[Closed] French Alps MTB guiding row in the Telegraph

@slowoldgit
I'm not in any way trying to defend the French government for what they did in Auckland, but I don't see a) what relevance it has to the debate about equivalence in mountain bike guiding qualifications or b) how it proves that an entire country of 66 million people is both racist and corrupt.

@slowoldgit
GB sinks the Belgrano
USA downs Iran air flight
Russia Downs Korea Air flight
and countless other examples of things a government has done that does not represent the will/intention/traits of it's entire population

Calling France racist and corrupt is completely unacceptable and Trail Addiction have now in my eyes passed the boundary of decency. It will do you no good. This is a public forum and not just for Brits. I suggest if you feel like that then you and your business should leave the country. I suggest the mods take a view on whether this thread should be closed to avoid it getting further out of hand.

Grum, have you ever visited France let alone lived or worked there ?

By the way, Bernie Ecclestone wants to borrow your Rose tinted specs, after that it might be a good idea to get them back "Sharpish" because he's likely to hand them over to FIFA, who knows how long they will have them.

This bloke is living through something we are merely commenting on and in good old STW fashion everyone's right and he's wrong. It makes me laugh !

I don't know this bloke from Adam but admire his balls and the way he's stood up for what he thinks is right. On foreign soil standing on the edge of the unknown !
I wouldn't think twice about booking a week away with TA and riding with his guides.

And as for dragging his business acumin through the dirt on a Forum, who's daftest him for paying it or them for doing it?

If I was in my early 20's I'd be over there myself guiding, the last thing on my mind would be scrimping together a deposit for a mortgage, I'd be getting pissed every night and trying to snake into as many chalet girls as was humanly possible. It's hardly something that is going to support a wife and kids back home so I dare say a majority of the folk out there are doing it because they want to not because they have to ?

So it's just me and the bloke from TA who think that the French are corrupt and Racist then ?

discoduck - Member
So it's just me and the bloke from TA who think that the French are corrupt and Racist then ?

Yep, pretty much !

Sweeping statements are exactly that, it's a bit like saying ALL murderers are Guilty ! Then realising some of them haven't been caught ?

Who gets to judge them or make sweeping statements ?

My sweeping statements are based purely on my own experience, others no doubt have theirs. I like to base my thought process on life itself and not what it says in the good book,

If your going to get hung for a sheep might as well get hung for lamb as well.

Trail addiction, a quick google by the french lawyers against you will bring up this thread.
Following your last few comments I bid you good luck in court.
Ps maybe you should talk to your legal team about damage limitation.

Hi Disco duck

I've lived in Chamonix (not France socially I'll accept, but geographically) for over 4 years, and have dotted about France for longer. I work with French people in a French business on the French system. I would like to become a MTB guide, but have been put off by the VTT qualifications and, like TA, consider the UK system to be more relevant for actual guiding (if not for running a guiding business) so am following this with considerable interest.
My wife is a solicitor who specialised in European competition law, so I feel all in all I have a fairly good insight into whether or not France as an entity is corrupt and/ or racist.

Grum, I wished I'd have known last week that your wife was a solicitor, that way I wouldn't have had to give my last €65 to the Corrupt copper who stopped me for speeding on my way back to Calais.

Of course, him being part of the French Legal System is NOT corrupt he is merely doing his Job, conducting his daily routine and earning a crust ! Who am I to cast aspertians. After all it was my fault I was breaking the speed limit.

As for becoming a trail guide, I wish you luck. I already have the relevant UK quals, I have no desire to live or work in France I did them through work. I do hope that TA's bravado stance comes off that way you will not have to do the VTT and you and many others will benefit from somene who has the minerals to stand up for what they believe in.

My wife is a surgeon, I tend to stay away from slicing open peoples stomachs though because unlike you I have no insight what so ever into my wife's chosen specialist proffesion.

As a French guy living in the UK I find the above comments very nasty and uncalled for. Yes I agree with TA that the french guides are trying to protect their interests but that is the same everywhere. Live with it or do something else.

I worked alongside French folk offshore and liked them. I have doubts about their level of self-interest, both corporate and national.

As to the Belgrano: I have some experience. Before the Falklands kicked off, that ship threatened to open fire on the drillship that I was working on. Which was under contract to YPF, the argie national oil co. First and only time I've seen four gun turrets pointed in my direction. I have a photo, somewhere. I smile when the name is mentioned.

So based on that slowoldgit do you reckon the whole of Argentina has it in for you?

