[Closed] Glentress Blue Braking bumps

off your soapbox. braking bumps sometimes appear on a mountain bike trail.

Keep your feet firmly on the soapbox. The vast majority of trails are red or black graded, there are precious few blues for beginners/kids to get into the sport without thoughtless idiots tearing them apart to show how incredibly fast and skilful they are (on a novice trail???).

Totally agree Monster101, Whinllaters also getting cut up badly with braking bumps,Irrespective of trail grading its just bad riding imho, and shows a poor understanding of the trails, and how a mountain bike should be ridden.

A police motorcycle instructor once said to me "brakes are for stopping,not for slowing down",and the same principles of reading the trail/road and finding the smoothest/faster line can also be used to avoid unnecessary braking.

This is where coaching and skills lessons have a big part to play in mountainbike centres and I know Cyclewise at Whinnlater,and all other training centres are keen to help riders out with things like this. 😉

We met a nine year old biking up the Burmah Road with his dad a few months back. Full of determination. He then rode the same descent we did. If your son is keen, he wont be put off.

[img] [/img]

I see more beginners at GT skidding than I do experienced riders.

Because they're beginners! Experienced riders should know better.

Witnessed it at the last blue section yesterday as well, a group of guys mostly on santa cruz blurs and orange fives going past us at warp speed

I hope you're not suggesting they may be on here?

I agree once the tears and snaughters stopped, he rode the rest of the trail, blue velvet twice and jump park once then down to the hub. So big smiles eventually.

Its all about expectation. This was a groomed section of the trail, good views and nothing scary ahead except a slight dip. My little boy is on a Spesh Hard rock 20 with shitty forks and as he is the weight of nothing he gets bounced about a fair bit. He is learning though and I am gradually getting him correct body positioning. The problem is he is independent and wanted to go first on that bit of trail.

At the top of the flyover further down the blue, I watched a dad, decent bike etc ride down the flyover, their kids (3 of them) were braking badly skidding going down rather than using the fantastically well sculpted berm. No coaching from the Dad and they all stopped at the top of the bridge.

Skills training is essential in my opinion. formal course or good parent!

I dont agree with the point about beginners on good game etc, they simply cannot get enough speed up to cause those braking bumps and this is exacerbated with full sus. Sit at the side for 10 mins on a saturday and you will see most of the downhill gods making an ar$e of it.

Singletrack users skidding unskillfully nah! Bike radar folk maybe 😆

At the top of the flyover further down the blue, I watched a dad, decent bike etc ride down the flyover, their kids (3 of them) were braking badly skidding going down rather than using the fantastically well sculpted berm. No coaching from the Dad and they all stopped at the top of the bridge.

Maybe 1st time out away from the green route? That section can be intimidating to those who are not experienced. If they've never ridden anything as steep before, and they don't have the experience, even with some advice/coaching from the dad they'd probably still skid down it. That's what beginners trails are for - learning on. And learners will skid.

What gets me are the braking bumps on the red and black routes, as THAT is where riders should know better.

I've never understood the need for 'experienced' riders to come hurtling past us at mach 1 like their heads are on fire, whilst we're pottering along uncertainly down the blue routes. If you're that bloody l33t, shouldn't you be on the red rather than tearing up the easy routes and looking at us like we're dog eggs?

I think we're missing the most important point here though, which is 'what the geoff are "snaughters"?!'

He, He! Good scottish word for nasal excretions of the runny variety. Usually in conjunction with tears. Telling him to MTFU didnt work as the wee yin was clutching his nads. 😳

which is 'what the geoff are "snaughters"?!'

Totally agree with gavgas. ride with lots of kids and we use the "skids are for kids" mantra and explain to them what it means. We also practice cornering.

Just a shame most mags show people like Hans Rey and others and explian on how to "drift" tail out, foot down etc.

Some of the fault can also be directed at poor trailbuilding

eg Whinlatter. A lot of that North trail is unsustainable due to terrain and the use of fall line trails. ie it is too steep in places and will rode regardless of people dragging their brakes.
Descenderbender at Mabie, anther example, is being upgraded atm. The bends have always been blind and 8-10yrs ago when they were built there was little or no understanding about how to build berms by the then trailbuilders who were all from varying backgrounds such as joiner, bike shop worker, retired fireman, banker etc.

