Just been having a skim thru a bike catalogue and spotted a Specialized ground control 4.7inch tyre for £90!!! How can the price be that high? I paid £105 for a Goodyear Eagle F1 assymetric 2 225/45/17 fitted and balanced to my car yesterday :O
No puling skids on fat bikes boys!
How many of that car tyre do Goodyear sell? How many fat bike tyres get sold?
It's economies of scale, innit.
Buy a schwalbe or maxxis at full price and you won't get much change from 40-50 quid, fat tyres are about twice the size and cost twice as much. Unless you buy cheap from on one or go to one of the boutique brands where tyres are well over the 100 mark.
fat tyres are like enduro stuff.....total rip off because it is new and fashionable, regardless of what the bike industry folk think.
It's probably because a tyre mold costs the same for fat tyres and normal mtb tyres, but they sell far fewer fat tyres, so they have to charge more to recoup that cost.
Like a lot of things produced, the cost of materials is insignificant compared to the production and marketing costs.
most, if not all bike tyres will be made by the cheng shin rubber company.
to produce a new size tyre will cost absolute nits. the importers will be the ones who whack up the price.
Have a looke at ridewill.it and get some cheap kenda jugganaughts and other fat goodness that is not on these shores yet for silly money even with postage
Just think how rich you could get if you designed and made a fat bike tyre then. Oh, wait....
to produce a new tyre size will cost absolute nits
Well go on then.
You take the time and effort to design a new tyre, suck up the cost of prototypes, and the time taken to test them (or perhaps pay someone else to, so you can continue with your normal job.)
You'll have to find a manufacturer who can produce the quantity you need, in a reasonable timescale, but chances are you'll have to place a minimum order with the factory. The more you produce, the cheaper they get, but as we know, its still a pretty small market. The more you produce, the greater the risk that you'll bot sell them, so probably best to produce a small(er) run, and pay a higher price to begin with.
Having them shipped over to you in the UK, shouldn't cost much, right? Having them come all that way from the far east only costs pennies, surely.
So once they're over here, where are you gonna keep them? That minimum order from the factory probably wont fit in your shed, so you may need to rent some storage space (but that's only a fiver a month, right?)
Then you're going to need to let people know about your tyres, and how tremendously good value they are. Magazine ads aren't free, and neither is banner space on sites like STW, so you're going to have to pay for that.
Once the orders start coming in, you'll need to take time to package and ship them. Or alternatively you can sell them to bike shops and have them do this for you. They're going to want a cut though (bike shops aren't charities after all)
Of course, to get the word to these shops, you're going to need to take time to go round and speak to them, or pay someone else to.
How about the cost of warranties? as invariably there will be some defects, so you're going to need to factor in this cost to make sure you've got enough money set aside to take the hit on that. How about tyres that get lost en route to the customer? Couriers who will offer insurance on items sent cost more than normal, but its not ok to charge shipping to your customers, so you'll need to take the hit on that. Alternatively send with a cheap courier, or royal mail, but accept that you'll have to suck up the cost of any items lost by them, and send out replacements FOC.
All of that sounds pretty simple and cheap. All in I reckon you could develop, produce and bring to market a new, amazing fatbike tyre with an SRP of £20, with enough margin to discount by 50% when people call it a rip off, with absolutely no basis or reasoning.
[/sarcasm]
In all seriousness, just because something's expensive doesn't make it a rip off.
Surely you accept that when something is still a niche industry/product, it's going to be expensive, right? Surely you weigh up these things when deciding to buy a fatbike, knowing full well that spares and kit are specific to the bikes, and not widely available.
This argument has been done to death on this forum. Maybe there should be a new sticky thread, explaining fundamental economics, entitled "why things cost money"
^'Like'
[url= http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYOO26FAT/on-one-floater-fat-tyre ]£29.99[/url]
Off topic - Isn't listing them at 1800 grams doing them a disservice? Mine were around 1400.
As for price, the floaters are a great deal even at £49
Oh those cynical marketing corporate types. It must be them again.
Well said pinetree.
It's like at work where everyone values their own time/expertise but expects the rest of us to do our 'thing' (which they can't do) for buttons.
How many times have I heard "it's only a 5 min job", when work is directed our way.
