[Closed] For those who care about helmets

You had me until

Dr Philip Martin, Research Associate at Cardiff University, said:

"It is scary how similar traditional bicycle safety helmets on the market actually are. If you went into a helmet shop with an unlimited sum of money, you would come out with essentially the same thing, in regards to safety, as there is no superior product. The only real differences are in shape, colour and design - merely aesthetics. Everything is made out of polystyrene, which fails to offer adequate protection during ’oblique' impacts.

"The use of advanced supercomputing technology has helped us speed up our research to produce results much faster than any system I have worked with before. Currently, without these supercomputing capabilities....bluh bluh bluh bluh balh bluh bluh

So according to Dr Phil this

[img] [/img]

offers no more protection than this ?

[img] ?w=1100&h=1100&a=7[/img]

Everything is made out of polystyrene, which fails to offer adequate protection during ’oblique' impacts.

I presume the "helmet shop" he went into was Aldi or Halfords then.

@ jimjam.

you are missing the context, whihch is:

The researchers are examining the requirement to develop regulatory guidelines for evaluating bicycle helmet impact performance during impacts where ‘rotational’ impacts also occur –[b] which is where the brain rotates inside the skull following the impact of the collision.[/b]

Research associate...hasn't even found MIPS?

😳

seosamh77 - Member

@ jimjam.

you are missing the context, whihch is:

No, I understood the context. But he immediately undermines his credibility by saying something like

"it is scary how similar traditional bicycle safety helmets on the market actually are. If you went into a helmet shop with an unlimited sum of money, you would come out with essentially the same thing, in regards to safety, as there is no superior product"

The only real differences are in shape, colour and design - merely aesthetics.

Everything is made out of polystyrene, which fails to offer adequate protection during ’oblique' impacts.

So unless all impacts are oblique impacts, he's talking shit. And as cynic-al points out mips already exists and claims to dissipate oblique impacts.

So

[img] ?w=500&h=281[/img]

What is the difference in materials used? I always thought they basically were the same, polystyrene and plastic?

So unless all impacts are oblique impacts, he's talking shit. And as cynic-al points out mips already exists and claims to dissipate oblique impacts.

How can he be talking shit, if the only thing he is concerned about is improving the protection against oblique impacts? That's kinda what he is researching.. 😆

Do you feel the protection from helmets is at it's peak, and no longer requires research?

Research associate...hasn't even found MIPS?

That's the first thing I thought too. You would have hoped that they are aware of MIPS, but the article kind of implies they haven't really looked at what the industry is already doing at the cutting edge. Maybe they have but the article is just written by a lazy journalist. Research funding has to be a good thing anyway.

seosamh77

How can he be talking shit, if the only thing he is concerned about is improving oblique impacts? That's kinda what he is researching..

No, he dismisses shape and design as "merely aesthetics". The Fox Rampage "Carbon" which I posted is not merely aesthetically different from a road helmet. So that's wrong. He outright dismisses existing helmets as scary and useless.

in regards to [b]safety[/b], as [b]there is no superior product[/b]"

All helmets are equally useless according to him because they don't dissipate oblique impacts (which some actually claim to). But a helmet which dissipates oblique impacts is instantly superior. So by that logic unless all impacts are oblique impacts.........

The Smith Forefront uses aerocore instead of foam, so that's wrong. Mips is available in four different helmets and at least claims to do what he says helmets cannot.

From what I can see, it is an article about research funding just being granted rather than super detailed and thorough research outcomes at this stage. But, yes some of the comments are not so accurate, but I think moshi's comment above probably explains a fair bit of why this is how it is

JimJam, I take it you spent quite a bit of money on a shiny helmet then? 😆

Notice how you keep say "claims" about MIPs, doesn't sound particularly convincing..

What is the difference in materials used? I always thought they basically were the same, polystyrene and plastic?

Have a read of this for a quick overview:-

http://www.helmets.org/helmet14.htm

There's a bit more to an effective helmet than a lump of polystyrene in a plastic shell. I think the quotes in the linked article actually undermine the credibility of the research team - but possibly mis-quoted in the wrong context as news articles often are.

this thread is useless without..........

a rotational impact specialist, with strong opinions and an unshakeable belief in his own righteousness

if only we had

[img] [/img]

He's never done this

[img] ?oh=f0ec2acf954087760e5638a14fdc6f3b&oe=54D94494&__gda__=1424757535_f419fed5b5a3b4f3d7eee95d09bd4c81[/img]

On Rushup edge a few months ago

seosamh77 - Member

JimJam, I take it you spent quite a bit of money on a shiny helmet then?

No, I've got an IXS Trail Rs which replaced two Fox Flux (is it flux, flux's or fluxes).

Anyway, Both Fox helemets suffered massive over the bars scorpion style crashes into large rocks at high speed. Stopping dead. In both instances, either just before, or just after I thought this is it. I am dead. I got up both times, having not being knocked out, with little more than concussion and helmet split. And a bit of a sore head. One of them was so violent I am pretty sure I would have been killed outright without a helmet.

So I have enormous faith in the traditional inadequate foam helmets he finds so useless. The IXS actually had a pretty nasty oblique impact on it the last time I was out too, but I didn't really take much notice since I separated my shoulder at the same time.

So, 😆 back to you.

seosamh77
Notice how you keep say "claims" about MIPs, doesn't sound particularly convincing..

Well I havent had a massive crash in one, so until I do, it'll just be a claim to me. I generally don't spout crap about a product unless I've used it. Unlike Dr. Phil it seems.

Mips is available in four different helmets

A lot more than 4 now, more than 30 bike specific helmets actually. I was surprised how many there are last time I checked the MIPS website. Most of the big brands offer a MIPS helmet now in their range. Not just the high end stuff from the likes of POC and Sweet Protection.

So, back to you.

someone should mention mips to them, they've linked their story here

My mate lost a finger when he closed a car door on his hand, since then I always wear cricket gloves when travelling by car.

I think someone should design something specific for the job, batting gloves may not be effective in all circumastances.

I'm with Cynic-Al et all on this, distinct lack of actually looking at whats available!

Also (For example) POC also use polypropelene reinforced with aramid(kevlar) on certain models.

PP is known to better stand up to repeat impacts than PS does.

jimjam
Anyway, Both Fox helemets suffered massive over the bars scorpion style crashes into large rocks at high speed. Stopping dead. In both instances, either just before, or just after I thought this is it. I am dead. I got up both times, having not being knocked out, with little more than concussion and helmet split. And a bit of a sore head. One of them was so violent I am pretty sure I would have been killed outright without a helmet.

Is this after falling off while doing a track stand?

In both instances, either just before, or just after I thought this is it. I am dead. I got up both times, having not being knocked out, with little more than concussion and helmet split. And a bit of a sore head.

We can't judge, as we didn't have the crash. But it sounds as though it's at least [i]possible[/i] that you jump a little too readily to the conclusion that you're going to die. 😉

Anyway. While they may not have looked at everything else on the market, the use of a lot of computing power and 3D printing to try to produce something radically better than most standard helments is at least interesting.

While they may not have looked at everything else on the market

Be really stupid not to start off with a thorough market research on the product that they are trying to improve. The article doesn't give much confidence that they have. Some people have been doing helmets for a long long time and take it pretty seriously with decent resources. A computer and a 3D printer does not make you an overnight industry expert. Still an interesting project though and hopefully something useful will come of it.