Feeling safe on the roads -- the affect of social media

It's definitely less safe in certain areas, but SM does exaggerate it hugely too. The problem is that SM is antagonising both sides. Here in NL, where I spend 3/4 of a my time, we intermingle inches from each other most of the time, cars and bikes. Who crosses first at a junction is governed by a nod and a wave even if one has priority, and in a city it's very common to have bikes on all sides less than a foot away, with no clashes and no animosity. Come back to the UK and if you dare to drive within a couple of metres of a cyclist you get a mouthful of abuse or your car punched, and if you dare to cycle filter down to an ASL you get abuse and aggressive overtakes. In NL that rarely, if ever, happens. Cars just hang back and wait for a safe overtake (and that can be <1m away) and bikes know not to swerve about or ride out randomly.

There are two reports of accidents involving cyclists on my local newspaper's FB page today. Predictably both have attracted anti-cycling sentiment (bet the cyclist hadn't got lights, etc). I commented on one to say "that man is someone's son, maybe someone's dad, grandad, brother, friend. Your comments don't make you look clever, they make you look callous". I am awaiting some backlash. The media and social media has dehumanised cyclists completely and yes, it does make me worried on the roads. Not scared, but certainly aware that I am nothing to most drivers other than an inconvenience.

I agree - I have to stay away from any cycling threads on social media that are anything to do with incidents now. It is just a savage pile on and intimidating.
I focus on nice things to do with bikes now.

@coffeeking, yea, it's certainly not so much the closeness of a pass that botheres me but the intent

One of the ones I mentioned above was on a tiny back road that is so quiet that one of the locals occasionally lets their pig out to wander unaccompanied. One of those roads that's literally a car's width wide

I had a van floor it passed me accelerating hard, barely missing me by a couple of inches, and then just 50 yards ahead they slowed down and pulled into the verge to pass an old man out walking, as polite a pass as is possible on that road (fwiw they hadn't been waiting behind me to pass)

I drive a coach in and out of Edinburgh every day, there are plenty of people on bikes.
Slowing down (slightly) for a bike doesn’t bother me in the slightest, partly because I’m a cyclist myself, and partly because I’ve been doing this job for 20 years and i can recognise that slowing down to ensure another human’s safety has zero effect on my running time overall.
Put another way, I’m very rarely late at the end of my shift.
**** knows how to communicate this to other car drivers though.

There definitely does seem to have been a shift to a "them and us" - cyclists are now objects/targets to a few drivers. I am generally pretty considerate on the roads...narrow ones I'll pull into passing spaces to let cars go - that sort of thing.
However there does certainly seem to have been a post lockdown shift (remember lockdown, where people seemed to look out for one another?) - to completely the other end of the scale. Deliberate cut ups, swerves and general belligerence towards cyclists. And am sure that some of that is fueled by SM.

Thankfully most of my cycling is offroad. The road bike is still on the turbo - but even having to link trails with short sections of road... you take your life in your hands.

Edit - I am probably more jumpy since being ploughed into by a distracted mum at a T junction in 2016. That was a lack of concentration rather than malicious, but the prospect of being hit again really doesn't appeal.

So I’m wondering, does anyone else relate to this?

It's why I'm rarely on road.cc these days. Interested in all things drop bars, yes. Wanting to see a news section that's >50% road rage, RTAs and 'near miss of the day' content? Nope.
My local road riding is 98% of the time peaceful and pleasant and 1% 'driver could do better', 1% 'rider could do better' (either my reaction to the other 1% or my influence on the traffic around me). I don't dispute the experience many have and I think the UK has some real issues, I just don't want to mix all that stuff up in the otherwise positive and interesting aspects of cycling.

I ditched twitter after maybe 3 years and rarely ever used FB, I don't use it under my own name etc and when I do it's about 4 groups and that's it. Fk algorithm-driven media, it's just about monetising emotive content. Drives wedges between people and stresses them out.

The problem is that SM is antagonising both sides.

Exactly. Stick to the purely social aspects and all's ok.

my local newspaper’s FB page today.

You're a braver man than me, venturing there..

@mccraque, I guess I'm kind of glad that I'm not the only one that feels that way, but this is really sad if it is the case

On FB, I was quite shocked at the level of dehuminisation of cyclists -- not just the things the odd person says, but that really hideous comments were often the most liked

I guess it's possible the algorithms really are killing people

You’re a braver man than me, venturing there..