Floaters are as said above, nowhere near 1800g, and are ace. And not just cos they're cheap, they are actually bloody good, roll really well and perfect for British winter riding IMO. If only they could do a 29+ floater for even 40 quid, they'd sell shed loads.
IME, standard (black) Floaters are in the 1400-1500 gram range. I think that they are great tires, especially for the price.
I've heard that the colored (white, pink, green, orange) Folaters are heaver than the plain black ones, but I haven't seen any myself so can't be sure.
You take the time and effort to design a new tyre, suck up the cost of prototypes, and the time taken to test them (or perhaps pay someone else to, so you can continue with your normal job.)
You'll have to find a manufacturer who can produce the quantity you need, in a reasonable timescale, but chances are you'll have to place a minimum order with the factory. The more you produce, the cheaper they get, but as we know, its still a pretty small market. The more you produce, the greater the risk that you'll bot sell them, so probably best to produce a small(er) run, and pay a higher price to begin with.
all this tosh is irrelevant, cheng shin own maxxis. they make tyres hence they make then theirselves. no minimum order is needed.
companies like on one/planetx manage to sell tyres/goods at far cheaper than companies selling fashionable must have items.........i wonder how such small companies like this survive? they make a little less profit maybe?...... ❓
Its specialized. They love ****ing the customer.
only until they start cracking and bits fall off.I've heard that the colored (white, pink, green, orange) Folaters are heaver than the plain black ones,
£90 isn't that expensive for fatbike tyres. Check out Husker Dus, Dillingers etc. Of course, they're from cool kids QBP, home of Salsa and Surly.
ton - Membercompanies like on one/planetx manage to sell tyres/goods at far cheaper than companies selling fashionable must have items.........i wonder how such small companies like this survive? they make a little less profit maybe?......
They have lower prices due in large part to their direct to consumer model. Most mainstream brands have another 2 levels in their distribution chain, and those costs are (and need to be) passed on tho the consumer.
For Example
Floater Tire
Vee Rubber (mfr) -> On-One -> Consumer
Mainstream Brand Tire
Vee Rubber (mfr) -> Brand Name -> Importer/Wholesaler -> LBS/Retailer -> Consumer
Its all a tradeoff, though. The Floaters are cheaper. But a tire that I buy from the LBS has sales and warranty support from them, not from On-One USA that is the whole way on the other side of the continent from me (and a week's time ground shipping).
I was running a pair of Vee Rubber V8s - they cost me £35 each
Utter sh*te - side walls ripped our far too quick. They just were not strong enough to be run at low pressures
Currently running some Surely Nates - brilliant tyres - but cost 3 times as much as the V8s
You get what you pay for!
Recently bought some Maxxis Mammoths - cost me £60 each, which is broadly in line with high end tyres on my other bike - first ride on them tomorrow
'Fat Tax' i'm afraid - the more 'boutique' the more tax we pay
It's coming down though ::)
running a pair of Vee Rubber V8s - they cost me £35 each
Can you send me pics and installation notes please.
Pressure. Rim size Etc.
I'm doing some work with Vee Rubber.
Assume with with performance level you will be returning to supplier anyhow?
Ton, mate, honestly you are talking shit on every level. You think importers are driving rollers?*
Maxxis can order small runs of tyres because they are owned by Chen Shing?
Some of us have worked in manufacturing and importing, you have not. Stop your end-user-whining posting, you haven't a clue.
*(SWIDT?)
All you people claiming Floaters are ace.
Have you tried any other fat tyres?
I personaly find the floater okish for a rear tyre buy complete pants on the front.
Some of us have worked in manufacturing and importing, you have not. Stop your end-user-whining posting, you haven't a clue.
Al
1st thing, you are wrong, i still do.
2nd we import from china
3rd there for i do have a clue
we sell four brands that are made in the same factory in china. my md and company owner went to said factory 6 years ago.
we now get all the kit we bought from the four companys, made under our own brand name. therefore we get it at the same price the four get it.
we know make a shed load more cash selling it on to the end user.
like i said, the tyres and other stuff a expensive because they are in fashion at present.
All you people claiming Floaters are ace.
Have you tried any other fat tyres?
I personaly find the floater okish for a rear tyre buy complete pants on the front.
