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I like the pedalling efficiency of SPD's if it's something XC oriented and I think that's partly the stiff sole on the race style shoes I use on them. I prefer "caged" SPDs or flats for trail centres and playing around.
My flat technique isn't that good though, I've been bounced off the hardtail a couple of times but trying to get better.
Flats have one other advantage, you can jump on your bike and pedal along the waterfront path for a pint at the nearby marina/ take nipper to the playpark (not necessarily on the same trip) without wearing disco slippers.
Oh dear me
'there is a reason why every pro roadie rides clips'
let me just check, nope never mentioned I was a pro, astoundingly also never indicated that I raced, had any intentions of racing or that I was unhappy with the level of performance I get.
Just double checked and nope, nobody else rides my bikes.
Just triple checked and sorry, I just can't seem to find any reason why my choice of pedals should matter to anyone else. Or why anyone else would choose to make wildly innacurate statements of 'fact' as to what can or cannot be ridden with a certain type of pedal.
Actually it's quite often the case that top level equipment requires top level input to glean the maximum returns. As we move down the input chain the returns often diminish. Most of my kit is beyond any level I'll ever attain or desire to attain. I found the performance gains from using SPDs on the road to be outweighed by the inconvenience. I am however quite happy to acknowledge that you tower above me on the input chain and so your returns make flats unthinkable. I didn't even have to use much imagination to figure that out, you should try it sometime.
"both have their place."
i agree with this person.
I agree with this person that agrees with that person. 🙂
And as mentioned before it is sad in a funny way or funny in a sad way that some people seriously consider one or the other wrong or right. If they are serious about it.
But what I get out of this thread - apart from some amusement - is that there may be a few more reasons for flats than I thought. And that's a good thing. I mean, broaden your horizon, consider things you didn't before etc.
...Now, tell me, how do you bunny hop on flats again? Pedals 45° tilted forward, feet pressed into the pedal?! How do you keep the pressure up/the feet connected to the pedal when in the air?
Another stupid thread ! Ok you like to ride with flats fair enough, but especially on a road bike don't try and say their better ! They aren't, personal prefference doesn't alter the laws of physics.
...Now, tell me, how do you bunny hop on flats again? Pedals 45° tilted forward, feet pressed into the pedal?! How do you keep the pressure up/the feet connected to the pedal when in the air?
Practise scooping the back wheel of the floor without lifting the front.
...Now, tell me, how do you bunny hop on flats again? Pedals 45° tilted forward, feet pressed into the pedal?! How do you keep the pressure up/the feet connected to the pedal when in the air?
The trick is to tie of couple of particularly long pubic hairs around the top tube.
taxi25, you need to point to where someone said flats were better for the road...or did you just make that up to have a rant against?
I said the benefits were not enough for me versus the downsides, which is a rather different statement. But feel free to rant away at the invisible posters upsetting you.
macb, i wasn't having a go, as i said "if you like running flats on your road bike,GREAT." none of us are sam hill or lance armstrong, it's just riding a bike, it's supposed to be fun. jesus.....
These threads are are what make STW special 😐 🙄
@uselesshippy - think nothing of it, it's only the net, some of the people on this thread might even own bikes as well.
I just get a chuckle out of the flat out, excuse the pun, declarations of right and wrong, possible and impossible, etc. I also struggle to resist indulging in pedantry when the 'but the pros do this' reasoning is trotted out....which is my problem not yours
I already have enough sport specific shoes!running shoes
approach shoes
Hiking boots
Mountaineering boots
Diving boots
spd shoes
winter spd shoes
There's room for a bit of consolidation in there - personally I use running shoes for what you probably do with approach shoes and hiking boots (I've even worn them in situations where most people would use mountaineering boots!) Mind you, I do now own 3 different pairs of shoes suitable for riding flats since I've been riding a uni (which then resulted in me putting a pair of flat pedals on my hack MTB), and my list goes like this:
bike shoes:
SPD
winter SPD
roadie
flats
running shoes:
road
trail
fell/XC
orienteering
XC skiing:
classic
skate
rollerski
touring
windsurf/kayak:
summer shoes
winter booties
aracer now known as Imelda
I think we're all missing the point here, it's not flat pedals that are wrong- it's road bikes.
+1
Practise scooping the back wheel of the floor without lifting the front.
Don't scoop. Launch the bike into the air by pushing it into the ground and your feet will stay on the pedals - it pushes you, you don't pull it.
I switched to riding SPD from cheap flats.
Cost wise, little more expensive for SPD shoes and pedals, but then the "top" flat pedals aren't cheap at all.