Braking bumps are just becoming a 'feature' of high traffic trail centers, you just have learn to live with them or ride somewhere else.

Isn't it possible the break bumps, especially on blue trails, are down to less experienced riders? I know I used to skid a lot before I learned not to.

I immediately felt guilty, then remembered I was out with kids and had missed Electric Blue out in favour of car retrieval from Buzzards Nest carpark.
loads of "experienced" riders are still braking with rear brakes only locking up the back wheel; certainly folk on V braked bikes find it the only way to slow down.
Anyone spot the Black Kite out getting its tea on the road back to Embra?
Cool!

what makes you think they were experianced

i thought it was well known that glentress is full of folk with all the gear who feel out of their depth on the blue .....

Resin42 - Member
Isn't it possible the break bumps, especially on blue trails, are down to less experienced riders?

That is what BLUE trails are for, should maybe built a bit tougher ❓

"If you're that bloody l33t, shouldn't you be on the red rather than tearing up the easy routes and looking at us like we're dog eggs?"

Not to excuse the skidding or hammering past people which is just bad riding but I'm an 'experienced' rider and the 2nd half of the blue is my favourite bit at glentress. It's a lovely bit of riding.

Do you think this kid cries at braking bumps?

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/147106/

Being knocked off your bike by another rider is one thing, but I don't think you can lay the blame of this incident on anyone else.

Monster101 - Member
In my opinion, they should be on the red or [b]slow down if they cannot brake properly[/b].

A good message to pass on to your son, who was apparently going faster than he should have been?

If it were a minority of riders who didn't know how to brake, the brake bumps would not be an issue.

A police motorcycle instructor once said to me "brakes are for stopping,not for slowing down".

So what did he use to slow down? A good sense of humour?

Skidding is always going to mess up the trails so no one should be doing it full stop.

However, blue is not only for beginners although more experienced riders should of course be riding appropriately around less experienced riders.

At the end of the day we all just want to enjoy good trails whatever their grading.

Three fish, he's over simplified that statement slightly and it doesn't cross over to mountain bikes that simply but he'll be using a combination of forward planning and acceleration sense to get his speed right before the corners.

I have to agree, there does seem to be a greater number of riders who can't/don't brake properly. I don't think full sus is the cause but it does amplify the effect as it allows unskilled riders to hit things harder and faster and get away with it.

A police motorcycle instructor once said to me "brakes are for stopping,not for slowing down".

So what did he use to slow down? A good sense of humour?

read the road and let off the throttle early.

read the road and let off the throttle early.

Great [u]general[/u] advice for a motorised cycle with a gearbox riding on tarmac, but essentially useless on a bicycle fitted with a freehub on a twisty dirt trail.

read the road and let off the throttle early.

That works well and looks very impressive on fast A-roads, but not so well on twisty B-roads. I've been out with police riders a few times and once had to stop for a bit for one of them to catch-up after a very tight and twisty bit - despite me never exceeding the speed limit. I was on a 650cc touring bike and the police guy was on one of their Pans, and the only real difference is that I was using the brakes and the police guy tried to ride it just using engine braking.

TF, I'll agree, not a totally transferable set of skills, but also not totally useless. How many riders do we all know who could do with planning ahead more? Maybe some of us might even be honest enough to admit that we could do with looking further down the trail a bit more often. We might not have engine braking available but there's a lot of value to picking the right places to brake. Not just at the last moment before a corner but considering ground conditions and where we might be able to check speed most effectively.

lol al the trail riding gods."I've never locked my back wheel in my life".

what makes me laugh is folk that do not know entry/exit speeds for corners you watch them lean in - realise they aint making it at current speed/lean - rather than trust the tires they hit the brakes - the bike goes upright , skid ensues ..... all momentum and smoothness lost

ok we dont all get it right all the time but you see it loads when you come up behind folks

used to ride the local dh trails chainless - soon sorts that shit out , teaches you to ride smooth and flowing as otherwise you aint going to get to the bottom 😀

Its a sad world when people complain a trail is to bumpy for their mountain bikes.