I've only tried nates, and they were like dragging jabba the ****ing hut behind your already heavy bastard fat bike.
boltonjon - MemberI was running a pair of Vee Rubber V8s - they cost me £35 each
Utter sh*te - side walls ripped our far too quick. They just were not strong enough to be run at low pressures
Similar experience with V8s. Running at 8psi sidewalls ripped after 17 rides / 310 miles (140 of those on beaches). Normaly if a new tyre rips I'd put it down to bad luck, but both failed in quick succession. First time I have ever returned a pair of tyres as not fit for purpose
Nobeer.
So the self steer thing and lack of grip for a 4 inch tyre doesn't bother you then...
You can't apply you're local trail conditions to mine, much as you'd like to. There are many different types of sub soils and rock types in the UK, live with it. They roll well, grip well and shed mud, on MY local trails.
Ridden floaters all the year. Bought hates but took them off as they were so expensive I didn't want to wear them out Si I am keeping them for snow.
My floaters (orange ones), have cracked sidewalks. OO sent another pair which are after about 800 km, unused and still running... And will continue to until spectacular wall failure.
Also have some fatbike slicks but they will need dry summer trails ..
They roll well, grip well and shed mud, on MY local trails.
and self steer on any kind of hard surface. 😉
I'll take your word for it.
Maxxis can order small runs of tyres because they are owned by Chen Shing?
Nope.
I'll take your word for it.
so you're running them in double digit pressures then. 😉
we sell four brands that are made in the same factory in china. my md and company owner went to said factory 6 years ago.
we now get all the kit we bought from the four companys, made under our own brand name. therefore we get it at the same price the four get it.
we know make a shed load more cash selling it on to the end user.
I'm afraid your example doesn't really transfer over to the high-end bicycle tyre supply chain, allow me to explain.
Thing is the people who develop the tyres and pay to have the moulds made then own those moulds and any factory with any scruples will only use that mold to make tyres for the original brand that designed them. Ensuring that those who sank time and money into the R&D get to reap the rewards.
The three major high-end Far Eastern contract tyre manufacturers (Vee-rubber, Kenda & CST/Maxxis) stick to this arrangement as if any one of them started making own branded tyres using their clients' moulds the 'Premium' brands would cease to trust them with their designs and they'd hemorrhage contact business to their competitors.
This is why you can't just buy a Surly or 45' North tyre with a CST label on the side. You can buy something very similar and some basic tyres are 'open mould' and labelled by various budget brands but the premium designs remain unique.
So it's not just a case that On-One or other discount brand can just ring up and order X x Surly Fat bike tyres with On-One logos on the side. They either had to use an existing 'open mould design' that the factory offers to anyone or get their own molds made.
It should also be noted that manufacturing expertise doesn't automatically equal design excellence, otherwise we'd all be riding Meridas.
So Ton, it's ok for you to make some money but not the tyre guys?
so you're running them in double digit pressures then.
Nope. Keep digging.
😆
Seriously do you not find they self steer on the front when you get a bit of speed up?
They tend to go whichever way my bars are facing, unless I've got my weight and positioning on the bike wrong. Maybe this is where you are going wrong?. Either that, or you're possibly another one one snob?.
The three major high-end Far Eastern contract tyre manufacturers (Vee-rubber, Kenda & CST/Maxxis) stick to this arrangement as
... Especially as surly use Innova
Okay SS stu what is the extra awesome tyre you have chosen to use.
Either that, or you're possibly another one one snob?.
Nope. Keep digging.
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3722/13925161495_ecb5563470_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3722/13925161495_ecb5563470_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ndw6ni ]DSCF3092[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/18504429@N00/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr
Yep I must be an On one snob as i got shot of my Mukluk for a Fatback, then got shot of that for an On One.
Frame and fork handles great, tyres not so much so...
They tend to go whichever way my bars are facing
**** me even Mrs stu noticed the self steer and she can ride a bike that's falling to bit's and not notice.
You carry on though if you're happy. 8)
what is the extra awesome tyre you have chosen to use.
Bud front year round. On the rear Hu Du when it's dryish Nate when it's swap like. All tubless on Rolling D rims.