I found that in wet weather I was slipping on the pedals, a stiffer/gripper shoe (I was using Globe Skate Shoes) may have helped, or some better pedals or both. I switched to SPD to improve pedalling efficiency, made a massive difference to my riding and fitness.
I feel that I have to wimp out a bit on some tougher sections where I feel I might fall. I struggled a bit at Gisburn in the wet on the Northshore and some very muddy sections where it was slow going and I wanted to dab out now and again.
As for OMG I HAVE TO PUT SPECIAL SHOES ON, well I would wear special shorts, gloves, helmet anyway, so some shoes isn't much else, and besides, I wouldn't want my normal shoes getting all cacked up. Just wash down my SPD shoes after a ride with a sponge and they come up great every time.
I think it depends on the trails. I rarely see serious-looking riders in the peak riding flats, whereas replies on here would seem to suggest that flats were the norm.
I dunno. I ride flats for DH because it's fun to get rowdy with flat pedals. But on the usual peaks trails I got really annoyed the last time I tried flats. Inefficient, kept hitting them on rocks and was never quite happy with my foot positioning.
tarquin - Member
...As for OMG I HAVE TO PUT SPECIAL SHOES ON, well I would wear special shorts, gloves, helmet anyway, so some shoes isn't much else...
Some of us don't like to have to dress like a bike warrior specially for the bike. My bike sits at the back door and I can just jump on it and ride wearing my normal clothes for a day outside. I dress for the mountain not the bike, and I don't want to be limited where I can take my bike by my footwear.
Some examples of a day out...
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No track at all.
to be fair epicycle, if that is truly representative of where your riding i wouldn't bother with the bike. I see no fun riding across bogs, rocks, rough grass land. Bikes IMO suit places where trails exist, be it sheep, badgers, deer etc. or man made ones.
Some great responses - a few that have intrigued me most, say things like i've been riding for 15, 20, 25 years but i'm not that skilled at this that or the other.....jeez after 20years you should be nailing it!!!
I rode BMX for 10 years before injury forced me to ride Mtb. The flats to spd conversion was 'interesting' but now having been on mtb and road for over 10 years, i dont think i could ride flats that well. My riding is just not that gnar anymore either but even when pushing hard at inners 6/7 years ago over jumps and drops it was always with spd on, no problems....main thing was having confidence and being able to handle the bike.
jeez after 20years you should be nailing it!!!
Why?
I have been riding 20years and the reason i started and still ride is to escape, i know what i can do, and can probably do more than my head will let me, but i know i have limits technically, it doesn't bother me.
As for flats, for me i see no point, SPDs work, i know when i climb my feet are where i want them, i know the bike will do what i tell it to do, after a few hours i don't have to think about pedal position/about weighting/unweighting/bunny hops etc. just pull and the bike comes.
I dress for the mountain not the bike, and I don't want to be limited where I can take my bike by my footwear.
Yeah, but you have a "special" bike. In any case, are you telling me that you wear normal street shoes to ride there? Personally I found I didn't have any shoes which worked well on flat pedals when I got my uni, and had to buy some more special ones. That's not to mention that the SPD shoes I own are fine for hiking through stuff like that - in fact I suspect I've hiked further with a bike wearing SPD shoes than most on here who claim they need flats because they like going for hikes with their bike.
mrmo - Member
to be fair epicycle, if that is truly representative of where your riding i wouldn't bother with the bike...
Probably is - in that it's my favoured terrain. Mountains are like magnets to me, doesn't matter what I'm riding, if I see an interesting track I'll poke a wheel along it regardless of what I'm riding.
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I think druidh was the one who expressed it nicely "putting the mountain into the mountain bike" (or was it munrobiker?)
If am out for more than an hour or so, I'll almost always hit a bit where it's like that. Why let my footwear limit me to tracks when a cut across the mountain will take me somewhere interesting and save me from simply doubling back over stuff I have just ridden?
Anyway how else would I get there? Can't afford a helicopter - but fat tyres do make offroad much easier. 🙂
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riding for 15, 20, 25 years but i'm not that skilled at this that or the other.....jeez after 20years you should be nailing it!!!
I've been rock climbing on and off for about 10 years. I'm still not amazing. I can live with myself.
Why let my footwear limit me to tracks when a cut across the mountain will take me somewhere interesting and save me from simply doubling back over stuff I have just ridden?
Indeed - which is why I wear grippy SPD shoes rather than the flat pedal specific ones which have far less grip when walking.
aracer - Member
...which is why I wear grippy SPD shoes rather than the flat pedal specific ones which have far less grip when walking.
I wear ordinary outdoor type shoes so there's plenty grip.
i know when i climb my feet are where i want them, i know the bike will do what i tell it to do, after a few hours i don't have to think about pedal position/about weighting/unweighting/bunny hops etc.