I would say dafter rather than braver James.

Social media probably just shows the extent of the hatred towards cyclists that was always there but not publicly visible on such a scale, but I have personally noticed more aggression in the real world as I've been cycling for 12 years and for the first time ever got a milkshake thrown off my from a car window while out on the weekend. Had plenty close passes over the years but nothing like that.

dafter rather than braver

I don't know about that..

Was thinking about this while outside for a while, in the quiet and sunshine. Algorithms are driving revenue for SM companies but if we didn't react/engage they'd find something else to get clicks, because they need the £. So algorithms reflect us?

Social media probably just shows the extent of the hatred towards cyclists that was always there but not publicly visible on such a scale,

I wonder if FB etc, anything that has very short form / comments content, just rattles people who react to vent other stresses in life. Life is stressful in general at the moment. People in groups say daft things for likes or to join in. It escalates and the algorithms encourage it. I wonder if SM makes the polarisation worse than individuals alone would express.

I’m sure social media leads to polarisation particularly though the bubble effect of finding people with the same views.

But most people will vent on social media in a way that they wouldn’t in the real world. That’s comments let alone harmful actions

There is a catch 22 here. Cycling in the roads isn’t a massive risk. The more cyclist on the road the safer we are. The social media hype harms us if it takes cyclists off the road

I don't think it's any less safe on the roads I cycle on than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago - though you wouldn't think that if you went by reports on this social media platform. I do notice some seasonal changes though. I certainly get more close passes when the tourists arrive, but then I experience the same uptick in poor driving when I'm in my car or van too, it's not specific to being a cyclist.

My local road riding is 98% of the time peaceful and pleasant and 1% ‘driver could do better’, 1% ‘rider could do better’

Totally agree Jameso. SM makes it seem so much worse

Average 5000 miles a year on road. (not commute mind)

Been riding 20 years.

There are more good drivers than bad nowadays. This makes the idiots stand out more.

There are also more cyclists than before, sometimes intentionally or unintentionally putting themselves in harms way.

I'm more than happy to ride on roads still. I ride assertively/defensively as required, and I'm damned if I'll let dickhead/careless motorists intimidate me off the roads.

Fwiw, in the last 20 years, maybe 60-70k miles including commuting, my worst injury was off road. The only injury I've had while riding on road was when pedestrian ran out into me.

My example is not proof, of course.

Slightly off topic, but still relevant, I'm interested in where folk stand regarding the reporting of bad driving.

Close passes in particular are pretty much a per-ride occurrence for me. I had a proper heart stopper a month or so back and it has been suggested that I should have reported it (I have it on video).

I've never reported any dodgy driving, partly because I'm a huge wuss who's concerned about comeback - as others have said it's not inconceivable that our paths will cross again and I'd be nervous about a confrontation. However, I also believe that we need look out for each other as a community of cyclist and dangerous driving certainly needs tackling.

Is reporting an incident more likely to shame/scare the miscreant into being more careful, or create an even more rapid anti-cycling mentality and increasing the likelihood of punishment passes and abuse to cyclists in the future? I guess positing up the footage on SM could have equally disparate outcomes.

SM makes it seem so much worse

And I have to say that there's a certain type of commuting/daily riding cyclist on Twitter especially who seem to have the sorts of interactions with other road users and drivers and street furniture every day that I would expect to have maybe once or twice a year. I've notice that the twitter algorithm - like FB did for the OP serves these up to me. They fall into broadly two categories, 1. This new/existing cycling infrastructure is not perfectly suited to my personal requirements and is therefore utterly useless and a total waste of money, or 2. here's me being close passed - again. It may be that they've built up followers and feel the need to serve them a constant stream of content, but I'm not sure it's helping or contributing to making anything "better"

@nickc, yea, I think I've come across twitter accounts like that. Some cyclists are def not helping the situation at all

My local road riding is 98% of the time peaceful and pleasant and 1% ‘driver could do better’, 1% ‘rider could do better’

Totally agree Jameso. SM makes it seem so much worse

Average 5000 miles a year on road. (not commute mind)

I agree with this as well and am consciously trying to note the number of pleasant interactions I have

The problem is that it only take one driver to more or less ruin your life -- that worry can certainly be taken too far, but I find it hard to ignore

It's funny, I ride to work every day in Leeds, helmetless, with a lot of drivers around, and I can't remember the last time I had a scary encounter. It's when I'm heading out of town for a proper ride that I seem to find trouble