I didn't say those were the [u]only[/u] manufacturers out there, nor did I suggest Surly used any one of those three, I just used Surly as an example as it seemed the most pertinent to this thread.
Read my first post, I don't ride where you do. Or just choose to ignore it. Again.
You could ride up the street outside anyones house and notice the self steer..
Or is your road make of some special regonal specific compound. 😉
You win. You and your wife are riding gods. Night night.
Oh dear. Your offended because some people think some tyres are shite.
Awsum. 8)
singlespeedstu - Member
All you people claiming Floaters are ace.
Have you tried any other fat tyres?
I personaly find the floater okish for a rear tyre buy complete pants on the front.
I regard the Floater as a summer tyre.
On any depth of mud with camber, it's lethal, which is fair enough because the lugs are shallow and it's obvious.
For a 4" tyre, nothing grips like the Nate IMO, but in summer I don't want to drag it around.
Brant while you're here, how about a studded fat tyre?
Brant while you're here, how about a studded fat tyre?
my god, that will mean taking a 2nd mortgage out........ 😯
Give the boy a chance.
Brant if you want any fat tyre testing in Yorkshire I'm up for it.
Email in profile.
Please.
Go on.
Please.
Even studded...
Ton, your model is entirely different to the tyre/manufacture one.
SSStu, great big hitting, go you!
I have a on one fatty. It has on one floaters on it!
It has for the 16 months I've had it! I've not tried anything else yet.
This is because I got another pair at £20 each! Apart from winning the lottery and having £notes to burn, at that price I will buy again!
There may be better - I don't know! But Brant did a superb job bringing fat bikes and fat bits to those of us who couldn't afford / find the excuse to buy a fat bike! Brant, you deserve a big slice of cake 😉
Ride a fat bike - they are all ace in their own way 🙂
I'd like to see a Vee do a front/rear specific fatbike set. I know that Shiggy said that he designed a pair of fatbike tires for On-One, but that only the Floater (rear) was manufactured.
And if Vee has any molds for older designs, they need to get the ok from the owner to produce some gumwall tires for the retrobike market! Panaracer do a gumwall batch of their Smoke and Dart periodically, but it would be nice to have some other choices! WTB still sell their Velociraptors, but in blackwall only.
Brant while you're here, how about a studded fat tyre?
You forgot to mention that it needs to retail at £35 😉
Any product that is in a niche within a niche, within a niche within the smallest niche within a niche market sector will be more expensive than something that is useful to the majority of consumers. Especially if it is sold via the traditional route to the end user, manufacturer, to global brand owner, to local importer to retailer to retail customer.
Any section you can cut out of the supply chain saves costs but each section will have a vested interest in marketing the product and therefore making it more successful,
Ton, I'm not sure which sector your employer works in but do you supply through a traditional route to market with a bricks and mortar retailer?
Have ridden all sorts of fat rubber for years including really early imported vee tyres before they started making for on one etc...
Floaters are marginally less self steery than old endomorphs and vee devistators but are massively cack compared to nates, bud, dillinger, and even the kenda juggernaut which is cheap as chips.
So I sort of agree with that stu blokey
Matt24k - Member
Brant while you're here, how about a studded fat tyre?You forgot to mention that it needs to retail at £35...
Och no, I'm no stingy Scot. I'd pay up to £36... 🙂
brant - MemberI'm doing some work with Vee Rubber.
I bought some of the cheap Flow/Fluid 650b tyres from On-One, the compound is great, seems more tacky than Maxxis's super tacky compound....but the 2.4 widths were all that were in stock, great for a hard charging front tyre but a little too wide for a rear (for my liking anyway)....any chance of getting them to do some 650b tyres in narrower 2.2 - 2.35 widths but keeping the excellent tacky compound?
Cheers.
Have ridden all sorts of fat rubber for years
😯 You were a little late to the party buy at least you were at the original party. 😉
Lols at stu 😉 xx
😛
How STW has changed, Once you got flamed on here for riding a fat tyre bike- before they were called fatbikes.
Now folks are slating each other over what Fat tyres they should use! WTF! 🙄
Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks what your riding, if it works for you where you ride, then use it! 😉 🙂
Stick to your 2.5 Minions noob. 😉
Aye i`m a noob... 😕
Hence the 😉
🙂