[Closed] Expected weight of a modern Hard Tail?

My 650b steel P7 is just over 29lb with dropper, flat pedals, huge rotors, wide rims and not-very-light Maxxis Minion and High Roller tyres. It's bomb-proof, but fantastic to ride and fine for long distances. I could lighten it with some carbon but there's no need.

How much are you spending?

My Boardman Pro 29er is 11.5kg, which is less than 26lb in old money

I'm hoping the gnarpoon lite 29er I'm building will come in sub 30lb. Will report back in a few weeks (it is using an old drivetrain though.)

My steel 29er with 2.4 tyres, dropper, wide bars and 1x10 is 29 lbs.

Depends entirely on what you're looking at.

Steel hardtail frame can easily weigh more than a full-sus frame.

My 26er BFe (Flows, Reverb, Marz 44s, X7/X9 drivetrain) comes in around 29lb but is a bit indestructible. Still fine for longer rides though.

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Much weight in wheels and finishing kit, so a lot depends on budget and intent.

My gnarpoon is fairly light (25lbs) but then I built it with crest wheelset, didn't go dual ply, run tubeless, Rev's instead of Lyriks (showing it's age), and had an eye on weight for the finishing kit.

It's all in the mind though isn't it 😉 is an extra lb or two going to make a real difference unless you obsess over it?
My new Surly Instigstor probably weighs in at 31/32 lbs, but it rides great and isn't a slouch by any means (5 KOMs on some local trails today!)

My hardtail frame is heavier than my full suspension frame, doesn't bother me.

Under £1k rrp, I doubt many will be under ~13Kg.

EN testing has maybe pushed frame weights back up a smidge.

is an extra lb or two going to make a real difference unless you obsess over it?

Yes. Cos it's more than a lb or so. A 31lb hardtail is obese! My Patriot with 66s, big fat wheels and 3x XT weighs 31lbs! Salsa El Mariachi weighs 26lbs with rigid forks. Of course I'm not suggesting going rigid, but 30lbs is too much, and you will notice a difference between 30 and 26.

Big wheels and droppers haven't helped, and I think people just stopped swallowing the "bikes must weight less than 30lb" lie.

It'd be nice to have the choice though.

There's no getting over it - >30lbs is bloody heavy for a hard tail. Most full-sus bikes come in under that weight.
My 29er is ooh about 24lbs.
The Plus bikes in MBUK I was reading the other day were around the £1800 maek and came in a range from 26lb to 29-ish.

My Switchback is 29lb and that's with a decent/light set of components.

It's a good few lb heavier than my previous ti frame but I wouldn't say its been a hindrance.

That said, if I could afford a ti switchback I would buy one!

Anyone know an easy way to weigh a bike, im justq mildly curious how much mine weighs so don't particularly want to buy a luggage guage or whatever for a ten second "oh, ok then".

Stand on your bathroom scales then stand on them carrying your bike. Simples!

mattyfez - if you just want a rough number make up a spreadsheet of all the parts on your bike then add the manufacturers listed weight against each. It's probably as accurate as most folks scales on here 😆

Bird Zero 27.5 with xfusion sweep and reverb is ~27lb.

Weighed using the bathroom scales...

My cheap eBay luggage scales are only as accurate as the 8/9 airport luggage systems our cases have been through. Which still makes them more accurate than the Park ones 🙂

when a change of tyres can lose you over a kilo it gets a bit silly comparing things within a lb or so of each other.

ie: my (quite light for) steel HT can weigh 24lb with the light wheels and tyres on, stick the burly ones on and that changes to 27lbs immediately, but then I have another Steel HT that weighs nearly ~30lbs with a hub gear and coil fork so meh...

Things haven't really changed in general trail HT land over the last 10-15 years, the weight has jsut moved around a bit and things have got better/stronger/longer for the same weight so the answer is still ~26lbs give or take 5lbs 😀

There's no getting over it - >30lbs is bloody heavy for a hard tail. Most full-sus bikes come in under that weight.
My 29er is ooh about 24lbs.
The Plus bikes in MBUK I was reading the other day were around the £1800 maek and came in a range from 26lb to 29-ish.