If I was to elaborate on the other of the close passes I mentioned: it was on a tiny back road that's narrow even for a single-lane road, and a Tesla shot passed me without moving aside or slowing down at all, and I think the only reason it didn't plough through me is because I swerved left into the undergrowth. I think I've had the same from the same car before -- it's a back road no one but residents or cyclists has any reason to use. So that experience affected me because (1) those kind of roads are normally a place you can totally relax, (2) it was malicious driving, not carelessness, and (3) I may meet the person again and there'll be no witnesses it they do run me down

If I am riding on the road and someone hangs back then gives me a nice wide overtake when the coast is clear I always give them a little nod or wave to say thank you. It helps me remember that there are decent folk out there and it moves the focus away from the pillocks I've encountered.

I always give cars with cameras a wide birth, and to some extent cyclists too.

Its almost as though they are expecting trouble and therefore it finds them.

I don't do social media like Facebook, but watching those road.cc "bad pass of the day" videos do nothing positive for my anxiety of riding on the roads.

For me on the eastern fringe of Southampton, it's all about riding that 2-3 miles closest to home heading either north east or east. It can be pretty hostile around traditional rush hours and school run times, so I try to time my rides to not be in the "hostile zone" at bad times... Which often results in going out after dinner, at least it's light now until ~2100! 😆

The annoying thing is that once I'm beyond Hortons Heath, Durley or Botley, usually my rides in the South Downs lanes are so traffic-free and lovely.

But the frustrating thing for now, having been able to manage literally a few very easy South Downs lane rides recently, is I've been exercise time restricted to ~30mins z1/2 daily by covid clinic... Which means even getting to Hortons Heath and back is a challenge. 🙁

Come back to the UK and if you dare to drive within a couple of metres of a cyclist you get a mouthful of abuse or your car punched, and if you dare to cycle filter down to an ASL you get abuse and aggressive overtakes.

Is that comic hyperbole or is that really your experience? My experience in London (boo! hiss!) is much more relaxed - but we have quite a volume of cycle traffic so maybe it's better than other towns where cyclists are rarer...?

there’s a certain type of commuting/daily riding cyclist on Twitter especially who seem to have the sorts of interactions with other road users and drivers and street furniture every day that I would expect to have maybe once or twice a year.

Certainly if one goes looking for trouble, one will find it...

Seriously, never see any anti-cycling on Facebook. Just the stuff I follow and occasionally links to videos with skinny young women doing things (dunno what, I never click on them). Facebook did go through a phase a few months ago of trying to feed me a load of stuff I wasn't interested in, but I just dismissed it all and now don't see any of that stuff.
I ride to work whenever I go in and it feels the same as it did when I was doing the same 20 years ago. Apart from being harder arf.
I learned years ago not to read Youtube comments, pretty sure FB is the same. Dunno why you'd need to Quit Facebook.

Certainly if one goes looking for trouble, one will find it…

A courier acquaintance of mine (this is many years ago) never went a week without a fairly major interaction - talking the level of smashing a car wing with a D-lock sort of stuff, borderline assault etc.

I'm not sure if he actively went looking for trouble but he would pretty much always escalate any minor issues to major ones. Just a hot headed rider basically.

I’ve been cycling for 12 years and for the first time ever got a milkshake thrown off my from a car window while out on the weekend.

I've been cycling over 30 years. I've had one cigarette but flicked at me and maybe two cans, both of which were in the 90s.

Is reporting an incident more likely to shame/scare the miscreant into being more careful, or create an even more rapid anti-cycling mentality and increasing the likelihood of punishment passes and abuse to cyclists in the future?.

i can only speak for myself, but if i got pulled up because I’d done something negligent, a close pass or whatever, I would be absolutely frickin mortified.
I do take pride in my driving though.
Any driver/cyclist/ped/etc can make a mistake.

I feel perfectly safe on the roads, and I don't use social media.

I have had one incident in 12 years of road cycling (6000ish miles per year) when I was knocked off at an oblique junction ('sooooo sorry, didn't see you!'). I am not bothered by close passes - what's the point? They don't actually do you any harm. Occasionally one makes me jump on a quiet road, but they're mostly just incompetence on the part of the driver. I can think of a single close pass that sticks in my mind as being truly dangerous when a box van squeezed past me in the same lane at about 60mph. Fast roundabouts and side streets in towns are far more of a concern personally - have had a couple of near misses in those sorts of situations, but again that is just incompetence. 90% of people are fine, 9.8% are incompetent, 0.2% are bellends - and of that only a fraction would actually follow through if provoked.

