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I tend to wear things out before change
Who has stolen Hora's account?
Spot on with that. I shall now wait and see what the score is on wheel size before I make another purchase of frame or bike.
+1. If 650B is an industry scheme to make us all 'upgrade' its going to fail in the short term. A lot of people are saying they're going to hold off until it becomes clear which way the wind's blowing.
The "future" will be 650b for a while and back to 26" saying cap in hand "we were wrong" and we all have to buy new tyres again.
probably this - and the bike industry shouldn't be unhappy - they will have succeeded in using wheel sizes to generate extra sales for a few years
^ You mean those 'all new' lighter, stronger more agile 26" wheels.
I've already got some, yes I'm that ahead of the game 😉
It warms my heart to see such resistance to the utterly pointless and entirely forced on us con job that is 650b.
Just keep hold of your old 26er .or 29er.....when the sales are of 650b are catastrophic .......Gaint may re-think their strategy .....you as a consumer control the market ..not them ........other bikes are available ...
yes me to it would amuse me no end if every just did not buy a bike till they knew which size won
It is most definitely not consumer led
Sorry, what's all this about? A wheel size debate?
I've been too busy enjoying riding my bike to realise, are the new ones rounder?
I was in a Giant retailer a couple of weeks ago getting new bearings for my MkI trance and had a sit on the 29er version. The salesguy explained that 650b was like big tyres on a 26" and that 29er was the way to go but they'd sold out of my size. So thank you, I have mahoosive tyres already and like them for rocky rides. I was thinking of a buying 29er but I'll save the money for something else now...
scandal42 - Memberare the new ones rounder?
YES, according to the french, the ones that mavic supplied to TeamGB at the olympics...
Northwind - Membercore - Member
Why do people get peeved that their bike is discontinued? It won't make any difference to it,
Resale value is definitely a factor... A used Five lost about half its value the day they announced it was "obsolete", partly because new stock went straight in the sales and partly because fickle mountain bikers don't want the old model, even if yesterday it was the new model. If you bought a Five the day before they announced the 650b Five, you took a knee square in the assets.
That's not actually true though, is it. I keep a close eye on the second hand prices of the 5 as I might be changing mine and if anything the price of 26" 5's has gone up.
I've watched used 2012/13 5's go for only a couple of hundred quid less then you can get a new one for in the sales. Madness.
With all the fuss about 27.5 not being 27.5 why didn't they just make them 27.5 in the first place? 😕
its all too confusing
i was planning to upgrade my frame but for what I want new frames only seem to be 650b
but that means new forks, wheels, tyres, none of which are available s/h or on sale in 650b flavour
so instead im now contemplating buying a complete bike
which is bollox because id much rather build up to my own spec
so the bike industry gets a lot more money out of me than i wouldve spent if there was no new fangled wheel sizes
Er, just buy a nice s/h frame to match your current wheels.
chestrockwell - MemberThat's not actually true though, is it. I keep a close eye on the second hand prices of the 5 as I might be changing mine and if anything the price of 26" 5's has gone up.
I saw well used frames selling for very nearly what you can buy a new frame for now. That's not happening any more.
kimbers - Memberits all too confusing
i was planning to upgrade my frame but for what I want new frames only seem to be 650b
but that means new forks, wheels, tyres, none of which are available s/h or on sale in 650b flavour
650b frames are a bit like 44mm headtubes; your old wheels/forks will fit, i bet you won't even notice the 'wrongness'.
it'll feel different, but mostly because it'll be a new frame.
Northwind - Memberchestrockwell - Member
That's not actually true though, is it. I keep a close eye on the second hand prices of the 5 as I might be changing mine and if anything the price of 26" 5's has gone up.
I saw well used frames selling for very nearly what you can buy a new frame for now. That's not happening any more.
Were they for sale or were they sold?
From what I've seen the frame prices have stayed around the same, between £550 to £850 for a 2009+ depending on condition. Seen some go for £1000+ but they tend to be nearly new and mint. One sold on ebay for £1000 yesterday. How 'very nearly' do you mean?
