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Front end wandering...
 

[Closed] Front end wandering - 456

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[#4053152]

Built up my new poo brown 456 today and took it out for a spin on some of Bristol's non bikefest trails.

Not cut the steerer yet so have a ridiculous stack and a 90mm stem which is clearly too long as it handles like a barge. Good fun though, can't wait to have it 100% fettled.

One thing though, when riding in a straight line the front end was wandering from side to side, as though the front wheel was wanting to turn either side of it's own accord, obviously more than just the normal balance action...

Any ideas?

I'm putting it down to a combination of the stem and a fairly squidgy On-One Smoothie headset which I'm not too impressed with. Possibly also the disappointing Maxxis Ignitors I've nicked off my FS.

For what it's worth, I'm running MAvic XC717s and a Reba 120mm with 20mm boltthrough.

H


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 1:18 am
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What are you used to riding?


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 1:25 am
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FS Kona Dawg and a Genesis Equilibrium.

What I'm feeling is quite a strong side-to-side pull from the wheel/bars. More than on any other bike I've ridden.

Wondering if it's a fork alignment problem but I'm probably overthinking this.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 1:28 am
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Overtight headset can cause some weird deathweave effects...

My Smoothie headset was pish, incidentally, but it did work fine from new- just that the bearing life was measured in hours.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 1:42 am
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Headset, if anything, is undertight (but not loose). This was because I had to crank it up to get the races to meet and then back it right off to allow me to actually turn the bastard. Not overly impressed with it so new headset on my shopping list anyway.

Could it still be that?


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 1:53 am
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Yes quite easily

Sounds like you ****ed the bearings by " cranking" it up


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 7:10 am
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If you've overly cranked it up you may have pressed the balls into the race causing small pits. This would make each ball jump to the next pit, possibly causing your wheel wandering.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 8:49 am
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I have just opened it all up and the races seem completed fine and pit free.

Fair enough, I didn't really crank it up massively, just enough to set the crown race into the lower cup. If you have owned one of these headsets you'll know what I mean.

The top bearings are needle roller bearings and the join here seems to squidge a little. Basically, I think it's a crap headset and will be binning it shortly.

H


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 4:59 pm
 br
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Bars too narrow, plus long stem - and/or wheel bearings shot?


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 5:06 pm
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One thing though, when riding in a straight line the front end was wandering from side to side, as though the front wheel was wanting to turn either side of it's own accord, obviously more than just the normal balance action...

Any ideas?

It might be a stupid thing to ask, but have you got your forks pointing the right way?


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 5:10 pm
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Fair point, but they are definitely the right way round...

New wheels so bearings good.

Bars possibly on the narrow side but nothing drastic. Stem definitely too long for me but other people run the same length stem or long than mine with 120mm forks on this frame and have no problem.

Getting new tyres, bars, stem and eventually headset one, some or all of these things should eliminate it.

H


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 5:53 pm
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Tbh a long. Stem would help a light front end.

Narrow bars would be twitchy rather than wandering

My 456 wanders all over when climbing due to rediculous head angle with z150s on


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 5:57 pm
 IHN
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Are you using a layback post? I did and found the front a bit wandery esp. on climbs). Swapping to an inline post really planted the front end down.

I [i]think[/i] that the 456 is designed for an inline post, although Mr Richards would obviously know for sure.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 6:05 pm
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Under inflated tyre?


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 6:14 pm
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inline post yes.

tyres @40 pounds

yes, it's not a twitchy front end its an active pull to one side, then I correct it, then it pulls to the other. More than just the usual front-end balance feeling.

I think it's the headset. I bought the headset second hand and although it looks sound internally, I don't think it's bang on.

Perhaps the head tube needs reaming/facing too?

Good excuse to get a Chris King and let the LBS get the big cutting toys out...

H


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 6:41 pm
 IHN
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Knackered headset - probably, esp if it's actually pulling rather than twitchy.

Facing - nah, never needed to on my two 456's to date.

You could have had mine with a perfect headset fitted 😉


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 6:47 pm
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Anyone got any tips for setting up an On-One Smoothie headset?

The lower bearings surfaces had to be screwed on (via the star nut) to fit them together and the top bearing has some lateral squidge to it, i.e. it doesn't feel perfectly tight.

H


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 6:54 pm
 mrmo
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if the front end is wandering i would suggest you need more weight on the front, shorter forks, longer stem, inline post can be dangerous depending on how tolerant your knees are to changing position.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 7:44 pm
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I've had my own 456-SS (Med) together for a couple of weeks now 50mm stem with 710mm flat bars (20mm of spacers under the stem) with 110mm forks...

While it doesn't "wander" as such (in fact it feels pretty stable on the climbs) the steering is quite 'light' or 'responsive' a bit too much input on the bars and I find I'm having to correct a bit, but if you're on the ball it's pretty nice to ride on the downs...

Post is a HiLo (so basically and inline post)

Also are you sure it's not the front tire washing sideways a bit? 40psi is a bit High (IMO of course, but I'm using ~20F/25R)...


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 8:04 pm
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What width tyres? 717's quite narrow rims. My conti verts 2.3's would squirm all over the place on my 717's. Movement in the front hub / quick release / maxle?


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 8:22 pm
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The first ride out I had on a 456 shitted me out on the descents. But I persisted because it performs loads of other functions very well. Eventually, after numerous changes of bar, stem, fork, seatpost, I gave up.

Don't persist...get something else.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 8:28 pm
 mboy
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Good excuse to get a Chris King and let the LBS get the big cutting toys out...

Haha, you didn't wanna spend the money on the frame (important), but you're happy to now spend it on a massive waste of money (CK headset)?!?!

Seriously, buy a brand new £20 FSA XL2, or an Orbit, and whack that in. Just as smooth as a CK, and will last pretty much as long as long as looked after. My Orbit Extreme Pro is a £90 headset, with a 10yr warranty, shop around you can pick em up for £35! Oh, and they're better than CK IMO.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 8:37 pm
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The first ride out I had on a 456 shitted me out on the descents. But I persisted because it performs loads of other functions very well. Eventually, after numerous changes of bar, stem, fork, seatpost, I gave up.

Don't persist...get something else.

Really?

Total oposite for me, far more stable and easier to control on descents than the frame that preceded it... horses for courses I suppose.


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 9:08 pm
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Mines built up with all my old dh kit and descends with the best of them . Out in the alps and local dh

717 rim is nothing to do with conti verts squirming - they were just shite tires


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 10:25 pm
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I would get the headset sorted and fit a shorter stem. Then see how it goes.

Went from a 70mm stem to a 55mm stem on my C456 and love it. (also went from 660mm bars to 750mm ones and love them too!)


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 10:34 pm
 br
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[i]I bought the headset second hand and although it looks sound internally[/i]

New frame, s/h headset... 🙄


 
Posted : 10/06/2012 10:34 pm
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For the record, both the frame and headset were second hand...

Also, mboy, I was joking about going out and buying a king headset...

As a matter if fact I have sorted it for now, found this thread:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/on-one-smoothie-headset-fitting-woes

And did what the guy tried, fitted a big spacer (technically too big) and now everything has married up inside the headset and no more pulling. However, new better headset on the shopping list...

H


 
Posted : 11/06/2012 12:18 am