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I've been looking for some bargain carbon gravel wheels to replace my slightly portly DT Swiss G1800s (the 3 pawl freehub is also occasionally slippy) and have found some possibilities.
Individual wheels work out a better deal than wheelsets, but there seem to be a plethora of rims depths (from about 25mm to 34mm). As with many things cycling, rim depth means nothing to me but a quick Google suggest that shallower rims are best for stability whilst taller are more aero.
As a committed but skill-less pootler I can't imagine that either will be noticeable to me. The best deal rear wheels has a rim depth of 32mm; anything fundamentally wrong with this for general riding about?
The second issue is that if I buy the 32mm rear, I'll either have mismatched hubs with the available 32mm front (probably not an issue) or mismatched depths (32mm rear, 25mm front which seems quite a difference) is this a bad idea?
Any advice/suggestions gratefully received.
Anything below 35mm isn't noticeable IME
25mm rim depth at the front is possibly advantageous on a lighter-loaded, steering axle, but I'm guessing now
Keep them filthy and no-one will notice.
I think rim width is more important than depth. What width tyres do you run for gravel? You don’t want narrow wheels with wide tyres or you end up with a light bulb profile. So I’d suggest you look prioritise rim width, wider the better for me as I run 50mm gravel tyres and the type of freehub you prefer, eg fast pick up none of these old fashioned 3 pawl engagement types. I’d get a quality matching wheelset with brass nipples rather than a bling carbon wheelset any day of the week. Hope do some nice wheels as an example.
My tyres are 40mm rear & 45mm front and the rims of the wheels I'm looking at are 24mm rear & 25mm front (internal) so should be okay.
The rear hub is a DT Swiss 350 and the front will either be a 350 or 370.
As a subsequent question, the freehub is listed as a Shimano 11-12 speed, would this be HG as this is what I'd need?
I have a suspicion that increased rim depth has made my gravel bike less enjoyable to ride, but it's very difficult to prove. I'm on rim brakes so a winter of Cyclocross will give me the opportunity to wear the rims out and go shallow again in the spring.
I think rim width is over-rated, I'm on 19mm now with 45mm tyres, never noticed any issues. Wider rims and straighter sidewalls might be more stable under hard cornering but don't see how it contributes to comfort or speed.
I think caring about rim depth is for gravel bikers coming at it from the very road biased perspective.
If you, as I, are taking a mountain bikers perspective on gravel biking (an off road, drop bar ATB kinda thing), then forget depth and focus on rim width and weight vs strength!
Aero doesn't really make much difference at 10 mph!
Aero doesn't really make much difference at 10 mph!
But you are going slow enough that everyone can see how cool your deep(ish) wheels look! 😉
More seriously and as above, anything around 20 - 30mm will be much of a muchness.
The other thing to note on gravel bikes, which literally nobody ever talks about until they’ve bought a set of deep section wheels and regretted it, is that the deeper the rim, generally the stiffer and less forgiving it is to ride… Which on a road bike ridden only on very smooth roads (where?!?! Sounds like heaven!) isn’t an issue… If you actually use your gravel bike properly off road, you’re likely to notice just how unforgiving deeper section wheels are, and if you’re not averaging speeds where deep section wheels start to make a significant aero difference, you’re better off not nothing IMO…
Tyre variables (tread pattern, width, pressure, compound, carcass etc.) will make a more meaningful difference to the typical gravel rider than a set of deep section wheels anyway…
The other thing to note on gravel bikes, which literally nobody ever talks about until they’ve bought a set of deep section wheels and regretted it,
So what does constitute deep then? I was only musing 32mm as Merlin have a Reserve/DT Swiss rear wheel (that happens to be 32mm deep) with 70% off. Since some of the their wheels are 25mm deep I'd assumed that this was 'deep'. I note thought, that Reserve now offer a 48/53mm wheelset for gravel.
As with my original post, I'm not a skilled or technical rider but I would value comfort over performance. I'm also not dead set on carbon but I am a sucker for a bargain (and quite low income). I'm just after something that would be a bit lighter than the G1800s whilst being reasonably affordable and would be quite happy with aluminium including the Hopes mentioned (I have 9 year old Hope Pro 4s on my main bike that are still running their original bearings & freehub).
