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The problem with doing the sums is that you have to decide what you are going to keep constant. For example, Giant's calculations of wheel weight effectively assume the same tyre/rim/spokes. That sounds fine, but a 29er with a 2.35" tyre has a much larger volume of air than a 26" wheel with the same width tyre. You could just as well argue that you want to keep the volume of air the same (to give similar feel at similar pressure), in which case the width of the 29er tyre would be lower and the weight difference much less. In fact that is what most people do with 29ers; run narrower tyres. For example, my 29er wheels are hope/Arch Ex with 2.1" Racing Ralph tyres and are actually lighter than my 26" set (Hope/Flow Ex with 2.35" Nobby Nic). But my 29er is my light fast XC hardtail and my 26" bike is designed to take more abuse. So, as always, wheel size is only part of the story.
This is just a ploy from Giant to try to shake the market up into deciding what its doing. The big manufactureres want this silly debate ended as much as we do so they can get on with the business of building bikes they can sell and take the uncertainty out of the market. It is a fiarly safe bet to lay your stakes on 650b - not that much bigger than 26" so can eventually replace their long travel and DH bikes in their range so they're trying to flush out what's happening with 29er's. The other big companies seem to have laid their stalls out and Giant are obviously wanting to cover their bets for as long as they can before committing - they may even be looking to sweep up any disenchanted people from other brands who may have discontinued their favourite wheelsize.
Giant will fall into line with everyone else whatever that may turn out to be.
Yes, for all the talk of extra choice, the fact is that having multiple wheel sizes doesn't really suit anybody. Whether it is the consumers or the manufacturers I think we'd all be happier with one wheel size and the manufacturers have already shown that they can build a bike with the characteristics to suit almost any rider using any of the three common sizes. So all that remains now is to pick one and we can all move on.
So according to Giant, with the exception of rolling resistance and traction. 26" wheels are better
So keep your 26" bike and go tubeless. 😀
There you go I've saved you all ££££
Just bought a fleet of Trance X2 in 26" for the new season - but will be watching the marketing trends. Next year 27.5 - but who knows.
I wonder if this move by Giant will increase the value of my 2012 26" Trance X2? Ever the optimist me 🙂
Giant are a massive global brand / manufacturer selling bikes in more markets than any other.
You can put away any theories of marketing brain-washing for more profit - imo if anyone needs to hedge bets on a global average wheel it's Giant. It's nothing more than trying to remain competitive, very little to do with market coercion. They could lose a big chunk of sales by getting it wrong. They could also lose a lot of profit by having 3 wheel size platforms 'just in case'. I'd be a much happier giant stakeholder right now than one of specialized if spesh remain 29-at-all-costs. I can see the downside in buying new wheels and all that but Giant won't be the brand to 'keep it real' and keep making 26" options that sell to an increasingly small number of people.
From reading that article, it says that Giant can't make 29er work very well around their suspension, so they are going to stop trying and convince us all that 650 was the answer all along. Despite other bike manufacturers with other suspension layouts making 29er FS work.
So - Giant make things easier for themselves whilst investing in new and easier-to-make niche.
it says that Giant can't make 29er work very well around their suspension,
Isn't Dave Weagle (or someone) trying to sue Giant on the basis that Maestro infringes existing patents for DW-link (which seems to work fine for 29ers)?
The suspension on my Trance 29er seems to work fine?
Currently have a Zesty for fun, twisty stuff. After a year of waiting for the Wheel Wars to settle down, I finally decided to get a 29" hardtail for longer rides / racing to complement the Zesty.
Now I haven't got a clue. If the 29er becomes a niche wheel size, I might have 2 "obsolete" bikes that I can't buy tubes / tyres for in the future.
Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer.
tenfoot - MemberNow I haven't got a clue. If the 29er becomes a niche wheel size, I might have 2 "obsolete" bikes that I can't buy tubes / tyres for in the future.
that's really not going to happen.
Do you ever see any 24" mtb's? - no? but getting rims/tyres/tubes is still easy.
it says that Giant can't make 29er work very well around their suspension
Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It's the best bike I have ever ridden, so I'm not quite sure who thinks the design doesn't work.