And in the real world they're all a lb or so heavier, due to optimistic quoted weights of small bikes without pedals. The look of disappointment when people put their '26lb trail full suss' on some proper scales is always a delight 🙂

My Ragley Ti was somewhere mid 20s, depending on what tyres it had on. But that took money and effort and some of the parts were a bit marginal in terms of strength

Thanks for the responses. The bike in question is the new p7 which Mbr quote in large at just over 30lb for RS spec. I'll be looking at the boggo one so imagine it'll be even more! For a £1500 bike that seems too much.

Will the Bfe, Bird, etc come out similar? I currently ride a Alpine 5 so know weight isn't worth getting too hung up on but I'd expect a ht to be lighter than fs.

I might be leaning towards something a little less 'capable'.

My Bird is a large with a mixture of deore and slx with dt Swiss e1900 wheels. Including the aftermarket reverb cost about £1350.

A PP Shan frame weighs 2.6kg (5.7lb) and I suspect that'll be a small. That's more than my large carbon Enduro

Not being funny mech but I think your scales are out as your frame won't be more than half the weight of the p7 I wouldn't have thought. People mocked me when I weighed my 5 that way.

Does seem like rugged steel frames are up to FS frame weight which is a shame.

My SAnderson Soloist SS is 28lbs. But it's got burly rims and big rubber. I'm a big, fat heffer with no skills. I'd rather sacrifice a few pounds and have a bike that will last and give me confidence that it won't fall apart.

Just for fun, weighed my two hardtails.

Ragley Marley, wearing Revs, a dropper and old 3x9 XT = 29.0 lbs

Custom Ti Pact with Rebas, Scrapers, 3" tyres and 2x11 XT = 28.1 lbs

Not totally sure what you are saying? You think I am over or understating the weight? According to the Bird website a medium frame would be just shy of 2kg. Bathroom scales are certainly not exact but overall it compares similar to my mates pp shan.

[url= http://shop.birdmtb.com/framesets/bird-zero-frameset.html ]Bird Frame Only[/url]

Thanks fdchris.. that never even occured to me, I had considered a far more complex solution using 2 bathroom scales, one under each wheel, but I don't think that would work!

Does seem like rugged steel frames are up to FS frame weight which is a shame.

No, because they're rugged, if they weren't they'd be something else.

I had a Sunn hardtail from the 90's. Columbus steel tubing and weighed something daft like 1300g. Rode like nothing else, but I'd be scared to leave the ground on it!

I'm more a fan of bikes that 'work' rather than lightweight, my fatty is 30 and something, my last trail bike was 35lb, my hardtail weighs something too but I've never found out. That's not to say 20lb hardtails or S-works enduro's don't work as well, but I don't lose sleep over spending several thousand less on a steel bike. Because somethimes they do things carbon bikes can't (like being left outside in the rain guilt free, locked up at work or left outside a shop without attracting the attention of the local scrote-bags.

There was a good article on bike trends a few months back in STW (or maybe Cranked) with Whytes main designer. He said that they (as in the bike industry not Whyte specifically) no longer obsessed over weight as everyone was typically riding bigger trails and wanted more from their bikes and as such weight didn't come out as a major factor.

My Bird Zero TR Medium with NX11 (apart from the cassette which is GX), Reverb, minions and x-fusion streat forks comes in at 28lbs.

Crikey BBS, my Soloist weighs 21lbs! But then pretty much everything except the frame is carbon.

Cotic Solaris (large) with Hope wheels, Reverb, 1x10 drivetrain comes in at 12.7Kg. Doesn't feel "heavy"and I'd trust it to take some hammer.

He said that they (as in the bike industry not Whyte specifically) no longer obsessed over weight as everyone was typically riding bigger trails

Really? Are they saying the hills and mountains have shot up in the last ten years?

Onewheelgood

120mm RS Revs, Sun Singletrack rims, 2.4 Trail Kings, Hope everything, Renthals, big flat pedals.

But I can ride it like a trail bike rather than a XC rocket made of fairy wings.

😉

People will rediscover one day how nice light bikes can be to ride, and it'll be the next fad. Again.

