the catch.
The catch hasnt arrived yet!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a figure for some money in your PP account.
You post bike
They (person A or B) say bike never arrived.
Paypal put funds back on hold..........You cant touch money.
Dispute opens
Paypal side with buyer
Funds withdrawn from your pay pal or bank account
You become victim of scam.
Walk away..................
Seriously? *sigh*
Just refund the guy, then tell him whoever collects needs to bring cash.
Sounds a bit like this......
http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/avoid-this-car-sales-scam
How it works
The con operates as follows: a “buyer” contacts you expressing an interest in your car (or whatever you’re selling: the scam exists on websites other than Auto Trader).
Commonly, the emails are littered with grammatical errors, are oddly phrased and the buyer is most likely to say he or she is out of the country.
They then go on to say they want your item but can only arrange payment via PayPal.
They’ll ask you to give your PayPal details or set up an account. Once you’ve done that, you receive a notification that you've been paid for your goods. In fact you've been overpaid.
Subsequently you are asked to send the difference back via Western Union or some other online payment method – but as you do so, the fraudsters reverse the PayPal transaction, leaving you hundreds or thousands of pounds out of pocket.
Alternatively, the scam works by someone collecting the car, or whatever you’re selling, then raising a dispute with PayPal that the goods haven’t been received. PayPal can then take back the money from your account.
Here’s an example of one of the emails Tom received:
I really want this item to be a surprise gift for my son so i won’t let him know anything about the item until it gets delivered to him,i am sure he will be more than happy with the item.I insisted on paypal because I don't have access to my bank account online as i don't have internet banking, but i can pay from my PayPal account,as i have my bank a/c attached to it, i will need you to give me your PayPal email address so i can make the payment as soon as possible for the item and pls if you don't have PayPal account yet,it is very easy to set up, go on www.paypal.com and get it set up ,after you have set it up i will only need the e-mail address you use for registration with PayPal so as to put the money through.I have a pick up agent that will come for the pick up immediately you have receive the payment in full.please get back to me with your last price?
This type of email is widespread online and Auto Trader says it is aware of the problem.
[quote=jimmy ]Hmm, interesting. Out of curiosity I've gone along with it and the money is in my paypal. The guy who paid me (personB) sent the address by text for personA. The only thing that worries me now is them complaining it either doesn't turn up or not as described (or some such). How do I tell if it's gift? If it's not, my paranoia tempts me to refund and walk away, but I'm trying to find the catch.
😯
you haven't listened to anyone on here , please do not come on here crying when you get stiffed over for your cash/ bike. Sorry to sound harsh but there it is.
I guess I'm just being naiive, and soft (i hate saying no to people). I'm gonna refund him tmrow.
F£&@ it reverse the con and just dont send the bike
^ that.
Bank the cash, delete your Paypal addy and Gumtree account and runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! * This may not be the best advice.
However, scamming scammers should be allowed by law 😀
Eastern European? Female? Still got their number...?
Take the advice here and refund, then walk away. Or sit on the money, don't send the bike and wait for the item not received claim if it comes...
I think the explaining has missed the important bit.
-Paypal requires you to send to the [b]buyers registered address[/b], which should come with the payment on the email or be in the transaction on your paypal account.
-So the actual buyer is the person with the paypal account, and you can only send it to them, so them foning you with a different address is where this becomes a scam.
-because the paypal buyer does not receive the goods at their registered address, the submit an "item not received claim" and get their money back.
- because they called you, non of this is recored in paypals system and you cannot prove jack
So why did they text you the alternative address rather than changing the PayPal delivery address, or even just mentioning it in the note to seller.
Because they don't want PayPal to see that side of the discussion!
Now you've started you might as well send the heaviest item that will fit into a post box with just a second class stamp on it though 🙂
Tell them you are sending the bike in several packages to reduce costs...
I sold some spares or repair forks to a Polish guy in Poland for delivery to his girlfriends address in Scotland. They were never going to sell normally so I was intrigued. It was kosher!
Just insist on sending it to Person B's address (i.e the address registered with paypal), if they're such a good friend they will have no problem forwarding it on.
For gods sake OP please refund and find another buyer
If you have only their payment in your Paypal account and its not linked to any cards or accounts, you could withdraw all the funds and at least that way they cant take the money back.
Probably.
Have big hammer, will travel. And if she's hot we'll bring her back for the ginger fox.
If you have only their payment in your Paypal account and its not linked to any cards or accounts
Don't you need to link a card/account to paypal to be able to set one up and use it?