[Closed] Gaining time with a top end road bike

what do you ride now

how long does it take you now

how hard are you trying

No, defo 10 mins fasterer

Absolutely, probably moar!

If you're currently running, yes.

The only reason I'm getting my arse handed to me in road races is lack of carbonz, if I had moar I'd win, no doubt.

I just upgraded from a £1.5k bike to a £4k one and my Strava times up climbs have tumbled for two reasons:

1. It's lighter, but I don't think the kilo I lost is so much the cause as...
2. It's better at getting the power on the deck while remaining a bit compliant for longer rides.

So, yes, I think so.

Only if you clean it with GT85..

3. I'm riding a 4 grand bike - better put some effort in

You'd also be more attractive to wimmin

I would say yes. I gained a couple of minutes over a 20k route by having a lighter carbon bike.

Buy a 3 grand bike, spend the other 3 on coaching...

2. It's better at getting the power on the deck while remaining a bit compliant for longer rides.

Stiff and vertically compliant? ZOMGoffferz!

DezB - Member
You'd also be more attractive to wimmin

and blokes

#equalityforum

Buy one of your mates a £1500 scooter and get him to motorpace you for 50 miles..

bikes just over 8kg , I am 85kg

50 miles undulating, 3000ft climbing, takes about 2.40-2.50 depending on a couple of route choices

I'm trying maybe 80% but drops off the last 10 miles or so

edit

i don't want a new bike, i'm just curious i guess

Buy a 3 grand bike, spend the other 3 on coaching...

Ha! Yes, that as well. Except it's more to do with having nothing to blame for the slowness.

Why do you need to save 5 mins? If you really want to know then you need to know your power and cda, you can then spend some time with Aerolab etc..

what sort of a question is that?

because thats 5 mins more time i get in the pub.

because thats 5 mins more time i get in the pub.

how about we forget the time constraints i seem to have put on myself and say

"with reference to the original post, how much quicker would i be" ?

Would having a £6000+ 1.5-2kg lighter roady give me 5mins over, say 50miles?

Maybe as a placebo effect.

ok what about a [b]free[/b] 7kg bike say

Is the bike red?

One of my riding buddies has a ~£10K Parlee. It's very, very bling. I can say I notice him being any quicker particularly than when he on his ordinary bike..... although that is an Sworks 🙂

no its green

Probably slower then.

I saw a woman on a Dogma at th weekend and she looked like she'd been dropped and was going very slowly

bikes just over 8kg , I am 85kg

50 miles undulating, 3000ft climbing, takes about 2.40-2.50 depending on a couple of route choices

So you're looking at losing 2% of your total weight and wondering if that will make you 3% faster?

SESSION 1
do you set off with 2 full bottles? if so, drink a pint of water before leaving, and have a 500ml bidon only half full during your ride
there you go, 1 kg lost, I'll give you this first coaching session FOC 🙂

SESSION 2
Do you come home feeling quite tired but spiritually refreshed? in that case you're not pushing yourself hard enough, don't come back if you aren't on the verge of cramps and spewing. There you go, session 2 FOC as well 🙂

being sensible, a nice new bike is a great thing, don't be ashamed to buy one if you can afford it, but purchase and speed are not caused by each other

^^ that'll do.

end of discussion.

Why does price come into it?

My 8kg Giant Propel# with aero frame, wheels, helmet and skinsuit is about 0.5-1 mph faster (for the same power) than my 7kg Giant Defy without the accouterments. That's for races of 30-60 miles.

You are realistically looking to save one water bottle. Being fitter means you won't need to drink the second bottle anyway 😉

#And the new RED bartape makes it even faster. In fact, it is the fastest speed/pound so far 8)

You will use less watts to maintain the same speed (all else being equal) on the lighter bike.

I would say yes. I gained a couple of minutes over a 20k route by having a lighter carbon bike.

bollocks

as they say, its not about the bike

[URL= http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/ScreenShot2014-09-08at212109_zps6b879834.pn g" target="_blank">http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/ScreenShot2014-09-08at212109_zps6b879834.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

You can only lose time with a red, light bike. FACT 😀

So the video basically says dropping 1kg of weight from either the bike or body is worth 0.025W/kg (assuming the 8% incline I guess). For a pretty average 70kg person that is a massive saving of 1.75W. Basically, within the error of the Powermeter used and treadmill speed accuracy too, i.e. pretty insignificant.

I did my own quick tests with 3 climbs of a 1km hill with a really nice, constant 10% gradient and smooth tarmac, first with 4kg of bottles in a bag, then without any extra weight. There was only an average difference of 6W (and around the same number of seconds) which isn't much more than the measurement error of the Stages crank and natural variability (changing the average cadence by 1rpm made a bigger difference to the average power output over the climb- i.e. get fitter and push 1rpm faster rather than lose 4kg off you and the bike).