Chest - Under 30lb for a medium 2016 P7 with a custom build, more or less RS but with XT, Hope cranks, Easton Arc 27 wheels and Stealth. Basic version won't be much different as the Revs will be lighter than Pikes.

Could be wrong but I reckon a 24lb 29er hardtail wouldn't last long around Calderdale, or its wheels wouldn't at least.

Mech... Think you underestimate, it won't be as light as you think. They said the same about my bike and to be fair I'd probably agree.

As for the bikes are heavier because they're expected to handle more.... Balls, for 99% of riders. The ht I had back in 2005 was mid range and nothing special but weighed 27lb, had 130mm travel, was an XL and could handle any trail the right side of dh no worries. Saying that, my sub 25lb retro steel Clockwork would also manage most rides, albeit in less comfort.

I'm no weight weenie but it just seems wrong that a mid range ht is as lardy as a mid range fs. I love steel and would normally choose it above aluminium but a 50% heavier frame that costs 50% more seems lazy to me.

While we're on it, I thought this 1x revolution was meant to save weight?

[i]Could be wrong but I reckon a 24lb 29er hardtail wouldn't last long around Calderdale, or its wheels wouldn't at least.[/i]

And that is something we'll never find out.

I gave up on my 456,part of the problem was it was just a place for old bits so got nothing sensible on it but ht's shouldn't weight more than the fs in the garage that I ride hard.
Anything North of 30lb isn't going in my bike shed (except the DH bike)

People will rediscover one day how nice light bikes can be to ride, and it'll be the next fad. Again.

Yep. I can't even think about riding a bike that weighs 30lbs. My bike is not far off half that weight at around 18lbs and it still doesn't feel that light to me. I am cheating with an SS rigid bike but barring the rims it is a pretty strong build that I would ride anywhere without fear of breaking anything.

I dislike heavy bikes but having bought a few over the last year I've come to realise most of the bikes I like , both ht and fs, weigh about the same and are just under 30lb.

The Solaris frame weighs 2.2Kg which is 17% of my bike's overall weight. What would a carbon 29er frame (that you'd trust) costing £500 weigh?

No idea of the frame cost but the S-Works Stumpjumper HT carbon frame weighs 1070g a saving of 1130g on my frame. Swap all my components over (we'll assume they'll fit) and the total bike weight is now 11.57Kg the frame is now 9% of the overall weight.

To get a light bike the frame is just one step.

I've been trying out some 27.5+ wheels in the Solaris - last night I headed round a test loop and got a PB on just about every segment for the same effort as doing the same loop on the 29er wheels, yet the bike is now 1.5Kg heavier! The loop has a variety of surfaces and 600m of climbing in 23Km. Other than the wheels nothing else was different in what I wore or carried.

It's largely irrelevant.

Average bloke weighs about 83kgs according to the ONS, bikes are going to be 11.7kg to 13.6kg (26-30lbs)...most hardtails are going to be somewhere in that range. Then we need clothes and water and a pack, lets call that lot 5-6 kgs?

so the weight of the notional bike is going to something like 11-13% of the total...

It makes a difference if you leap from a very light bike to a heavier one, you'll notice it at first, but it'll soon get normal, and in terms of speed, it makes almost no difference. I went from a FS carbon yeti trail/xc with 125mm travel to a ali 150mm Trail/mountain and went from about 27(ish) to 32(ish) and my times up some 20 minute climbs have maybe got 30 seconds slower...Important if you're racing, but in every other way, makes no difference.

but you know...whatever floats your boat.

I also think HTs should be less than 30lbs and still be capable of most things. It does make a difference for climbing, acceleration, and fatigue having a lighter bike, despite its small proportion in the overall weight of what you need to pedal.

My large Parkwood is under 27lbs with a non-dropper seatpost, and that was built up with 'normal' parts and spending way less than a grand.

But it's not really about climbing performance...

My medium BFe with XT, Reverb, Minions and Hope Enduro wheels comes in about 28lb. Good finishing kit but nothing outrageous. I'd rather have a bike like that built for purpose rather than have crazy light parts that are suspect in the durability stakes. I fitted a Minion SS on the rear and think rolling resistance helps offset a little weight...