36 years in and around Edinburgh, there has always been a lot of cyclists and I'd stay the standard of driving is generally good, just the odd nutter/idiot.

My main concern is getting doored - I regularly see drivers fling their door open without looking.

People stopped on pelican zig zags too. It does seem that the extremes are getting more extreme.

The close pass thing is interesting. Yes in one sensee it's not that dangerous but I'll generally give "why do that?" signal - it's about respect and consideration. I rarely have them here but had 3 within a mile in a recent trip in Yorkshire.

Trying to be kind and friendly rather than angry makes the whole thing a lot easier IMO.

Interesting that people talk about anxiety riding on roads - I have anxiety and depression and I don't notice it when riding in traffic.

Interesting that people talk about anxiety riding on roads – I have anxiety and depression and I don’t notice it when riding in traffic.

By "in traffic", I'm taking that to mean a sort of urban commute style ride so forgive me if I'm off the mark with this...

I think in busy traffic on urban roads, you're much more switched on - certainly when I was cycle commuting I rarely had time for other thoughts or considerations, it was all about my flow, the traffic around me, the junction and light timings, sections of road I knew. It was almost zen like in a way - you just get into this zone where you instinctively flick the bike around a pothole because you know it's there, you slot in behind that car you'd spotted from 100m back as the traffic starts to move again, you can get through a 10-mile commute without once unclipping...

I think in many ways it's a different breed of driver in urban/rush hour, they sort of expect to be queuing and in congestion and having to do deal with buses and cyclists and I rarely had any issues.

I’m not sure if he actively went looking for trouble but he would pretty much always escalate any minor issues to major ones. Just a hot headed rider basically.

I should have added to my earlier post, I've seen plenty of drivers escalate incidents too. One driver behaves like a dickhead (maybe cutting someone up or not letting someone pull out), the other driver gets the hump and responds and you end up with two arseholes trying to outdo each other. YouTube is full of such examples!

I do around 50k a day commuting and would say there's at least 1 bad pass, stupid manoeuvre or lack of attention on every ride, but only maybe 1 in 50 attracts a deliberate asshat.

I wonder how the new 1.5m distance highway code thing has affected things, because it does seem like there's been some backlash to that

As a driver, I understand that there are situations where it is hard to give that much space

And as a cyclist, I really don't mind if a driver only gives me a foot or two of space, provided they slow down and pass respectfully

The only close passes that actually scare me are the ones that are deliberate and which blur the line between being a signal of disrespect, and an attempt to actually knock you off your bike

There are probably too many potential witnesses around at rush hour for that minority of a**holes to let their viscious instincts off the leash in the city. That's partly why I find rural riding more stressful. The only issues I have in cities are with careless drivers, and those incidents are often easy to see coming if you are switched on -- which anyway you have to be for urban riding

Interesting that people talk about anxiety riding on roads – I have anxiety and depression and I don’t notice it when riding in traffic.

@MoreCashThanDash, same, I don't notice it in traffic, only rural riding where my nervous system is oscilatting between enjoying the calmness, and wondering if someone just tried to run me down.

I think traffic gives me a kind of low-level adrenaline hit that eases the mind

By “in traffic”, I’m taking that to mean a sort of urban commute style ride so forgive me if I’m off the mark with this…

My use of "in traffic" was a bit misleading, I don't feel anxious when ridingon the road, even country lanes that may be prone to boy racers. Though I am on 30mg of Citalopram so maybe slightly desensitised!

I am slightly more anxious when leading group rides, having responsibility for others, I guess.

and wondering if someone just tried to run me down.

I can only think of 2 occasions in 20 years I've felt someone has deliberately gone for me, so my default is "they misjudged that". I drive cars, I'm not perfect, I allow quite a bit of leeway to others maybe.

My confidence improved when I got the chance to do bikeability for free - after years of riding and commuting, my view of primary wasn’t always primary enough. Level 3 made me more assertive about primary and taking the lane, which reduced the number of times drivers could put me at risk.

