[Closed] Female riders - would you enter an event that categorised you as a 'whore'?

[i]Of course she would have! [/i]

So why choose what they did, knowing that some women would choose not to enter? Just ends up seeming unnecessarily divisive, 'edgy' for the sake of it.

the issue was did the name deter folk from entering who otherwise would have entered

Its obvious, even to you dez, that it did not deter those who did enter.

Its seems pretty obvious it would deter some women - like say having a category for rapists would deter some men from entering an event
its a no brainer of a question.

So why choose what they did, knowing that some women would choose not to enter?

I'm confused by this. I live in the valley, and ride with a lot of the local female riders and no one sited the category names as a reason not to enter.

Trouble is though - this isn't the sort of debate where anyone* is prepared to change their views based on what anyone else says. Which makes it a pointless merry-go-round of bollocks.

This is true of most threads that go beyond a few pages though. But the usual suspects seem to have fun on the merry-go-round so no harm done. But this thread really !!!
This post should have ended the thread 😀

I entered the event and it's one of the best days I've had on my bike. I couldn't give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day.

Its seems pretty obvious it would deter some women - like say having a category for rapists would deter some men from entering an event

Maybe that was the idea - it sold out, so less disappointed people (wimminz).

I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced). Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, cos I know I'm not one. And anyway it would be "Enduro Rapists" and you can't rape an enduro. Said he, joining in with the merry-go-round of bollocks.

Its seems pretty obvious it would deter some women -

This is true but people are all different especially relating to their take on humour. If you try to not offended "anyone" make everything inclusive at every level things become dull,dull,dull 🙁 The category names reflect the organiser's sense of humour and a hope the event will be conducted in that spirit. If you don't buy into that fair enough,just tick it as another thing to ignore. I do that all the time.

Hard to believe you lot have gotten yourself so worked up about this.

I entered the event and it's one of the best days I've had on my bike. I couldn't give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day. In fact it was all quite funny. I've also entered TweedLove enduros in the past and they were nowhere near the fun that this was. I doubt I'll enter another tweedlove Enduro because of the experience of racing it as a woman and their lack of considering how to get more women into it or make it a better experience.

Air maiden does so much to help get women riding stuff they normally wouldn't ride and really enjoying every minute on the bike. Lynne really gets what women are about and how they work differently from men. I think she's got a degree in psychology, so approaches things a bit differently from your normal coach.

It's definitely not aimed at the mumsnet crowd and anyone who knew Lynne would think it's hilarious to even mention the two in the same category.

The event is very much aimed at getting women racing who wouldn't normally whilst also providing a race for more experienced people to enjoy as a majority rather than the extreme minority that you get at normal enduro races. Hence, the wide range that the categories provide.

Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

I do find it odd that a commercial event has used this terminology, my thoughts that I posted earlier in this thread was that it was rather juvenile. Common sense dictates that one doesn't want to put off paying punters, how can you seriously expect paying punters to know that the organisor has their own individual sense of humour?

I don't race but even if I did that terminology would deter me from entering. It's not clever and it isn't funny, imo obviously.

Maybe that was the idea - it sold out, so less disappointed people (wimminz).

I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced).

If you try to not offended "anyone" make everything inclusive at every level things become dull,dull,dull

It might be just me but if i wanted to encourage women to participate in something i would use an approach other than calling them whores and using overtly sexualised categories, unless i was organising a swingers night or an orgy.

Who knew it was as simple as call them whores to get them to engage.. i should try this more often

I do get that 'whore' isn't meant in the usual sense here, it just means someone who can't get enough of racing enduros. Still lame, mind.

Since you need it explained again.

rickon - Member

I refer you back to Northwind's comment. 70 women sold-out Airmaiden.

And something else I should have mentioned- the proportion of novice racers or first-time enduro racers was off the scale. These days the mainstream events seem to have gone a bit DH, it's a lot of the same faces, and the "entry level" events are mostly piss-easy. Come and ride a red route, yay! I don't think many if any real enduros get such a high proportion of first timers. It was ace- reminded me of being at enduro ground zero at innerleithen back in the day. One of the things people miss out on now is that original "we have no idea what we're doing" feeling- if you turn up for a race now, everyone understands the format and knows what they're doing so doing your own learning curve must feel harder than when we were all going wtf together.

I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced). Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, cos I know I'm not one.

But are you [i]really[/i] unable to understand that people other than yourself, men and women included, would object to events trivialising and normalising rape as part of a wider culture in which we all exist, and why such objections might be valid?

I refer you back to Northwind's comment. 70 women sold-out Airmaiden.

12 out of 278 were women in the last Scottish Enduro Series round.

I'd say they've got the marketing spot on from those stats.