My Zero AM is built up with almost exactly the same parts as my Spitfire, for smashing downhill and not breaking. The Spitfire weighs 31lbs, the Zero 27.5lbs. Unsurprisingly one frame weighs 4lbs and one weighs 7.5lbs. The Spitfire has carbon bars but otherwise there's no carbon on the two bikes, just good quality, reasonably light and reasonably strong parts (eg XT cranks, Hope hubs, Flow EX rims).

As long as weight remains the most easily measured spec of a bike, riders will obsess about it. Rolling resistance and pedalling efficiency both matter more but they're far harder to measure.

I think this thing about bikes "handling more" is an expectation rather than a reality.

Everyone likes to think they are really pushing hard and the next big thing in endurognarcore. In reality, they're probably not actually any quicker.

They may be a shed load more clumbsy though.

It is not all about speed, it is how the bike feels. Your own weight is not so relevant as that is all on your body whereas the bike is more like dead weight.

We also are not all average (overweight) 83kg people...

An 18lb bike is a bit daft for most of the riding most of my friends and I do. Pretty sure it wouldn't be very fun (by my own definition) to ride, and pretty sure it would break fairly soon - parts, wheels, frame - eventually through normal use and quickly if it was crashed. Horses for courses I guess.

I know safety standards have made it harder for manufacturers to make very light steel frames if they're to take longer forks. That partly explains the weight rise (for a given cost).

We also are not all average (overweight) 83kg people..

[Inspector Lestrade]

Thank god your 'ere Mr Homles

[/Inspector Lestrade]

Weight does make a difference. Maybe not 1 or 2lb but you'd defo notice a 5lb swing. I think the above comment might be right about the next 'new' thing being a drive to save weight.

I'm just surprised that weights seem to have increased so much over the last 11 years without any real benefit. Sure, the bikes ride better but a decent geometry doesn't explain the heft.

I'm just surprised that weights seem to have increased so much over the last 11 years without any real benefit. Sure, the bikes ride better

??

I always get frustrated by the weight issue that seems to crop up every now and again.

Compared to bikes when I started, (mid 90's) bikes are hugely, impossibly better in every way, suspension, brakes, gears, frames, wheels...all these things are immeasurably more capable, and at the extreme hardtails might be 1-2kgs more, but most are more or less the same.

It is not all about speed, it is how the bike feels. Your own weight is not so relevant as that is all on your body whereas the bike is more like dead weight

This really, after a point a bike looses it's light responsive feel, for me that's at about 28 lbs. Not so important if gravity is helping you but 80% of the time even in S.Wales I'm going up or on the flat. I want a bike to feel nice not just some of the time but for most of it.

If it's any consolation nick, you'll never convince the old guard that modern bikes are better. Most of them have no idea how much faster a bike can be ridden downhill (not necessarily by me!) over rough technical terrain that would leave an old lightweight hardtail feeling completely out of control as the rims, frame and fork flex out of shape and the fork pogoes/chokes/binds and the tyres pinch flat.

About now someone will post a pic of John Tomac shredding a descent on a scary old bike far more quickly than I ever could on my Gnarpoon. But I'm sure Chris Hoy could lap me on a chopper as I'm pedalling his sprint bike round the velodrome - doesn't make the chopper a better track bike!

I'm sure you could make a 25-26lb 29er hardtail that would cope with anything I could throw at it (as a 2kg above average man), money no object.

With limited funds though, I'll concentrate on getting stuff that works (not that I don't have one eye on weight during this build - it all ads up, I should know as I have a 38lb or so full sus, at which point it matters particularly when you have to carry the thing up hill - but in terms of riding it, tyres make more difference to the speed and feel than 10lb weight difference.)

The limiting factor in how fast a bike goes up or downhill is the lump of lard sat on top of it 😛

Modern bikes better? Most definitely - even bikes from ten years ago aren't a patch on today's models.

Just buy the bike you want (better still, build it) and ride it.... never weigh it.

Be happy.