I wouldn't want anything too deep on a gravel bike
I think my basic Fulcrums are 25-30mm deep on the Free Ranger and even spinning out 40-11 or 42-11 on tarmac it's not them holding me back. I'm sure at the 23-25mph that represents there'd be some small aero gains from something deeper but not sure the wider trade off is worth it.
I think there's something to be said for a spot of compliance even on the road (certainly around here).
Posts crossed but for gravel I'd say deep is rims heading towards 40mm+. It's a bit subjective.
50mm+ you're into road aero.
It is not that uncommon to have a deeper wheel on the rear compared to the front. For much deeper wheels they are affected by cross winds so a shallower rim on the front is easier to control.
Its more normal for it to be something like a 50mm rear, 35mm front. For the combo you describe it would look fine and probably not be all that noticeable.
I'd be more concerned about width than depth. Generally wider gives better tyre contact. Depth is important if you are coving ground fast (e.g. racing or riding easier stuff) but it you are slower and doing easy mtb trails there wouldn't be a benefit - type of riding assumed from the fact this is a mtb forum!
I don't know what your budget is but if you wanted some workhorse wheels that will last I'd look at just riding along.
Thanks, I appreciate folk taking the time to chip in.
I think what I'm picking up here is that a 32mm depth rim isn't that extreme & that 32mm one end at 25mm at the other isn't going to cause any issues.
As above, I'm a sucker for a bargain & 70% off got me a bit excited, carbon though isn't a non-negotiable.
I also looked at Hunt but prevaricated (as usual) for so long that the 30% off +10% extra for July sale ended and the price shot up £300.
I've also looked at Hope RX24 & DT Swiss GR1600 although neither of these brands tend to end up heavily discounted.
Budget-wise I guess I'd probably want to stick below £600 (less if possible)
Perhaps now, a more pertinent question would be whether saving 200-300 grams across a wheelset is really worth the money for someone who's enjoying being out in the countryside rather than riding at the limit (and for whom money's a tad tight). The G1800s (albeit the older 3 pawl versions) are a perfectly decent set of wheels if a little heavy.
I replaced my G1800's with a cheap set from aliexpress made by CSC. They're about 500g lighter and much wider at 32mm internal and at about £260 at the time seem like a bargain. The bearings are starting to get a bit rough 9 months later but other than that they've been fine being battered about on the North Leeds gravel.
I'm running wider tyres than I did previously but going to wider internal width rims seems to drastically reduce the number of punctures I get. I've seen the same thing on mtb wheels too. Even running tubeless I seemed to need 40+ psi where as now I'm running under 30psi.
Im running 40mm Fulcrum 40 DB wheels on my gravel bike, inner rim width 19mm and good for tyres up to 50mm
Im running 40mm tyres (frame can take up to 42mm tyres)
Wheel depth on gravel bikes really does depend on what type of gravel bike you have and how much time you will spend between on the road and off road
In my case my gravel bike was designed for fast light gravel, think canal towpath’s, dusty paths, man made off road type paths, old train lines etc… its a bit of a bone shaker on the western end of the SDW and wasn't designed for rocks, roots and churned up and dried up bridleways
Also for any decent gravel paths i have to ride 5-10 miles on road to get there, the off road sections can be a few miles long before i then have to do more road miles to get to the next off road section so it makes sense for me to have aero wheels
Id be cautious of Hope’s gravel wheels, i used to have a set of Hope 20five wheels and the rear rim cracked around the spoke holes on the rim, replaced the rim and the new rim did the same
Budget-wise I guess I'd probably want to stick below £600 (less if possible)
Perhaps now, a more pertinent question would be whether saving 200-300 grams across a wheelset is really worth the money for someone who's enjoying being out in the countryside rather than riding at the limit (and for whom money's a tad tight). The G1800s (albeit the older 3 pawl versions) are a perfectly decent set of wheels if a little heavy.
Personally I'd go with decent direct from China wheels rather than old model western brand wheels from Merlin (Elitewheels Gravel SLR would be around £500 delivered, inc. duty, from their AliExpress store, less if there's a decent voucher/offer on, I have around 3000 miles on mine and they've been faultless so far)
My main gravel bike shipped with G1800's and I've since bought a few sets of carbon gravel wheels for it. Once you're saving 300g+ it is noticeable at times but I wouldn't say it totally transformed the bike and I guess if measured if you're on a ride with a lot of climbing it probably adds up a fair bit, you just don't notice it so much in the moment. I use the G1800's for bike packing now.