Onzadog, I'm absolutely with you on the reading of the trail. I did road racing in cars when I was in my twenties and have a reasonably good idea of when to brake and when to let the engine/gearbox do the work. My point was that the "brakes aren't for slowing down" is simply untrue.

cynic-al, I don't know if I am one of those you refer to, but, in my eyes, it's just basic common sense that skidding the wheels is not a particularly efficient way to slow down. I sometimes skid my rear, either by locking with the brake or by drifting, but I don't pile into a corner with my rear brake jammed on thinking that I'm slowing down in the most efficient way.

Singlespeed_Shep - Member
Its a sad world when people complain a trail is to bumpy for their mountain bikes

A good message to pass on to your son, who was apparently going faster than he should have be

what they said, i can't skid my brakes are so bad it's impossible to do

can someone teach people that the word is "brake" and not "break" please

Does anyone thinks its a disgrace that we are getting ar$eholes on full suspension bikes/DH bikes braking like ****s

good generalised sweeping statement there.......... 🙄

So HT riders don't skid? TBH I've not seen many if any DH bikes at GT.

I ride at glentress quite a bit with my kids and have never thought of blaming other riders when any of my kids fall off. If they go too fast for the trail or make a mistake hopefully they learn from it and don't do it again.

What a strange spelling of snotters as well, are you posh?

Not sure where the 'motorway' section is, but the route from the Buzzard car park down to the Blue / Reb-Black split is designated Blue, irrelevent of who rides it.

Which section is the 'motorway'?

Motorway is the fast straight section that takes you to the bottom of a climb which in turn takes you to Blue Velvet, above the freeride area.

Trekster - Member

"That is what BLUE trails are for, should maybe built a bit tougher"

Not really possible without a solid surface ie tarmac, concrete or stone pitching. Those trails are in amazingly good nick considering the abuse they get.

To be fair though, I think the wee man just learned a lesson about riding beyond his abilities, most people learn it sooner or later somewhere, he happened to learn it on braking bumps on the blue but if they'd not been there it would have happened somewhere else. You can't ride a trail expecting it to cosset you, or you'll get hurt.

Ok, I know now.

I was there with my kids last month, and did that section. Didn't notice any braking bumps - but then the reason people would brake there is that suddenly you are going quick - so panic braking does often equal braking bumps.

Its a Trail Centre, and there for EVERYONE whatever age/skill/bike.

It is a mountain bike trail though a few small braking bumps are to be expected even on the blue and not necessarily caused by skids. There generally caused by braking, surprisingly. Skids do cut up the trails though and allow water erosion to worsen the trail.

Agree with the guys on big bikes hooning around but that section is a short cut back to the freeride area from spooky woods so is always going to be a bit like that.

GT is becoming a bit of a victim of it own success at the weekends. Far to many people for the amount of trails. For me its all the inexperienced riders/big groups not getting out of the way or stopping in the middle of the trails (general lacking trail etiquette). Tend to stay away from weekends at GT or go really early in the morning

Hmm, I ride at glentress at the weekend a couple of times a month (after trailfairy sessions) and I've never felt it to be crowded, even at the choke points. You see other riders but not [i]that[/i] many, and a little bit of common sense gets round most problems. If it's too busy for you, go and do the black.

that's coz it isn't crowded at all in the afternoon, no trail centre is.

We're out digging on the red often so we get a better look at the traffic in the morning than most people, it's still not busy. Lots of people sure, but spread out round the length of the place it still doesn't add up to bashing elbows.

er.. not really. wouldn't you generally get to watch riders passing ONE place on ONE trail?

there's a bizarre mentality at GT to get there early for a parking space and another to get to back to the Hub for "lunch time". I made a rule years ago to rarely ever ride before mid day (but may ride til dark) and whenever I've been there the place is absolutely dead by 4pm

same with inners (XC).

Lots of different point raised here:
Sorry to hear about any rider who hurts themself, especially a young beginner. however the bottom line is, until that point he didn't appreciate the skills needed to handle the terrain he was riding...a hard lesson..but one we've all had as kids and sometimes even now that we're "all growed up." I'm sure he will learn as he goes like we all did/do.
it's also reflective that the expansion of MTB is developing skills on "manufactured/manicured" trails...in terms of skills gained this is false ecomomy..it's like riding pavements...