Most of them have no idea how much faster a bike can be ridden downhill

Probably because the old guard don't care and don't have a bike to go downhill more than 50% of the time. I am more interested in how fast a bike goes uphill and how the bike feels to move around underneath me. In both cases, lighter the better.

About now someone will post a pic of John Tomac shredding a descent on a scary old bike far more quickly than I ever could on my Gnarpoon.

Will this do?

[img] [/img]

Swap the alloy frame for a comparable steel one and put cheaper but strong cranks, cassette, wheels on my bike and it would gain 3-4lbs. Swap to carbon rims, cranks and bars and it would lose 1-2lbs. Weight weenie it with less burly components and there's a lot of weight to lose, easily 1lb per wheel/tyre, 1lb on the fork etc. So the same hardtail could vary between about 22lbs and 32lbs depending on the build.

Philjunior - you can easily make a 29er hardtail like that, on a decent budget with stuff that works and is tough enough.

Heavy doesn't always mean tough/hardcore, and light doesn't always mean fragile/stiff: the compromises between 'strong, light, cheap, pick two' are much less than they used to be.

faustus - Member
Philjunior - you can easily make a 29er hardtail like that, on a decent budget with stuff that works and is tough enough.

It depends how much of a budget. My budget is "oops I didn't really mean to be building a new bike".

I could save 1lb or so going to a carbon frame (from Al), I might save 1/2lb total on the rims if I went carbon (at similar burliness), and if I went for skinnier tyres I would save something significant at no cost, forks I have got are very budget but only about 1/2lb heavier than those that I'd choose money no object (but prioritising function over weight - another lb or more could be saved if I went for SIDs). 1x drivetrain would be lighter (by maybe 1/2lb), but wouldn't get me as far up some climbs as the 2x9 I currently have does, and would be far more expensive.

I'll see what the weight is when it's built. I'm sure it will be fine for me, and it'll be reliable, but I do weigh these things, probably because I'm a child of the 90s.

I'm just surprised that weights seem to have increased so much over the last 11 years without any real benefit

They havent though have they.

Weights [i]like for like[/i] (intended use) are pretty mcuh the same or lower, the difference being that 15 years ago the 'norm' was a short travel XC race style bike as that's generally what the industry was punting out. The people riding long travel and burly HTs were the outliers, but the weights were the same or higher for that kind of bike*, not to mention they broke more frequently and didn't perform as well. Now there's a lot more middle ground with decent mid travel trail bikes that the XC race bikes are used in XC racing, the DH hardtails are in DH, and that leaves the middle ground of middle weight bikes.

ie: The bikes haven't got heavier, but more people are riding those bikes because they're more appropriate/popular/reliable

Weights in the 90's ~ 20lb -> 30lb depending on budget and build
Weights in the 00's ~ 20lb -> 30lb depending on budget and build
Weights in the 10's ~ 20lb -> 30lb depending on budget and build

^ now also consider that in each decade the bikes at any given weight/category are better performing than the preceeding decade.

* eg: A Mk1 90's DMR Trailstar with 130mm coil sprung Z1s, Hope C2 brakes, Hope Bulbs with D521 rims and burly tyres, Azonic bars and stem is [i]never[/i] coming in under 30lbs no matter how much XTR you throw at it.

I love the retro stuff and still ride some 90s/00's bikes regularly but there's a serious case of rose-tinted scales going on in this thread!

it all relative really 30lbs is not that heavy for a bike under say £500, but if it costs a grand yeah it's heavy

^ even that's relative... if you're talking about an XC bike sure, if you're talking about a DH hardtail or burly trail bike it's not, even at £1k

I bought a Chromag Samurai steel hardtail from a mate. With pikes, double Deore chainset and dropper etc it comes in at a portly 32lbs. I was a bitty surprised but its mainly a play bike and a winter basher so i am not too bothered.

Also its the first time in a long time i have no rear suspension. Thats a shock to the system 🙂

Still a nippy little bu@@er though.

I'm just surprised that weights seem to have increased so much over the last 11 years without any real benefit
They havent though have they.