A mate regularly posts close passes to the Police and shares the outcome. Some that get warning letters I'd maybe not worry too much about. Some I feel might be avoided with better road positioning, but that doesn't excuse poor driving.

crazy-legs
Full Member
Certainly if one goes looking for trouble, one will find it…

A courier acquaintance of mine (this is many years ago) never went a week without a fairly major interaction – talking the level of smashing a car wing with a D-lock sort of stuff, borderline assault etc

must be a courier thing. A friend of mine (ex motorcycle courier) seems to have endless tales of issues and one or two which I’m surprised he didn’t get in serious trouble.
These days he just does a bit of tree work and he seemed, last time we spoke to have more issues in a 30mins drive than I do in a 40000 mile year.

Ive been in his car and his driving is fine and calm, just any poor driving from others that I’d forget about instantly, he’d take as a personal slight. If I acted a similar way I’d have a heart attack within a year.

I think he got it from his dad who was a pretty decent roadie. It’s alledged he once repeatedly slammed a drivers legs in a car door, Vinnie Jones style when out for a ride with his son and was on the wrong end of poor driving. He also (in his 70’s) put a stroppy driver on his backside whilst marshalling at an event.

A bit of adrenaline, the constantly changing environment gives stimulua, and the focus you need to not hit kerbs/things/people is a good recipe for time out from anxiety or depression imvho. There's no steaming over comments or mistakes in the past when you're concentrated on staying alive...

SM definitely makes it seem worse. I don't believe it to be true though.

Weirdly, the quiet country lanes are the worst. In town/city there's so much going on, so many vehicles, cyclists and other distractions, it all kind of blurs and generally people get on with it.

On a quite, single, back country lane - driver has been floating along quite fast, then suddenly progress is now the speed of which ever cyclist they happen to be stuck behind. Normal humans will be patient, and probably wait for an opportunity to pass. The minority will see red and take it out on you. But they are the small minority.

If I'm having a lovely casual solo ride, I will pull right over and wave cars on, and often get a wave or toot back. It costs me nothing, and might leave people thinking...nice guy that cyclist...maybe it isn't as hostile them/us as the media portrays.

Majority of people are alright.

It certainly feels less safe than it used to. My road bike is on the turbo and my gravel bike has seen more NCN and forest roads than all my other bikes ever have.

Sadly I suspect we're just another target of the right wing culture war designed to distract the masses from the actual bad stuff. Not sure where we rank among asylum seekers, trans people, Greta, Trotskyists, benefits scroungers and pro choice campaigners but we're up there somewhere. If the man on the Clapham omnibus is venting his spleen about lycra louts on FB after reading the Mail / Express, he's not asking why the Gov't are selling the country to their mates. Simples!

Weirdly, the quiet country lanes are the worst. In town/city there’s so much going on, so many vehicles, cyclists and other distractions, it all kind of blurs and generally people get on with it.

@barrysh1tpeas That's how I feel as well

I wonder whether another thing is that, when I'm in the city, I'm typically wearing sh*t clothes, with my trousers tucked into my socks, and generally helmetless

When I'm in the countryside, it's lycra, dropbars, bright colours... I look like a cyclist, rather than just some guy getting to work, and it probably triggers some people

If I’m having a lovely casual solo ride, I will pull right over and wave cars on, and often get a wave or toot back. It costs me nothing, and might leave people thinking…nice guy that cyclist…maybe it isn’t as hostile them/us as the media portrays.

That's my strategy. I consiously think about making allies, so to speak, whenever on a ride

Sadly I suspect we’re just another target of the right wing culture war designed to distract the masses from the actual bad stuff. Not sure where we rank among asylum seekers, trans people, Greta, Trotskyists, benefits scroungers and pro choice campaigners but we’re up there somewhere. If the man on the Clapham omnibus is venting his spleen about lycra louts on FB after reading the Mail / Express, he’s not asking why the Gov’t are selling the country to their mates. Simples!

@downshep Yep, that's exactly what scares me...

There is a catch 22 here. Cycling in the roads isn’t a massive risk. The more cyclist on the road the safer we are. The social media hype harms us if it takes cyclists off the road

I missed this earlier, but absolutely right. Every cyclist who quits is a victory for "them".