My take is that in theory there are gains to losing weight off the bike but these are small in reality and, just like the video said, most people can lose much more from themselves and even these larger savings are a very small % change for the average mincer/ MAMIL. 20km climbs for pros racing for seconds, maybe but in the real world most the bike is hardly the weakest link for most people. Light bikes are awesome though 😳

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/is-your-dna-slowing-you-down-42172/

Hmm funny thing is losing weight off self is free whilst losing weight off bike is £££££
And everyone seems to want to go the ££££ way.

I think training an motivation are worth more IMHO

My road bike was £250 second hand and consequently it is very slow, so yes at least. Lets say I bought an £8k bike, thats a massive 64X faster than mine. I'm in.

I bought an expensive carbon bike and it made me faster...
1. I figured that if I rode a £3k bike slowly I'd look like an ATGNI MAMIL so I'd better get fit and ride it properly!
2. It's a gorgeous bike to ride so I ride it lots and stay out longer... and so I'm fitter.

It does feel a lot more efficient at putting out whatever my legs can put in (compared to my steel winter bike for instance) but I've not quantified this in any scientific manner.

So yes, buying a better bike may well make you faster, but £6k seems excessive to me - £2.5/3k would seem to be enough to buy you a good frame with a lightweight group IMO

jontykint - Member
I am 85kg

I'm going to see if I can borrow one of the lads lightweight bikes next weekend.

Do people not carry a tube/pack/tool etrc to save bike weight?

Does it make a difference how you carry it? E.g on bike or on person in jersey?

Good post danw.

1kg of weight from either the bike or body is worth 0.025W/kg (assuming the 8% incline I guess). For a pretty average 70kg person that is a massive saving of 1.75W

You might save some time but it'll be minimal. Basically 2kg saves around 2 minutes up Alpduez according to this link. I doubt you'll be climbing a hill such as this.

[url= http://www.training4cyclists.com/how-much-time-does-extra-weight-cost-on-alpe-dhuez/ ]Link[/url]

An aero bike will probably save you more. And Id say the the difference between a 6k bike and a 3 k one weighing close to UCI limit would be virtually nil. Youd be better making sure your tyres are pumped up...

The more you spend, the better the frame and the lighter the componentry. Weight savings on the bike are going to make some difference. And if you rode your old 9kg bike with a pair of 750ml bottles full to brimming and half a kilo of tools and do the same with your new 8kg one, it's still a kilo lighter

Carbon layup is done rapidly and cheaply on mass produced frames, they're still better than an aluminium frame (well, most are) but they spend very little time getting it right. Layup is so much better in a more expensive frame and it shows. Hence my surprise at the amount of kick that turned into forward motion on a frame that is still comfortable over 50 miles.

£2.5k tcr advanced sl frame.....won bugger all.
£350 Px RT57 frame....won slightly more.
QED I think you'll find.

Hence my surprise at the amount of kick that turned into forward motion on a frame that is still comfortable over 50 miles.

Is it laterally stiff yet vertically compliant?

If I had a 6k bike I'd try harder.

🙄
So much BS on one thread.

It's getting close to the bike weight threads.

Obviously a top end super light bike will be a bit quicker, but thats not the point. Most of all it will be a joy to ride. Mine's worth every penny, and very much adds to my cycling pleasure 😀 for us mortals surely thats the only consideration.

Definitely quicker on a £6000 bike - think how much lighter your wallet will be!

Over 40 miles my crap, heavy Kaffenback is under 1mph slower than my light, very stiff Orbea. The Orbea certainly feels faster, hell, it looks a lot better too, but in the real world it seems to make virtually no difference.

**Non-scientific anecdote alert**

There's a segment on my normal commute, which by virtue of being on my commute I've done 307 times as of this morning.

This has principally been done on two bikes:

22lb Allez with mud guards and that
17lb Madone without mudguards and that

At various times I've had a real dig on this segment (it's 0.7 miles, a shallow (2% average) climb, normally I just plod up it, depends on wind, whether I'm KoM or not etc etc. Just downloaded the average stats (and removed the times there were traffic lights on it) for the two bikes and the results are as follows:

Allez:
176 attempts
2:38:56 average
1:50 fastest

Madone:
69 attempts
2:37:32 average
1:48 fastest

So... on that segment it makes sod all difference - 1.2 seconds, or roughly 0.9% difference. That's over 2 years and various levels of fitness. Annoyingly you can't download power data from Veloviewer, as I've always got a PowerTap on the Allez, and often have it on the Madone too.

So, through the miracle of woeful extrapolation, and to answer the OP's question if the Madone was consistently 0.9% faster, and your 50 miles took 3 hours then I'd be 1.62 minutes faster. I think.

So, through the miracle of woeful extrapolation, and to answer the OP's question if the Madone was consistently 0.9% faster, and your 50 miles took 3 hours then I'd be 1.62 minutes faster. I think.

...if the whole of the 50 miles was a shallow climb.