This makes no sense! Do you honestly believe that those who use flat pedals have to actually think about this stuff? Or do you have to remember to breathe as well?
Because they are more fun. You rarely see riders who like to jump, manual, drift and generally muck about on their bikes riding spd's. The exception to this are riders who are masters at bike handling as they can ride just about anything clipped in.
I dissagree, I was out in the snow last week on my DH bike merrily drifting and jumping clipped in - same as the other 2 fellas I was riding with...
I'm certainly no Master of bike handling but I'm pretty used to SPDs now and in a wierd way being clipped in really helps me, staying clipped in when your tires start to edge out sort of forces you to ride slides out, it needs a bit more commitment, dabbing/tripoding through a turn often costs you time and speed...
I rode flats exclusively for ~15 years and was pretty happy on them, I finally tried out SPDs on a Whim a couple of years ago and actually get along very well with them...
Having said that I still think it comes down to what sort of SPD your using (much like the choice of flat pedal and shoes), for me its M520s on Road and SS bikes, M424s on the XC HT and some "Retro" M636s (Red, late 90s DX pedals) on the DH bike, I think if I'd only ever tried cageless SPDs and super stiff soled XC shoes then I'd still be happily using flats for DH...
I still have some nice flats and a pair of Duffs 4130s which I might use if I build another Dirt jumpy HT or pop on my BMX but for now I'm mostly an SPDist...
Simply ride what your comfortable using don't worry about fashions or other peoples attitudes, it's only a pair of pedals/shoes, if anyone really takes issue with your choice of shoes, are they really the sort of person you want to spend time with anyway?
I don't find my carbon fibre soled disco slippers prevent me getting into the back of beyond or down the gnar.
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I ride BMX on flats and I'm happy to DH or MTB on either. A few years ago I spent 6 months on flatties as an experiment, but I was happy to come back to SPD's for the extra efficiency and control. Plus... even my disco-slippers grip better when walking in the mud and on rocks than fashion skate shoes 🙄
I'm half tempted to repeat the experiment with some 5:10's... but I'm loath to buy new shoes and pedals as I'm not not sure the outcome would be any different to last time. My mate who broke his ankle last year and is on flatties now is looking forward to getting his SPD's back, and he is a very good Mega/DH-Enduro type rider. I do see the flatties thing as a bit of an MTB fashion thing at the moment - but so what? The only things that do make me laugh are when people people fall over when trying SPD's for the first time... or when skate shoe wearers complain of cold wet feet while us winter booted SPD riders have warm toasty toes... ooooh it makes my sides ache to think about these things 😆
Some of us don't like to have to dress like a bike warrior specially for the bike. My bike sits at the back door and I can just jump on it and ride wearing my normal clothes for a day outside. I dress for the mountain not the bike, and I don't want to be limited where I can take my bike by my footwear.
For those of us who don't live in the back of beyond, going for a ride means a change of clothes.
Would look a little silly in a suit on a mountain bike, plus it would end up caked in mud or road grim.
Plus... even my disco-slippers grip better when walking in the mud and on rocks than fashion skate shoes
This is very true, i ride flats and had some skate shoes, which are fine if its bone dry, but have absolutely no grip whatsoever if it's even slightly muddy.
Of course everyone rides up and down everything so this is a pointless er point 😆
messiah - Member
I don't find my carbon fibre soled disco slippers prevent me getting into the back of beyond or down the gnar.
How did you get up there?
(I'd better stop posting in this thread, I'm boring myself 🙂 )
epicyclo, as usual, you are the one speaking most sense on this thread.
infact, on most thread you contribute to, you usualy speak more sense than most. 😀
flats are generally more economical to run.. especially top floor flats with very good loft insulation..
some people like that they are often all on one level..
rents can be cheaper..
there's more availability..
the list goes on and on..
SPDs do prevent you escaping in SOME situations, I find (even if people say it's no different). the problems I found were thus:
SPDs:
Generally more secure but then I'd rely on that and pop out of them when least expecting it, totally trashing my confidence.
Stop me easily getting off the pedal when descending REALLY steep stuff - the sort of stuff where you're hanging so far off the back your legs are straight and twisting your ankle to release the spud pushes your C of G far enough forward to make you feel you're going to go over the front.
Flats:
Generally less secure but who cars, I can dismount and jog next to the bike without much effort.
Pain for climbing, I REALLY miss the spinning/upward pull bit of my stroke.
Helping my back issue because I'm doing less work with the rear of my leg and it seems to be preventing the ever-shortening of my hamstrings that seemed to be happening with using the up-stroke of SPDs