I use it as one bike for all tasks, does race duties at Elite level with light wheels, trail centres and day rides in peaks and dales etc. with a slightly more bomb proof set. for me it's a great bike, much better than the 26" version I used to have.
that's really not going to happen.Do you ever see any 24" mtb's? - no? but getting rims/tyres/tubes is still easy.
Not true. I can be seen riding round on my Nomad with a 24" rear wheel.
But yes, it is easy to get rims and tyres for it.
The only wheel size I've struggled to find is 17". Given the fact that there is only one bike that uses this size and SJS cycles will sell you the rims and tyres for silly money (£60 for a rim!) I don't think finding 26" parts is going to be a problem any time soon. Unless rim and tyre manufacturers make a concious decision to restrict access to force everyone onto the new sizes.
...but can you still get replacement 24" Kashimashimaaaaaaaaaaaaa fork stanchions? Can ya?
Nope.
(a rather facile point, but you may see the principle here). 😉
The Trance looks very nice indeed, in fact I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my order for the new Trek Fuel until I've had a go.
Is cancelling a bike you've asked your LBS to order from the distributor bad form? I'd still be buying the Giant from them.
Speak to them justatheory, it might be fine, or it might be a pain!
[b]AlexSimon[/b], aye, why do I post this cr@p? I'll ask them.
Blazin-saddles - Member
it says that Giant can't make 29er work very well around their suspension
Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It's the best bike I have ever ridden, so I'm not quite sure who thinks the design doesn't work.[b]I use it as one bike for all tasks, does race duties at Elite level [/b]with light wheels, trail centres and day rides in peaks and dales etc. with a slightly more bomb proof set. for me it's a great bike, much better than the 26" version I used to have.
POSTED 13 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Oh ffs. 🙄
Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It's the best bike I have ever ridden, so I'm not quite sure who thinks the design doesn't work
Well Giant for a start 🙂
I can imagine that folk who have recently been sold a Giant 29er are going to be a bit annoyed at Giant now claiming that 29ers are a bad idea. But bike companies have always tried to claim that this years bike is much better than anything they've ever made before. Just because this change involves a new wheel size doesn't make that claim any more valid. If you thought a 29er Anthem or Trance was a great bike for you last year then it's still a great bike for you now, whatever the people who made it say.
justatheory - MemberAlexSimon, aye, why do I post this cr@p? I'll ask them.
lol
Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It's the best bike I have ever ridden, so I'm not quite sure who thinks the design doesn't work.
best bike for what conditions and terrain though? It's a relative. Any bike is going to be a compromise, no suspension, wheel size, tyre etc is going to be the best all of the time, in all conditions for every rider.
So Giant must think that a 650b bike is the best compromise for average riders on average terrain...
BTW, I have a Anthem 29 and with out doubt its the best bike I have owned to date.
My Anthem is a rocket ship and on loose moderately technical and moderately steep climbs its much much better than any of my previous bikes but on the other hand its feels unwieldy on tight switchbacks such as those at Cardinham near Bodmin.
On any trail there will be sections were a 26 is best, another section might work better on a 29 maybe a 650b will sit somewhere in the middle. Not to mention difefrences in riding styles and preffed terrain
At the end of the day, all things considered I really dont think it matters what wheel size you have for most people.
mduncombe - MemberSo Giant must think that a 650b bike is the best compromise for average riders on average terrain..
Oh come on... Giant think that 650b is most marketable. Does anybody really believe the 650b exodus is about performance? Santa Cruz don't, and admitted as much... Giant you can judge by their actions, 29er was the best until they decided to get on the 650b bandwagon, then 650b was the best, and suddenly their 29ers were never that good despite what they told us last month.
It's not about the bike.
I watch this whole debate with bemused interest. Personally, if Giant decide to drop their 29er range, I think that would be a great pity. The Trance X 29 I have on long term test continues to impress me with just how capable and versatile a bike it is. Every time I take it into the big mountains, I come back with a grin on my face and genuine surprise at how well it handles loose, steep, tight and rocky trails compared to my normal 5 Spot set up with Lyriks at the front.
I had the pleasure of riding Binnean Mor a couple of weeks ago which features pretty much the full gamut of technical trail feature. Exposed, tight switchbacks were dispatched with ease, rock gardens were plowed through with a confidence that I'd normally reserve for beefier longer travel forks.