Full bike wise 2009+ were going for £1200 to £1800. They are starting at £1500 now with some people thinking they can get £2000+ for a 2011 when you can have a brand new Pro for £2300 🙄
That was sold, for sale means nowt.
More importantly, what are handlebar manufacturers going to do?
- Risers for 26"
- Flats for 29ers
Are we going to get a new 'standard' for handlebars for 650b?
Never mind handlebars, we can all look forward to new "standards" for stems / headsets/ cranks / BB etc etc.
Marketing departments must be paying overtime to come up with more bollox to jump on this band wagon.
we can all look forward to new "standards" for stems / headsets/ cranks / BB etc etc.
[url= http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/technology/overdrive/50/ ]Giant have form for this, of course.[/url]
Giant knows a thing or two about inventing solutions
for problems that aren't there? 😉
However much we moan about bike companies trying to screw money out of us, nothing's going to change while we live in a capitalist society. Bike companies are commercial organisations who make money (and therefore keep trading, employing people, paying dividends to shareholders etc) by selling bikes and frames at the maximum profit that they can achieve per item. That's their sole imperative. And the bigger the company, the more driven they are to keep selling bikes and frames. "Market feedback" = "what's selling", pure and simple (it's why Santa Cruz got into 650b for the Bronson and Solo – and they're happy to admit it). I would imagine that Giant have seen their slice of the 29er market contract (there could be loads of reasons for this: 18.2" chainstays may be one of them) and they've probably worked out that full suspension is still out-selling hard tails. Possibly, they've also worked out that the cheapest way to keep selling new bikes at the maximum profit is by re-tooling for 650b (which need only be *very slightly* different than 26") rather than re-develop the Maestro platform across all their bikes (I'm guessing here, in all honesty).
I'm not trying to be condescending, but there's really only one reason that any bike company would jump on the 650b bandwagon; they think they can make a profit by doing so. And if that company the size of Giant (see what I did there?) with all their resources and experience (and half an eye on all the other bikes they build for other brands) they're probably right.
there's more to being a giant than size 😉
they've probably worked out that full suspension is still out-selling hard tails.
I'd be surprised if this is correct without seeing the figures, as I'd expect the majority of 'mountain bikes' sold to be in the sub £600 price range.
Northwind - Member
That was sold, for sale means nowt.
I know and that's why I asked the question.
Anyone at any time paying nearly list for a well used 5 frame has been seen coming a mile off. A tiny bit of research would show they over paid. If you know these people please tell them to PM me as I have a 2009 frame they can have for a bargain £1100. 😉
check this out for some marketing / science / spiel, there is also the 27.5 giant range shown too
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/showcase/anthem-27-5/#customtechpage
well, all this does is confirm that I won't be buying a new bike any time soon
well, all this does is confirm that I won't be buying a new bike any time soon
yup me too, either gonna ride all my 26" wheeled bikes into the ground or over to retrobike 🙂
...and both of my current Giant 29ers are now, in Giants eyes at least, Sh1t..
well that was 3k well spent.. 😳
If 650B is the new 26 then I'm putting my money on a new niche wheel size that's slightly bigger than 29. just need to chew over sizes with my marketing friends. I'll be on Kickstarter if anyone needs me
Andypaul - that really is the message after basically 1-2 seasons (1 for the trance) and that is what is annoying.
Zokes +1 with the caveat that the new bikes do look nice! The trance 2 in stealth black. I wish giant would let you chose the frame colour and then spec accordingly. The 1s tend to be in goppy colours IMO. The new anthem 3 in red, black and white looks nicer than the 1 and 2 IMO!
The Trance SX looks like a nice bike too (despite the copper colour)
check this out for some marketing / science / spiel, there is also the 27.5 giant range shown toohttp://www.giant-bicycles.com/showcase/anthem-27-5/#customtechpage
It's all relative though, looking at that webpage all of the 3 wheel sizes have advantages and all have disadvantages. 27.5 claims to be better at climbing but if that climb is loose and rocky then 29 gains an advantage due to better traction and rollover.