Grum, I wished I'd have known last week that your wife was a solicitor, that way I wouldn't have had to give my last €65 to the Corrupt copper who stopped me for speeding on my way back to Calais.

The level of racism that has appeared down here is both uncalled for and poor form.

Cchris, did you actually think about wht you were tapping away at there ?

If it was the same everywhere how did you manage to slip under the net and end up living and working in the UK ?

Or was it a sweeping statement ?

Yes mike it was entirely my fault that the official asked me for €100 !
But ended up settling for the last of my notes, he refused my shackles though which assisted me in buying a crap cup of coffee at Mcd's

Or maybe I made the effort to learn the language and took several qualifications.

discoduck it might help if you started your posts with
"I'm not racist but..."

So it is the same everywhere then ? You don't have to learn the language ? Where does it say that, and I take it the Qualifications that you had from studying in France were not transferable in the Economic Union ?

I'm not Racist BUT I don't like it when I am exploited in a foreign Country !

There, is that better ? Can I leave the rose tinted goggles on or can I now take them off ?

I am not Racist BUT I feel like I should be able to travel freely inside the Economic Union and set up my stall to conduct a business with qualifications that should be recognised inside the EU without prejudice.

Which is basically what we are discussing here, we also have a freedom of speech and now I've become racist ?

discoduck - Member
I'm not Racist BUT I don't like it when I am exploited in a foreign Country !

Either we start playing nicely and keep on topic or the thread will be closed.

Ta.

OK, can we talk about economic migration inside the EU ?

when a corrupt and blatantly racist country wants to throw its weight around

What a great advert for your company. "Come holidaying in France, a nation of corrupt and blatant racists." 🙄

@discoduck - email deleted, say it in public.

Sorry Dave for getting OT but racist generalisations are not cool and need pointing out. Basic point still stands EU vs French law, not resolved, not as clear cut as either side wants, needs a trip to the EU courts as STW has no jurisdiction on the matter.

I don't know why the majority of guides just guise themselves up as photographers, water carriers and riding buddies. So long as I'm not going anywhere REALLY mountainous and whoever is showing me around knows where to get help/signal/coffee then isn't it up to me to decide if he or she is trustworthy enough to show me the quickest way around a resort.
I'd be very unlikely to hire a French guide so it's not like they're losing out.

Oh that's the Problem ? Racist generalisations are not COOL, and we can only discuss cool things ?
It's you that's touting Racial hatred, care to divulge the thought processes that eluded you think generally "what" in your opinion makes me a racist and why cchris can generalise that it's not just the French who are like it but infact EVERYONE is ?
How come he hasn't been adorned with your Racial ideology ?

Mike, I'm presuming you know the difference between a fine and corruption, by corrupt I mean I didn't get a receipt from the motorcycle cop, how un COOL was that ! Or am I being a Racist bigoted protectionist Brit ? As you suggest I am ?
Not Cool !

Maybe I had the wrong coloured lense in again and should bend over and take it like

Dave, yeah I'm sorry too, if I pucker up and Kiss it like mike does that make it OK ?

I'm going to suggest, in this instance that the French aren't being racist - they just don't like you guiding people whatever colour you happen to be. I think the correct term is nationalistic.

Hang on a minute, at NO point did I mention any ones skin colour !

I've been Kangeroo Courted by Mike, who thinks its OK to slander others whilst making off the cuff remarks about Racist Brits ? My good name is being tarnished here purely because I spoke out about the way I feel corruption is being executed at the other other side of a Tunnell.

Admittedly I was doing well over the limit at the time and whilst I was trying to explain to the officer I'd rather be tried by a jury than hung by 1, I could go on but that's it in a nutshell !

A Racist ! I wonder if they put it in my obituary ? At what point should I tell the wife and kid ?

Will it effect my position at work, what will the neighbours say ?

It's pretty tragic, how an elite cyclist and Forum "Hard Man" can crumble some ones world ?

Any way, Mike
Please divulge your process of thought which prompted you to believe that I am a racist ?

Discoduck, you need to step away for a few hours. Dave has already said that this thread will be allowed to continue if it remains on topic. The topic in question is NOT whether or not individual posters are racist or not. The topic is guiding in the French Alps and the issues surrounding that.

If you can't get it back on track then we will close the thread, which we really don't want to have to do as the issue here is a current and relevant one and we would prefer it gets discussed.

That's fine, as long as people elsewhere understand that as well and can do so without throwing little quips in and then apologising afterwards.

That is why I asked if we could discuss Economic Migration inside the EU ?
Which is basically the meat and bones of what we are looking at here.