Weights like for like (intended use) are pretty mcuh the same or lower,

I'd second this. My 38lb bike is 10 years old, a similar machine these days would be labelled enduro and 5lb or so lighter. FFS if you spend the money and spec carefully these days you'd get a DH bike 30lb or less.

kerley - Yep. I can't even think about riding a bike that weighs 30lbs. My bike is not far off half that weight at around 18lbs and it still doesn't feel that light to me. I am cheating with an SS rigid bike but barring the rims it is a pretty strong build that I would ride anywhere without fear of breaking anything.

Hmmm, 18lbs...really? Post a pic hanging from some decent scales or I call bs on that.
My lightest MTB (Pace 200 F8, 1x10 XT/XTR, carbon forks, bars, seat post, etc.) feels really light, and in the heft test I estimated it at about 20/21 lbs. On the scales.....24 lbs.

I always get frustrated by the weight issue that seems to crop up every now and again.

Compared to bikes when I started, (mid 90's) bikes are hugely, impossibly better in every way, suspension, brakes, gears, frames, wheels...all these things are immeasurably more capable, and at the extreme hardtails might be 1-2kgs more, but most are more or less the same.

Which is why I compared it to my 2005 bike. That had virtually all the features of a modern bike with no real effort to save weight yet was a good 3lb lighter than the bikes I've been looking at. Same travel, similar spec, more gears yet considerably lighter. I just can't see why this should be the case.

This is nothing to do with rose tinted specs or an early 90's rider thinking my 91 Pine Mountain can keep up with a modern bike. Modern bikes are great and perform better in virtually every way, I was just surprised at the weight of the ht's I've looked at and can't really see a reason for it. I would expect a ht to weigh less than fs but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Phil - you probably won't have to make those kind of build choices/compromises. My bike is alu but less than 2kg in large, alu superstar wheels less than £200 under 2kg, fairly cheap reba 120mm fork, 2.2 tyres, alu bars and seatpost, slx 1x10 is pretty cheap and has a good range...comes in below 27lbs and did not bust the bank by any means. Anyway, good luck with the build.

Hmmm, 18lbs...really? Post a pic hanging from some decent scales or I call bs on that.

I can believe it Tom, rigid Ti/Carbon/Light Alu SS with some carbon thrown at it and it's doable, but then you need to question the "good for anything and won't break" aspect 😉

I've got a 90's Klein rigid SS at a smidge over 17lbs, and my XC race bike is a carbon HT 1x9 XO with a carbon lefty is ~ 20lbs so it's perfectly reasonable, but I class them firmly in the 'mincing about' or 'racing only' category*, pretty sure NJee has had his FS Trek Top Fuel in the ~21lb area too and that's full sus!

For proper riding the ~30lb steel thing comes out instead, and isn't really any slower except busting a gut uphill racing...hell my full suss enduro gnarpooon which is far more capable than I am and still very quick is ~33lbs!

* for example there's no way I'd go crashing down our local runs every week on a pair of 1300g wheels with Podium rims, they simply wouldn't last, so they get saved for racing, but there's easily a whole pound lost there compare to most trail wheels, and that's before you take into account silly tyres etc.

I've had hardtails from 22lb to about 30lbs. IME, generally, my bikes start light and get heavier, most often in wheels and tyres, because it's these parts that show their weaknesses quickest and I don't have the budget to be replacing multiple tyres and rims annually.

Since shifting to 29ers, apart from my wheels exploding, I've found it s not possible to match the weight/stiffness ratio of a 26er with comparable equipment (stands to reason really), so you either accept the extra weight or spend more spondoolies on better wheels. Even then, that doesn't cover tyre robustness anyway.

Whilst I could be running lighter 29er tyres, the current 1kg each set, match the right blend of durability. On 26ers, the equivalent tyres would be 700-800g each.

Sure I could run a lighter bike and still ride the way I choose, but it's running costs in replacement parts would be significantly higher, and I'd inevitably face more down time during repairs.

It's a trade off.

'Rose tinted scales' + 1. Been riding a 160mm Orange Alpine that weighs in at just over 30lb with dropper and a tough build. It descends like 40lb DH bikes used to, but it goes all day and can climb up pretty much anything.