I think downshep has a good point that we are a target for the culture war, but it's not working, same as more and more people are seeing through the migrant dog whistle type bullshit and being forced to focus on the true facts as to why times are getting harder

Lovely day today. Weather and drivers - coach stayed behind me about a good 2 miles this morning. CHe turned into my work’s site behind me… after I’d put the bike away, I passed him sat in his coach and congratulated him on his patient driving. Seemed quite surprised!
On the back roads going home, there’s a nice 90deg bend and for the first time in months the road leading up to it was dry, so, as the road is always empty, I thought I’d wang it round the bend nice n fast… oh blimey, there’s a car coming towards me round the blind bend! she stopped. I waved and mouthed thanks… she gave me a lovely big smile.
I should Tweet about it ☺️

I live in Rural Lincolnshire and have cycled for the past 20odd years in and around the local area into Norfolk and neighbouring counties and can't really say atitudes have changed much. I'll still get the odd inconsiderate overtake but make a point of trying to get eye contact or communicating with drivers...of course some have the la la blinkers on and their only priority is them.
In general I feel safe and stay out of the gutter.

I notice a general arrogance though and that can be said for all types of road users.

As for SM I try and stay away from anything remotely negative as I find it corrosive and have no wish to fan the flames.

I feel safe and always have done. But then I don't side in traffic much, don't ride a drop bar bike, don't dress like a road cyclist. All things IMO that make it more likely to (undeservedly) have a bad experience.

Lovely day today. Weather and drivers – coach stayed behind me about a good 2 miles this morning. CHe turned into my work’s site behind me… after I’d put the bike away, I passed him sat in his coach and congratulated him on his patient driving. Seemed quite surprised!
On the back roads going home, there’s a nice 90deg bend and for the first time in months the road leading up to it was dry, so, as the road is always empty, I thought I’d wang it round the bend nice n fast… oh blimey, there’s a car coming towards me round the blind bend! she stopped. I waved and mouthed thanks… she gave me a lovely big smile.
I should Tweet about it

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn't think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

Certainly if I'm out, I'll happily pull over to help vehicles go past me if I'm holding them up.

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

LOL! "sort of behaviour that causes problems." Whatever. Its the close passes from the idiot driver that causes the problem.

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

The attitude is cyclists must be second class citizens when on the road, and must act to accommodate others.

I must remember to pull over, then tug the forelock to each car that passes.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

When they can, yes they do, though they need more space to do it.

The attitude is cyclists must be second class citizens when on the road, and must act to accommodate others.

I must remember to pull over, then tug the forelock to each car that passes.

What a load of bollocks. Do you march on down the pavement regardless of other users? Do you never show any courtesy to others? Or do you just like to constantly play the victim?

Respect is a two way street.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

Err, yes. Frequently.

Sadly I suspect we’re just another target of the right wing culture war designed to distract the masses from the actual bad stuff.

Where do you get this stuff from? Everything has to be the bloody right wing culture war these days. Makes moi larf!

I notice a general arrogance though and that can be said for all types of road users.

🤔

Well, it's becoming rather obvious why some people have so much trouble. If you ride like a dick, people will treat you like a dick (quelle surprise).

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems

The abuse I would've given for such a clueless comment in real life wasn't tolerated on here. (apologies to the mods).
I feel the comment is a level of moronic abuse also - it got me wound up enough to respond like that.
Such a stupid to make such a comment without knowing the road or the circumstances involved.
I think you should go back to pistonheads.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

...yes? That happens quite often on the two lane bits of the A1.

@desperatebicycle I saw your comment and it was out of order. Maybe step away from the internet for a few hours.

I think the anti-cyclist vibe from drivers has diminished, however the general level of impatient and passive-aggressive driving has gone up during busy times; but that's just general and is evident when driving myself, not just when cycling I think.

Yep. I see just as much bad driving when I'm driving as when I'm cycling. But... it can feel worse as I am more vulnerable.

@desperatebicycle - I assume by "stuck behind" you don't really mean it then? Because they're either waiting to pass you and you're slowing them down, or they're not and they just happen to be following you. Personally, as a long long term cyclist, I'd move over if I was blocking traffic for more than a couple of hundred metres, because I'm not inconsiderate. In exactly the same way that if I were driving a slow car (have had this with car that developed a fault) I'd move over regularly too, and if walking down the pavement I don't force everyone to wait for me. It's all about tolerating each other, and not getting in the way. If that first comment got you so upset, I suggest you get some anger management sessions.

So I’m wondering, does anyone else relate to this? More broadly, do people feel that it’s gotten more or less safe for cyclists on UK roads the past years/decades?

It has gotten less safe to cycle over the decades simply because there are more cars and they're generally bigger and faster now.

That coupled with our prevailing cultural attitudes to cars and their use means that Yes, you are less safe on a bicycle now than you would have been 20-30 odd years ago.