It'd have probably sold out anyway, given that it was marketed as a women-only event. The category names aren't part of the marketing, they're secondary to the the fact it's women-only and you'd only discover them if you looked at the event website after having decided to look at the website after the marketing had hauled you in. The thought process might go-

1. Oh, a women-only enduro, that sounds like it might be good fun. I think I'll enter*.
2. Oh, I see what they've done with the age/experience category names there- very (funny/droll/wacky/dull/must try harder)**

* Not me personally, it's too far away
** delete as applicable.

It's the 'women-only' and the fact that will have spread across various FB groups that's the marketing here, not the category names.

Again, meh, no froth/rage/whatever here. I'm not angry, just [i]disappointed[/i] 😆

[quote=DezB ]Maybe that was the idea - it sold out, so less disappointed people (wimminz).

Yeah, I suggested that earlier as a piss take. Presumably if they don't sell out next time they'll consider changing the category names?

[quote=Northwind ]And something else I should have mentioned- the proportion of novice racers or first-time enduro racers was off the scale.

I'm not sure of the relevance of that - I think everybody agrees the events must be great. Are people really suggesting that the category naming actually results in some people entering who wouldn't have otherwise?

Are people really suggesting that the category naming actually results in some people entering who wouldn't have otherwise?

That was my point in my last post, the category names aren't part of the marketing, it's the 'women-only' bit that did all the heavy lifting.

aracer - Member

I'm not sure of the relevance of that

The relevance is that it proves what a total success the event is despite people's enthusiastic fault finding.

But are you really unable to understand that people other than yourself, men and women included, would object to events trivialising and normalising rape as part of a wider culture in which we all exist, and why such objections might be valid?

Are you aware of how literally important the answer to a rhetorial question is?

^^That, and this, is what contributes to the merry-go-round:
"True so we should call women whores then to avoid this?"

Who actually did that? 😐

I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced).
I am not surprised to read that.

(Selective) Quoting out of context: Dick move.

I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced). Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, cos I know I'm not one. And anyway it would be "Enduro Rapists" and you can't rape an enduro. Said he, joining in with the merry-go-round of bollocks.

Bollocks you say? alright then, I'll have a spin - no linguistic reason why you can't: you can totally kill it, slay it, shred it, smash it... Rape it? No difference in terms of language use, it's just over the line in terms of acceptability. Hopefully not a temporary thing.

Bollocks? My turn - no linguistic reason why not: you can totally kill it, slay it, shred it, smash it... Rape it? No difference in terms of language use, it's just over the line in terms of acceptability. Hopefully not a temporary thing

Gosh, this is such fun.

Are you aware of how literally important the answer to a rhetorial question is?

Nice. Drop in an analogy of "well, casual use of 'rapist' doesn't bother me, so what's the big deal here?" and then have a sarcastic flounce about it when someone responds to it. Stay classy.

[quote=Northwind ]The relevance is that it proves what a total success the event is despite people's enthusiastic fault finding.

It's a strawman then, because absolutely nobody on this thread has suggested that the event wasn't a success.

Someone else used the anology of 'rapist' in a rhetorical question.
All I'm saying is: See how you get yourself worked up over nothing?

Literally no-one "trivialised rape" (or maybe Junkyard did (twice, by the look of it, inferring that I'm a rapist?))

Amazed this is 7 pages and still going. Yes this isnt clear cut whos right or whos wrong, but actually, the event runs, it sells out, it has positives. Yes its not everyones cup of tea so people get sore butts.

I think the naming was a good piece idea, it would have put off the females with the wrong attitude which would have been detrimental to this event and what the organiser wanted.

julzm - Member
Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

POSTED 11 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Yer butt.. are you new here?

It's a bit sad when an event has to use derogatory names for categories which clearly mock Women.
Belittling the feminist revolution over the last 50 years is a bit sad, clearly only appeals to those Women who are bullish enough to shrug it off.
Plenty of Women a bit pissed off by it though.

I mentioned Mumsnet purely to get some balance, on here we are clearly a bunch of hair arsed blokes with a core small group of female posters who actually ride bikes.

Think you'll find the attitude over there might be somewhat more vocal..

Everyone on this thread needs to be killed now, including me.

Alternatively if you're really upset, contact the organisers to complain - or ask your favourite MTB media outlet to report on it.

I'm just gonna file it in the same box as those misguided Cove bike names and get on with my life.

[i]It's a bit sad when an event has to use derogatory names for categories [/i]

This must take us back to page 1.

Literally no-one "trivialised rape"

Let's not get hung up on the pedantry: as far as I can tell you were arguing that the whore/etc labelling is fine on the basis that you personally would be fine with a hypothetical event which hypothetically trivialised rape. And as a logical argument, that only holds up in a wider context if you either can't understand or don't agree with trivialising rape.