So I dont see how you can say one is better than the others as during an one ride there are going to be sections that at some point favour any of the sizes. so that means at the end of the day over the course of a ride it makes sod all difference what size wheel you are riding.
so just ride what you have and enjoy it!
Yes, that's a brilliant piece of pseudo-science. Graphs and everything 🙂 Funny, last year we were being told that 29ers climbed better due to better roll over and improved traction, conveniently ignoring the extra weight. Now we are being told that 650b climbs better due to lower weight, conveniently ignoring the roll over. Of course, in practice, it all depends on the climb that you choose.
Yes, that's a brilliant piece of pseudo-science. Graphs and everything Funny, last year we were being told that 29ers climbed better due to better roll over and improved traction, conveniently ignoring the extra weight. Now we are being told that 650b climbs better due to lower weight, conveniently ignoring the roll over. Of course, in practice, it all depends on the climb that you choose.
Or how strong your legs are
I love Giant's faux science explanations! They're a triumph of marketing over engineering truth, the likes of which the 1950s tobacco industry would have been proud of. 650b is a magic compromise which manages to be more like 26" when smaller is better (agility) and more like 29" when bigger is better (rolling). 😛
Just "enjoyed" the new website and marketing spiel over a coffee. Hats off to them for some quality spin and classy video! I was almost taken in!! Proof will be in the testing I guess as always.
So I dont see how you can say one is better than the others as during an one ride there are going to be sections that at some point favour any of the sizes. so that means at the end of the day over the course of a ride it makes sod all difference what size wheel you are riding.
This
Coincidentally, I opened up a slightly older bike mag yesterday- an STW I think- and found inside the front cover a massive Giant ad about how 29ers are definitely the future and you have to be a retard to buy anything else 😆
Orange 5 swing arm please
No problem. Here you go 🙂
[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/orange-5-frame-swing-arm-2012-L-k-at-pictures-five-/221257888671?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Fragrances_Women_s_Fragrances_PP&hash=item3383ff739f ]ebay: Orange Five Swing Arm[/url]
A call out to the engineers, can you do the sums please?
There's a guy over on the Pinkbike thread that has, and he claims the relationship between the sizes is linear as you would expect, and things like the contact patch area doesn't change with wheel size, just the shape of it.
Even for a non engineer, Giant's claims look highly spurious, with specific numbers quoted where it evidently suits them, and positive general comments seemingly conveniently made to spin the position when the numbers aren't much closer than halfway. Maybe they should fess up that 27.5 doesn't sit halfway between the two because the actual size isn't halfway between the two. Pretty low effort IMO.
zokes - Member
well, all this does is confirm that I won't be buying a new bike any time soonPOSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Dickyboy - Member
well, all this does is confirm that I won't be buying a new bike any time soon
yup me too, either gonna ride all my 26" wheeled bikes into the ground or over to retrobikePOSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
+1
I was gonna build a 29er a month or two back, then couldn't find forks I wanted, gave up, now upgrading all my 26er kit, it won't be long before it all comes back around!
A call out to the engineers, can you do the sums please?There's a guy over on the Pinkbike thread that has, and he claims the relationship between the sizes is linear as you would expect, and things like the contact patch area doesn't change with wheel size, just the shape of it.
Even for a non engineer, Giant's claims look highly spurious, with specific numbers quoted where it evidently suits them, and positive general comments seemingly conveniently made to spin the position when the numbers aren't much closer than halfway. Maybe they should fess up that 27.5 doesn't sit halfway between the two because the actual size isn't halfway between the two. Pretty low effort IMO.
I don't have the time to do the sums but the relationship is indeed linear. And as the diameters are 559, 584 and 622, the nominal 'wheel' sizes with a big tyre are 27", 28" and 29.5". Or with a small tyre, 26", 27" and 28.5".
I won't be buying a new bike anytime soon
Nor me, lack of money though rather than fretting over wheel size, if I had cash it'd be 27.5 though