However I do recognise that SM has a distorting affect on individual perceptions, like you say being constantly served up anti-cycling click bait when you're a cyclist isn't going to encourage you. And generally the people spouting in articles and comments won't act out their fantasies of mowing us down, it scuffs their precious time box and puts their premiums up...

It's not social media, but I often glance at live Google Maps "traffic" to see how the local roads are before setting off on bike rides.

Is it just me, or are they showing more amber and red these days (indicating more traffic), yet often when you arrive in that area a few minutes later it's far from being busy?

There's other oddities too, for example right now it shows a fair bit of amber and bit of red between Old Winchester Hill and Sustainability Centre, giving the impression that the ridge is actually quite busy. I've ridden that section loads in the last six years, I don't think I've ever had more than two cars pass me in either direction in that ~3 mile section!

Yes, you are less safe on a bicycle now than you would have been 20-30 odd years ago.

This might sell be true. Is that supported by data or is it just your observation, though?

This might sell be true. Is that supported by data or is it just your observation, though?

Given the increase in cycling, I'd imagine data may be tricky to fetch and could be interpreted many ways, but presumably KSI per mile cycled is what we need?

Cars have got so much bigger and wider in the past few years there is less space for everone and that makes me feel less safe. Quiet electric cars may make it worse as you may not even hear them comming.
normally stay away for this sort of thing in SM as its just full of mad people.

It could be true. If the standards of driving haven't changed in that time but there are twice as many vehicles on the roads then, even if only one in a thousand interactions are a bit dodgy, then the number of dodgy experiences has also doubled.

Is that supported by data or is it just your observation, though?

Had a great toad ride of 37 hilly miles in the Clwydian range yesterday. Some much smaller roads than I was expecting, really should have been on the CX bike. Good points, postman pat had already seen me coming way before I saw him and had stopped for me to pass, mile later, stopped to grab a photo, 6 MX bikes came past, all let on to me (lycra clad roadie up some stupid hill on gravelly climbs). Later on, truck slowed to wait to pass, so I pulled into a layby, and then got a big hoot from him as he passed.

Some days its great. Last week nearly got flattened twice in two hundred yards by inattentive drivers.

coffeeking

@desperatebicycle – I assume by “stuck behind”

@coffeeking - who are you quoting with your special "quote" marks? Cos it's not what I posted.

"target of the right wing culture war"
Give over! This place needs to stop the rantings of the Socialist Workers party who blame everything on some one else.
Surely the problem is with the working classes? After all the crappy drivers seem to be delivery workers. I doubt you'll find many of the landed gentry there. Same with the builders vans, the hot hatchback youth and the Green Peace sticker toting middle aged driver, all who fit nicely into the dodgy driving brigade. BMW drivers as well for that matter. Asperational!
Where do the emojies live nowadays?
It has nowt to do with politics. A idiot is an idiot. They drive cars and use social media.
Funnily enough I have never seen anything to do with this topic on SM. Possibly because I fail to see the attraction of the whole thing. I come here, and only hit the chat section by mistake( I want to read about bikes) I use the CUK forum for the same and people there have better manners and I use my cycling club FB page to join in with rides.
At least two of them add nowt to my life.
Just switch the damn stuff off.

ASSETS.PUBLISHING.SERVICE.GOV.UK "https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447674/pedal-cyclists-2013-data.pdf"

/blockquote>
That's interesting, but doesn't actually answer the question! It's ten years old. It shows an uptick in aggregate numbers in the 3 years before publication, but a long term decline...and doesn't compare it to number of kms cycled etc.

 

Later on, truck slowed to wait to pass, so I pulled into a layby, and then got a big hoot from him as he passed.

I've done this and wasn't expecting the big blast of an air horn and nearly crapped myself.

What a load of bollocks. Do you march on down the pavement regardless of other users? Do you never show any courtesy to others? Or do you just like to constantly play the victim?

It is a load of bollocks, because I DO pull in when i see any sort of build up. Main reason is the pricks in the cars might try to force their way around to save those precious seconds.

You know what.my assertions might have been a bit off looking at these

N" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Old government stats from 2015 the first few pages do indeed suggest you were far more likely to be wiped out on a bicycle 40ish years ago and that the situation has improved somewhat, although the first decade or so of this century appears to have been a bit of a flat period in that deaths for cyclists remained a pretty consistent 120ish p/a.