However us growed up people need to realise that the investment in our hallowed trail centres is essentially for the younger "next growth" of riders...without them us "oldies" will get nothin..
Here's hoping the "wee man" gets stuck back in and forgets all about his "Sunday 22/8/10 snaughters".

etiquette : manners cost nothing and faster and slower riders need to realise it works both ways...but never forget that we're all out to enjoy riding bikes.

agree re "good" riders cutting up a storm on beginners blues...it's not big or smart if there's "weaker" riders about..

skills: it's not necessarily skidding that causes BB's...a sliding tyre cuts...a rolling but breaking wheel causes ripples..

"er.. not really. wouldn't you generally get to watch riders passing ONE place on ONE trail?"

If we were always on the same place on the same trail then yes. But as we're not, no. You get a better overall view of traffic standing still than you do moving

lolercopters at people moaning about bumps.

FFS get a grip will you.

Working on one bit of trail, usually a very popular bit of trail is an ideal way to get an idea of the amount of use it is getting. Yesterday it was falla brae black, within sight of the red option and didn't see that many folk, that was between 10am and 1pm. Before that we were working on Magic Mushroom and again didn't see that many folk. Two or three folk every ten minutes or so. Often you are keeping an eye out for folk to warn them and the fairies and its never so busy you need someone on permanent watch. Its surprising how few people stop and say hello or thanks. Or maybe not surprising at all.

magic mushroom? one of the last sections on the red? before 10am, not busy? really? 🙄

other than counting heads coming in the bottom to the car parks the only place to allow you to get any kind of even vaugely accurate idea of numbers of users would be at the road junction at the Buzzards car park, you'd see the mummys and daddys drop of the rad kids, the freeride yoofs, families heading to the green/blue/skills loop, and everyone heading to the red and black.

Great general advice for a motorised cycle with a gearbox riding on tarmac, but essentially useless on a bicycle fitted with a freehub on a twisty dirt trail.

I was reffering to reading the trail/road, and therefore maintaining a smoother and more progressive line through the section.

Riding a motorcycle or mountain bike the dynamics on how you approach the situation are the same and both relevant to avoid overbraking into a corner.

GW, read what he wrote again. "between 10am and 1pm" 🙄

Mountain bike trail has bumps shocker 😯

Mountain bike trail has bumps shocker 😯

See stutter bumps have caused me to post twice I wish I had a smoother sofa 😳

'magic mushroom? one of the last sections on the red? before 10am, not busy? really?' REALLY 🙄 Of course you could come to a fairy session and see for yourself.

i've never experienced much congestion at GT apart from if im just starting off a section behind a group. The carparks can be full and there will be loads of people out riding but it can still seem quiet. if i go out after 2 even on a saturday i can do the whole red without seeing another person after the buzzards nest or freeride park

Are braking bumps caused only by skidding or can hard braking do it as well. I've seen them on roads before sharp corners on fast roads and most drivers don't drift.

Otherwise I agree with singlespeedstu. You go mountain biking you exect rough terrain.

manners cost nothing and faster and slower riders need to realise it works both ways

Wholeheartedly agree, and I try desperately hard to yield to people coming up faster behind me; I'll get my heel down or bail off the track for a moment if there's space, and I'll happily drop back and pick my moment to pass in the uncommon times where a slower rider is in front of me.

Mostly people are courteous, but every now and again you'll get a couple of riders all suspension and elbows who come steaming through you like you're not there. It's not bloody hard to give a verbal warning first now, is it?! Asshats.

jonb - Member
Are braking bumps caused only by skidding or can hard braking do it as well. I've seen them on roads before sharp corners on fast roads and most drivers don't drift

adam5555 - Member
It is a mountain bike trail though a few small braking bumps are to be expected even on the blue and not necessarily caused by skids. There generally caused by braking, surprisingly. Skids do cut up the trails though and allow water erosion to worsen the trail

Working on one bit of trail, usually a very popular bit of trail is an ideal way to get an idea of the amount of use it is getting. Yesterday it was falla brae black, within sight of the red option and didn't see that many folk, that was between 10am and 1pm. Before that we were working on Magic Mushroom

no matter how many times I read it, it says...

fala brae between 10am and 1pm. [b]before that[/b] we were working on magic mushroom. 😕

but the point is, what traffic the trailfairies see passing them on a saturday isn't really a good indication of numbers of riders on all the trails is it?