In reality, whilst you have very good data there - far better quality than the usual anecdotal stuff - I reckon <1% variation is within experimental error, especially given that I can believe there might be a general trend to push slightly harder on average on the nicer bike (it might not be something you're aware of, but pushing hard 25% of the time on the Madone vs 15% of the time on the Allez could be enough to skew the figures that much).

Agree, plus I generally ride the Allez in the winter/bad weather and the Madone in the summer, so there's an inherent fitness/weather thing as well.

Doesn't get around the fact the Madone is vastly nicer to ride!

Agree, plus I generally ride the Allez in the winter/bad weather and the Madone in the summer, so there's an inherent fitness/weather thing as well.

This. I am consistently faster on the nice plastic bike, but that gets ridden when the sun is shining and the roads are dry. Heavy old bike with guards comes out when it's cold/wet/windy and I'm usually wrapped up doing steady miles. I doubt one is that much quicker than the other, but one is certainly nicer to ride 🙂

I can't argue with that - I'm also far faster on my nice bike, the difference being far more significant than could be attributed to any inherent difference in the bikes. Though that does remind me of one difference in Nick's bikes I didn't pick up - like my winter bike, his Allez has mudguards, and if anything I'm actually surprised they don't lose him more than 1%.

Depends what colour it is.
When I bought a good carbon bike my average increased and I set a load of new PR's. I don't think it was much to do with the bikes function though over than making me want to ride because I also lost 20kg and can now quite happily beat PR's on my old bike and set just as high average.

An aero bike will probably save you more

losing a 5kg paunch and getting some core strength/flexibility to actually get ‘aero’ would probably save you more.

Though that does remind me of one difference in Nick's bikes I didn't pick up - like my winter bike, his Allez has mudguards, and if anything I'm actually surprised they don't lose him more than 1%.

I must admit I was actually surprised it was that little. There is more often a tail wind in winter, which is perhaps contributory - it's why I'd be interested to get power or HR data. The standard deviation on the Allez is 12.41 seconds, and on the Madone is 14.31, which is really surprising, so actually a tighter spread on the Allez.

The fastest average is actually the day I rode my Top Fuel to work in the snow - 2:35, so, according to statistics, a 26" FS bike is fastest!

Do people not carry a tube/pack/tool etrc to save bike weight?

Maybe those who enjoy walking home!

The only time I don't carry what I need to get me home in most circumstances is when I'm racing.

If I'm out training on the race bike, I'll still have mini pump in my jersey or jacket pocket and tube/levers/prk/multi-tool in a small saddle pack. Compared to the combined weight of body and bike, its insignificant.

Agreed, always carry tube(s)/pump/multitool with chain tool.

njee20

Thats good stuff

1% isn't nothing and would be huge could be critical in a competitive enviroment

My road bike is a hard tail with slicks. So would a cheap road bike be faster?

If you want to save 5mins off your ride, go just a little bit less far, thus saving 5mins off your ride time with no additional bike cost. Just ensure that the bit you cut out isnt right at the end or you'll not make it home

Equally you can have this tip free of charge

Compact?

Just set off 5 minutes earlier??

Just go slowly when riding the old bike. Should make improving by 5 minutes a lot easier.

"You might save some time but it'll be minimal. Basically 2kg saves around 2 minutes up Alpduez according to this link."

Not even 2 minutes! As someone else mentioned in the comments section, if you normalise for power variations then 1.8kg weight added increases energy cost by 3%, so approximately 1-1.5 minutes saved over a 50 minute climb. Mass on frame vs mass on wheels was insignificant, as was reducing tyre pressure. Not scientific or super robust but it does show only minimal advantage to weight loss from the bike.

"0.7 miles, a shallow (2% average) climb"

Only problem with your large dataset Nick... since when is a 0.7 mile stretch of road with a 2% average gradient considered a climb? 🙂 That's an aero test 😉

Actually I seem to remember reading that the drag due to mass increases quite quickly from anything over just a few % gradient which is quite surprising, but also that for most average roadies climbing speeds, aero is more important than mass until about 10-12% gradient. Maybe someone can correct this?

Hence saying shallow! I just meant that it goes uphill, it's not steep by any stretch!

I did add HR and power data to the sample, but was still playing with it to get it right. At first glance the Madone was higher HR, lower power. But only a couple of bpm/watts either way.

Right, put HR and power numbers against my rides now:

Allez:
176 attempts
2:38:56 average
1:50 fastest
169bpm average HR (max 195bpm)
223w average power (max 364w)

Madone:
69 attempts
2:37:32 average
1:48 fastest
162bpm average HR (max 190bpm)
217w average power (max 270w)

So... I try harder on the Allez, in both power and HR, but go slower for it. So that's what you'd expect. Data sample for power on the Madone is quite small, and the 270w is a bit weird - wasn't a fast ride, wonder if that was when it needed calibrating. So... still vastly unscientific, but there you go.