Anyhoo… This is becoming an XKCD cartoon.

I think the naming was a good piece idea, it would have put off the females with the wrong attitude which would have been detrimental to this event and what the organiser wanted.

Define 'wrong attitude' please.

Anyhoo… This is becoming an XKCD cartoon.

which one?

But going back to page 1 would be reeeeeedicularse.

We're 8 pages in and still frothing.

I suspect we'll all be here on page 12..

Everyone on this thread needs to be killed now, including me.

Agreed. We've come to comparisons with rape, racism and public executions.

Probably time to calm down.

Everyone on this thread needs to be killed now, including me.

I've just shot myself in the face.
Some people really try sooooo ****ing hard to sound intelligent don't they?

(Selective) Quoting out of context: Dick move.

Who knew it was as simple as call them whores to get them to engage.. i should try this more often

I do get that 'whore' isn't meant in the usual sense here, it just means someone who can't get enough of racing enduros. Still lame, mind.
Since you need it explained again.

that would be me and the dictionary then and you giving an [credible] explanation of why the other categories[context] are also sexualised words.

its pretty clear they have used sexualised words I dont see the point in trying to pretend

babies virgin whore cougar are not words used to explain how much anyone rides [ a bike].

Literally no-one "trivialised rape" (or maybe Junkyard did (twice, by the look of it, inferring that I'm a rapist?))

essentially do you think some folk might be out off signing up to race as a rapist? I would go for yes some people would as I would with the terms they used.
I dont think its a very controversial view but this is STW so it will rumble on.

which one?

https://www.xkcd.com/386/

I hereby attempt to walk away and not return 🙂

aracer - Member

It's a strawman then, because absolutely nobody on this thread has suggested that the event wasn't a success.

Nah, it's not a strawman- it's relevant because Air Maiden put on great events and people who've got no involvement in them are finding fault and saying how they're doing it wrong, that they have the wrong values, that this event for 16 year olds isn't appropriate for 8 year olds...

Nah, it's not a strawman- it's relevant because Air Maiden put on great events and people who've got no involvement in them are finding fault and saying how they're doing it wrong, that they have the wrong values, that this event for 16 year olds isn't appropriate for 8 year olds...

No, we're saying they've made a mistake in the category naming. No more, no less. Come on, of all the people on here I expect you to have comprehension skills!

[quote> https://www.xkcd.com/386/

I hereby attempt to walk away and not return

Just spat water over my work computer, good pick sir, good pick.

No, we're saying they're made a mistake in the category naming. No more, no less. Come on, of all the people on here I expect you to have comprehension skills!

I guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.

Contrasting that to out of context anecdotal evidence on an internet forum.

Make of that what you will.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

No, we're saying they've made a mistake in the category naming. No more, no less. Come on, of all the people on here I expect you to have comprehension skills!

I think you need to read the thread tbf, everything i mentioned is right there.

As one of the "core small group of female posters who actually ride bikes", I suppose I ought to comment.

It's self-evident that the categories were a mistake, since we're discussing the names and not the event itself. Unless you believe that "all publicity is good publicity".

But the names are hilariously funny . . . if you're a 14yo boy. For a grown-up woman, not so much.

To respond "It's just a joke", "You have no sense of humour" and "Get over it" is immature. It's also the classic response of a man challenged for harassing a woman.

By all accounts the event was excellent, so well done the organiser (and all the helpers). There was a nice piece in [url= https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/apr/12/the-clan-female-rider ]The Guardian[/url] a few years ago, which includes some background on the "Chief Air Maiden".

They should have gone with

Jailbait
Pert
Leaking
Saggy

I guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.

Yes, because an event when you're there is MUCH bigger than the category names. But when you look to book a place on an event, or look up the results afterwards all you have is a list of names, categories, times, and positions.

Seeing that on Roots And Rain is uncomfortable viewing to a father of a four year old girl who is super competitive and loves riding her bike.

I also refer back to my first comment, which is that I suspect this humour is more acceptable in Scotland than England - I feel like it sounds funnier when I say it in a Scottish accent but in English it just sounds abusive.

No-one has yet suggested what Vets and Super Vets should be called either...

😆

Perch, sometimes you're hillaryarse.

rickon - Member

I guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.

Self selection though, by definition we never met anyone on the day who was put off entering by the names.

I was at both Enduro Maiden events, and I don't recall anybody being offended by the category names, they seemed to be taken with the humor with which they were intended.

I get more annoyed at the diminuitive "girls" being applied to adult women at bike race events.

If everybody who has taken the time to post about this on social media because they care so much about women's treatment in society donated a pound to the Womens Refuge then maybe some good will come of all this suffering !