The really useful bit for me is from page 6 onwards which fleshes out the facts a bit.
So You're more likely to have a collision in an urban setting during the morning or afternoon rush hours and most likely to collide with a car, which makes sense.

However more cycling deaths occur on rural roads (higher speeds, longer emergency response times?), urban bicycle users have a better survival rate, and most importantly larger vehicles (HGVs and Vans) are more likely to crush and kill you than cars...

Driver Inattention and vehicle blind spots are significant factors. Of course this was published in 2015 (about the same time as the spate of cyclist deaths in that there London?) and there have been efforts since To address the blind spot issue from cameras to warning stickers. Have these had a measurable effect?

So I'll revise my sweeping statement, you're statistically safer today than you would have been 40 odd years ago and about as safe now as you would have been 20 odd years ago. If you commute in busy town/city's you're more likely to be hit, but also more likely to survive than if you get hit on a rural road... And if you can avoid HGV/vans they're more likely to kill you with their mass and blind spots...

A sample size of one but I used to road ride 30+ years back, then went to the muddy side, and started roady-ing again last year.

The roads are way busier now, and fell apart some years ago. Used to be we could single out on a country road and cars could squeeze by, not possible now as the potholes are breeding. So we try to let vehicles past at every opportunity, and thankfully people on the back roads seem tolerant.

What does seem to have increased is the number of needless close passes, the closest one today by some nob on a big v-twin bike who left barely 300mm at something over the speed limit whilst gassing it. What fun watching the roadies swear (plus my antibiotics are having bowel loosening side effects, so I very nearly literally shat myself).

The vast majority of drivers are fine, but the d***head minority seems to have grown.

I'm not really on social media, but I did think the roads were feeling increasingly dangerous before I stopped riding on them for fun and exercise. The autumn/winter of 2019/2020 it felt like I was getting more and more regularly close passes and head-on overtakes and I decided it just wasn't worth it any more. Nowadays I still have nice bikes for winter and summer in the garage, but I'll go for a run instead of popping out on a social ride or on a chaingang.

and most importantly larger vehicles (HGVs and Vans) are more likely to crush and kill you than cars…

Driver Inattention and vehicle blind spots are significant factors. Of course this was published in 2015 (about the same time as the spate of cyclist deaths in that there London?) and there have been efforts since

Since that awful few weeks in London (may well have been 2015ish) I've certainly felt HGV and bus drivers have got better round here, much more patient and careful with their overtakes. Theres better training for drivers. Cameras in cabs - especially on buses - have meant that complaints seem to be taken more seriously.

Hmmm safe on roads, I don’t think I’ve ever felt ‘safe’ on the road, I’d say they’re inherently ‘unsafe’ as you don’t have the luxury of a steel safety cage and you cannot predict the behaviour/competence of other users and bikes seem more fally over than cars 🙂

I think there’s most definitely a specific set of riding skills required to make it more safer and also planning the best routes.

Is it worse than before due to social media ,dunno I ran off to a warmer clime but I do think that strapping a GoPro on your head and riding along some mad traffic route probably generates a lot of hits and generates media content.

I do like riding with a rear camera and my current fave has the radar as being the victim of an unsolved hit and run never appealed as I do a lot of solo.(every car that overtakes has its piccy taken)

@coffeeking<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">– who are you quoting with your special “quote” marks? Cos it’s not what I posted.</span>

You are absolutely correct, I was using my (entirely normal) quote marks to paraphrase your description of a vehicle sitting behind a cyclist for 2 miles, and that is an incorrect use of normal quote marks.

I don’t think it’s social media: I’ve reduced cycling for fun to almost zero but I notice far more psychotic driving than I used to when driving too. I think it’s drug driving and poor driving being tolerated because of the implications of austerity for policing, the courts, and social cohesion.

(I also apparently have the memory of a goldfish - I see I was already here…)

All it needs is one "anti-cycling" post - doesn't even need to be true anti-cycling, witness the recent tweet from Devon & Cornwall Police where they followed some riders down a hill at close on 40mph entering a 30mph zone. All in control, all fine but they posted that they'd stopped them all and offered "words of advice".

4 days later, it's still a topic in the news, on radio phone ins and the string of tweets replying to the original, quoting it etc is proper Daily Mail level of how all cyclists are speeding menaces and should be run off the road, pay road tax, be prosecuted etc.

These are no doubt the same people who, if they were following riders at 30mph in a 30 zone, would be pushing to get past...