I've nothing to gain by bigging up Giant but in my experience of their Trance X 29, they've come up with a very capable bike that can probably do everything that the vast majority of riders will ever ask of it short of freeride and downhill. I started the test with an open mind as to what the bike would be capable of and it's fair to say it's more than capable when trails turn steep and technical. 😀
Is 650b better? Who knows? However, it will be pretty bloody impressive if it can equal or better the Trance 29er. 😀
It's not about the bike.
cant disagree with that, although I always ride better and faster on a new bike 🙂
Maybe Giant are doing this not just to extract more money from the punters I doubt many large corps are that competent.
I can see Giant as having convinced themselves about 29 but then came across some issues that they were not happy with but were already commited to production. Then when they were able to they addressed them.
I work for a large electronic company in product development, product decisons are not always made on whats best but rather on deadlines, ticking boxes and development/production resources.
besides, will 29er owners now feel the need to go out and buy a 650b, of course not unless they are so insecure about not having the latest thing.
Lets say 650b really takes of and 26/29 wheels disapear completely, well by the time they do its most likely going to be about time for a new bike anyway. Based on me having 5 mountain bikes over a period of 25 years.
Its not about the wheel size, its about some people being upset that they dont have the latest thing anymore. Most people dont care and just go and ride what they have in the shed.
[quote=mduncombe ]
On any trail there will be sections were a 26 is best, another section might work better on a 29 maybe a 650b will sit somewhere in the middle. I think the point is that 650B isn't in the middle (despite the marketeers trying to suggest otherwise with the 27.5 moniker). It's a very small change from 26" that must, therefore, bring minor "improvements" whilst still requiring significant change in equipment specifications and compatibility.
Despite the way this thread has gone, I'm not sure that Giant have said that they will kill the 29ers in their range. Just that they'd like to. Presumably they'd be much happier if they could just use one wheel size across their range and think (with enough of a marketing push) that it might be possible if they go for 650b. But, as I understand it, the 29er Anthem and Trance will still be available in 2014. So, presumably, they'll look at what people are buying and see whether they have managed to put enough people off the 29ers to be able to drop them. People like Sanny probably don't help though 🙂
"enough marketing push ... to use one wheel size" - now that's ironic
edit - not getting at you roverpig - as you say it is a slow day
I think jameso has the most-convincing response here.
Spesh are going big on 29ers, Trek are making Fuels and Remedys in all three wheel sizes (for now) and Giant have seen which way the wind is blowing and said "**** that, we're betting it all on 27.5".
It'll probably end up tipping the balance too.
(I'm still sticking with 26" though)
"enough marketing push ... to use one wheel size" - now that's ironic
edit: No worries mate 🙂
Yes, I can't say I have much sympathy for them. it's a problem pretty much entirely of their own making. But I can't see how supporting multiple wheel sizes makes good business sense in the long term and I bet there are a few marketing folk wishing that they'd never opened this can of worms in the first place.
LOL at Roverpig! 😀
I suppose I could say that the Trance X 29 is now old technology, a poor execution of a design, rubbish for technical riding etc but the reality is that it's none of those things. It's a bloody good bike that if I'm honest has taken a helluva beating from me but is still going strong. I suspect that I'm not a typical rider given my penchant for carrying up big hills just to ride back down them but that probably says more about me than the bike! If anyone is unsure what to buy, try both and then decide though if you are expecting a wagon wheel bike that struggles in technical terrain, you may well be very pleasantly surprised. I genuinely wonder if consumers realise how good a bike the Trance 29 is? 😆
[i]I genuinely wonder if consumers realise how good a bike the Trance 29 is?[/i]
I've just switched to a 29er and wonder the same thing about the spesh stumpy fsr evo.
How many times have you gone for the 5 spot over the Trance 29er? Not many i bet
Just out of interest Sanny, would you say that you generally like to move the bike around at every opportunity, just for the hell of it, or do you prefer to plough through things (if you see what I mean). I tend to find that on those big days out (not that I do enough of them and not as big as some of yours) I'm wanting the bike to be stable, efficient and just to disappear so that I can enjoy the environment. So, the more stuff it can plough through without any input from me the better.