Steven - I have been at a trailfairy session and personally I think the trail maintenance at GT these days more often than not over sanitises everything. I rarely ride at GT at all these days as lots of it is pretty shit now IMO

By before that I meant in previous sessions. If you've been to a session then you'd know the chances of doing some work on Magic Mushroom and then loading up and going to Falla Brae and unloading and starting work again are about nil. Can't see how standing at the Buzzards nest junction is a better indicator of how crowded it is. Ok its busy there, with riders going in all directions. Once they are on the trails, with the exception of the freeride and skills areas it is pretty quiet. The trails have to be built the way they are to cope with the amount of use they get. This results in a trail being 'sanitised' for a bit then getting nicely worn in and riding well for a bit and then getting a bit rougher before the cycle starts again.

"Before that", ie a previous session. We don't do anything before 10am, we're all too busy oaning about how early it is 😆

"but the point is, what traffic the trailfairies see passing them on a saturday isn't really a good indication of numbers of riders on all the trails is it?"

Not on all the trails, of course not, but we work on the busiest trails the most since they're the ones that need the most work. The fact that we don't often see how many people are out on the black or the green isn't that relevant when most riders are on the blue and the red.

Still, obviously I can see why your opinion as someone who "rarely rides at Glentress" is going to be much more accurate than people who spend days working and riding there.

there's a bizarre mentality at GT to get there early for a parking space and another to get to back to the Hub for "lunch time".

Why is this bizarre? Surely it's more about getting out early and making the most of your day? As opposed to getting there for a parking space?

Personally I love nothing more than getting there early, bit of Red, some black, and shock-horror some blue trails (all at full tilt!), and back at the hub for breaky by half 9 / 10.... means I'm less likely to come across families at that time, which I find with a noisey bike can be a bit embarrassing when they feel they have to dive off the trails out the way.

I don't see this as being any different to the folks that head for a gym for a couple of hours first thing in the morning... and I'm sure they're not rushing to get a parking spot.

oh, ok. I thought you were mibbie just at magic mushroom for 20mins or so first to remove one of those "nasty roots" 😉

How exactly do you know what most riders are riding?

I don't, but then I never said I did.

Steven - I have been at a trailfairy session and personally I think the trail maintenance at GT these days more often than not over sanitises everything. I rarely ride at GT at all these days as lots of it is pretty shit now IMO

Are you trying to turn this thread into one that mostly just went in circles when it was active several weeks ago?

It seems that the 'fairies are arguing that from their experience the main trails themselves rarely seem that busy (as Falla Brae and Magic Mushroom are both on the red and black trails they surely qualify as main trails) while you're saying that at the car parks and other nexus points Glentress gets crowded on weekend mornings. It doesn't sound to me like these two points of view are necessarily mutually exclusive.

IME some people head to Glentress early on a Saturday or Sunday so that they can have a ride, maybe munch some cake and get back to their families and/or significant others in time for some quality time in the afternoon. It doesn't seem like a particularly bizarre mentality to me.

No Chris, not at all, simply giving a reason as to why I wouldn't join you lot.

you know fine well Glentress has such a large network of trails and it's so easy to chop and change routes that by standing at one point for a few hours every second saturday you will only see a very small proportion of the trail users that day.

it is perfectly acceptable to spend quality time with your family in the morning too you know (or maybe you don't). Our mentalities are very different so our different view on things is only to be expected 😉

Pity about the kid falling off but its a learning process - hopefully he will take it into account next trip and ride over them or around them (or just take it a bit slower).

As for GT at the weekend, I dont go near it in the morning unless very early and even then would only do the black. Far too many people who dont get out of the way or think its acceptable to stop in the middle of the trail. GT can be great fun as a night ride or very early morning or as Gary mentioned later in the afternoon, just not for me on a weekend morning. Anyway, you have Innerleithen XC, 3B/Yair, Gypsy Glen all nearby with almost no one on them on a weekend morning, much more fun.

Ride the black route and you never see anyone. Fact/IME/Simples/etc. Why does this discussion always crop up?

Funny, watching the Lopes vid in another thread, he skids before some corners - are we jumping on his rad dood ass?

Thinking about it, most times I actually ride the black I end up seeing quite a few people on it and we all end up commenting that we never usually see anyone else on it! The last time I rode it the hut at the top of the big switchback climb was packed when I got there.