Depth doesn't really matter (apart from for looks) unless you're at the pointy end of elite racing. Width matters more if you're running 45mm+ tyres.
Perhaps now, a more pertinent question would be whether saving 200-300 grams across a wheelset is really worth the money for someone who's enjoying being out in the countryside rather than riding at the limit (and for whom money's a tad tight). The G1800s (albeit the older 3 pawl versions) are a perfectly decent set of wheels if a little heavy.
If budget is tight and your current wheels are 'adequate' (and it's summer so I would always prefer riding to parts swapping) I would strongly suggest just looking at tyres in the first instance.
Just in terms of "Bang for Buck" tyres can make a bigger difference to how a bike rides and functions (IMO). Volume, rolling resistance (on and off-road), grip, weight, suppleness/comfort, etc... Tyres have a direct impact on all of these factors, Wheels are the next part in the chain and the best wheelset ever is a wasted investment with crap tyres.
Personally I am very sceptical of "Aero Gravel" Wheel setups, especially when people are running 2"+ tyres now, You'll probably affect your CDA more by just tucking down on the hoods or drops for long flat sections than by trying to aero-optimise your wheelset...
I know I've written this many times this year, but for some marginal gains, anyone looking for "gravel" width tyres for tarmac or offroad should try at least one 40/45mm Caracal Race on their rear tyre with a Vittoria MTB latex tube. With just the 45mm rear wheel done and still using a 40mm Marathon Supreme on the front with a butyl tube, I'm getting to ~16mph and sometimes briefly a bit beyond that far for readily than when using 35mm front and 40mm rear Supreme with butyl tubes last year. The lowered rolling resistance is visible in free speed.
Extra comfort too, that 40mm Supreme needed ~60PSI on the rear for ~96Kg me plus ~18Kg ebike, now that ~46mm Caracal Race at ~42PSI is like a magic carpet ride on often poorly maintained lanes.
Not answering the question but what other than the slipping 3 pawl is up with your current wheels? If its just the freehub slip then you could upgrade that to ratchet LN and solve the issue.
Very much this.
As you've said, your aim on a bike is to get out into the country and enjoy some down time. New wheels are not going to revolutionise that experience.
I'd spend a small amount of cash replacing the free hub if it's needed (it's a 5min DIY job any clutz can manage) and carry on carrying on.
Depending on your frame's capacity to handle a bigger tyre and the terrain you ride you 'might' benefit from a 2nd pair of wheels so you can switch tyres as and when.....so buy yourself a 2nd pair then. And when you do.....focus of width not depth.
Thanks again.
I have Caracal Race tyres on the bike (40/45) so I'm fairly happy on the tyre front.
Again, there's nothing wrong with the G1800s, they're just a tad porky. I did consider a Ratchet LN upgrade but it didn't seem particularly cheap (I think there are special tools needed also). Another option might be a GR1600 rear wheel (although the Reserve 42GR carbon wheel with 70% off also has a 350 hub).
I'm not hung up on rim depth it's just something I knew nothing about & also didn't know if a mismatch would be problematic.
I'm in no rush so I can have a think & see what deals are available.
The deeper they are the more noise they make, I'm sure we've all heard the rumble a mile off when a deep sectioned wheel fitted road bike trundles passed. I hate that row so id go much shallower rim profile just to avoid having to listen to that sound the whole ride, every ride.
I know I've written this many times this year, but for some marginal gains, anyone looking for "gravel" width tyres for tarmac or offroad should try at least one 40/45mm Caracal Race on their rear tyre with a Vittoria MTB latex tube. With just the 45mm rear wheel done and still using a 40mm Marathon Supreme on the front with a butyl tube,
Lower rolling resistance and free speed, not sure I agree but ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one and just say all that time gained with be lost plus much more while you fiddle about changing tubes when you get all the punctures that just using tubeless will save you from experiencing.
I gather from that rolling resistance website that the tanwall Caracal Races have a lower rolling resistance that the black-walled ones.