Is it not.

This is the whole point, when a corrupt and blatantly racist country wants to throw its weight around, its quite easy for it to ignore its own laws

So why are you living, working, and (I assume) paying tax in such a country then? You have the right and freedom to live in a number of other countries, which possibly aren't quite so 'racist'.

This is all very tiresome. Freeride addict; you've single-handedly put me off ever booking a 'guided' mtb holiday with your cmpany, and any other Brit-run outfit which operates on a similar basis to yours, so well done. I'm sure that won't bother you, but I think you need to recognise the irony n your insular and sngle-minded stance ganst a system/nation you accuse of the same.

I'm pretty certain that if a French company, with French staff came to set up something similar in the UK, they would encounter some resistance by the locals. Actually that is one of UKIP slogans?

Some one threw their toys out because the nasty French insisted they gain the same profesional qualifications as French people doing the same job,basically. There is a reasonable argumant beneath it al, but sadly obscured by petty insularity and stubborness, inmy opionon.

To be honest, not really worth wasting time over. Wish I'd not got involved really. 🙁

Stoffel + 1, certainly on being put off 'guided' bike holiday companies acting in this manner.

"Racist" - fair enough, I stand corrected. Nationalistic is probably more appropriate in this particular case. (Although have you forgotten that France has banned wearing the Islamic Hijab in public?!).

Either way, it was [i]intended[/i] to be a derogatory comment.....Although I would also like to point out that these comments were aimed at a very specific minority of French nationals who unfortunately are certain individuals that work in government, and therefore act on behalf of all of the remaining open, welcoming and not outwardly corrupt nor racist French people I interact with on a daily basis.

"Corrupt" though, I do stand by that comment with respect to the administration concerned. Remember what I'm claiming is that the French are deliberately manipulating and mis-applying their own laws in an unjust fashion, in order to try to attempt to impose illegal restrictions on a foreign national from working in their country.....as follows:
a) my right to work with UK qualifications in France
b) not offering any form of test for me to demonstrate my competence if indeed (a) were in any doubt
c) ignoring my 13 years of professional experience

This is all very tiresome. Freeride addict; you've single-handedly put me off ever booking a 'guided' mtb holiday with your cmpany ....... I'm sure that won't bother you,

That's a shame on many levels, of course Im bothered, but ultimately I accept that this is the sort of argument that will polarise views. It was a very difficult decision to go public about the issues we are facing in France and one that I believe the French Administration were banking on me not being prepared to make.

Don't worry too much. I admire someone who stands up for their rights and doesn't just accept bein bullied around by government bureaucrats. I'd certainly use TA, in fact I probably will.

wrecker - Member
Don't worry too much. I admire someone who stands up for their rights and doesn't just accept being bullied around by government bureaucrats. I'd certainly use TA, in fact I probably will.

Spot on, infact ill see u guys in a couple of weeks. Like you say there will always be people who agree with you and those that don't. At least no matter how this pans out you can look yourself in the mirror and know you did what you thought was right. Good luck.

I'd definately use TA !
I'd just hope that their Guides have as much spunk as he has.
Standing up for something that you believe in is a rare commodity these days, it's far easier to sit at a computer desk and give it big licks and belittle people with a holier than thou attitude.

I dare say when the dust settles and with a positive result there will prob be a post crop up on here about how this descsion has helped out with UK nationals working in the high Alps.

Good luck

Although have you forgotten that France has banned wearing the Islamic Hijab in public?!

No, what they did, was ban clothing intended to conceal the face, in public places. So, you can't walk around wearing a balaclava, ski-mask, Mexican wrestlers' hood or any other face-concealing clothing. The Hijab is not 'face cncealing clothing'. hAnd you know how you were going on about European laws?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28106900

not offering any form of test for me to demonstrate my competence if indeed (a) were in any doubt

There is a test. Yu're just refusng to take it.

Good luck FA

freeride_addict: would you say Trail Addiction is a "nationalistic" company (or could be seen as such) for employing Brits guides only?
If I had an MTB guiding company here in UK certainly I would not employ Spanish guides [u]only [/u], sure I'd like to have some locals as long as they are competent.

If your company catered mostly to spanish people, you might.

(though is it true that TA only employ british guides? ie is it a matter of policy)

As an ex-guide working outside of Britain but mainly guiding Brits, I think the real reason that companies employ such people, is that the locals aren't stupid enough to work for the wages that these companies pay.

stoffel are you on some kind of crusade against TA? Really struggling to see where all your animosity comes from.