The following- best bike ever, until I had a problem...basically, the relay wheel is hitting the seat tube making a deep gauge in the carbon. 3 month old warranty claim going through and now I've been told Evil won't warranty my frame..They finally admit it's a design fault and 3 internal guys said it must be my fault. They said I am riding it too aggressively even though the marketing says it's an aggressive trail bike with Strobel doing big bucks on it..! They said a 2.2 Ardent was too high profile even though the website says 2.4 max. Basically just trying to fob me off..all I have now is the Internet to make people think twice about shelling out £2400 on this frame that has a design fault...
They admit there's a design flaw related to your issue then say it's your fault?!?!?
Don't give up, keep all correspondence etc and go to trading standards, get on evil bikes twitter, Facebook etc. I'd normally say give them a chance and be nice, but it sounds like you've done that.
Best of luck.
Surely thats a design fault though?
Hearing a lot of negative things about warranty and evil bikes.
Maybe mboy could help you...
I wouldn't give up. Certainly not on a 3 month old £2400 frame/bike.
How did you pay? If credit card you might have some recourse that way.
As mentioned hit all social medias etc.
Did you pay for it on credit card? Is there anyway you can persue it through them? Sorry to hear you are being messed around by them. So many horror stories about warranty and support with Evil.
Edit posted the same time as above!
No great surprise. Evil have the worst rep in the industry.
Hope you get sorted OP
If Dave Hinde made frames.......
As others will no doubt say - your contract is with the shop, not Evil. I'd be talking to them about Trading Standards/not for for purpose etc (nicely at first) but make it clear you'll pursue formally if needed.
I feel bad for the shop selling these bikes - they're going to lose a lot of money if customers exercise their rights - I'd be expecting a full refund.
You've probably already discovered this but Evil refused a warranty claim because the unlucky owner posted something on mtbr forums, so be careful. Obviously once it's resolved to your satisfaction give em both barrels on every forum you can find.
Truly awful company by all accounts, including yours 🙁
The thing is the bike is the nuts..but I am gutted. They sent me a new shock too but it didn't help..they said " you have to realise these bikes are made by people and people make mistakes" ffs I have spent £2400 and have to swallow it???
Also, someone on here warned me about this very issue....I wish I would have listened..!
I can't believe they really said that?!? ^ 😯
It's all logged mate..also they said they will send some touch up paint...lol
This is one reply..
(Evil Bikes)
Jun 6, 14:22 MST
Damon,
I understand where you are coming from, but you must realize a few things here;
Your frame is not worthless. You are not alone with tire rub on the seat tube. Its a mountain bike. Scratches and scuffs are expected (yes I realize this is a little out of the norm). The market for used Followings is strong.
No one is trying to fob you off. Our job is to help you.
We are indeed a bike manufacturer. We do not want our bikes to have issues. Engineers are in fact human. They sometimes make mistakes.
I am doubtful I can make anything better than a crash replacement happen. I will ask around.
What a surprise, said no-one ever.
That absolutely sucks .
[i]You are not alone with tire rub on the seat tube
Engineers are in fact human. They sometimes make mistakes[/i]
=Our frames are badly designed, and badly made yet still cost £2400. But don't blame us when things go wrong- it's just how things are?!!!
[i]Your frame is not worthless
he market for used Followings is strong[/i].
Meanwhile back on planet Earth the second hand market for damaged carbon frames is still a tad slow to pick up...
Just building my Following and am running a 2.2 ardent, may have a rethink now!
Everyone raves about the bikes, trouble the warranty seems shocking! Hope you get it sorted out.
What a load of condescending shite that is from Evil!
Feel for you dude. £2400 is a big pill to swallow. Good luck.
It sounds like it's a design fault in the sense that their manufacturing tolerances are not tight enough to avoid having the rear tyre hit the seat tube on some examples - surely it can't be happening with every Following they've sold, or we'd have heard about it loads already?
Bikes are designed and manufactured by humans. Humans make mistakes. That's why bikes come with a warranty. The manufacturer has to accept that some of their profit has to be spent on replacing frames with manufacturing faults, otherwise few purchasers would risk spending so much money on a bike which may turn out to be unusable.
Occasionally products with manufacturing faults manage to sneak past my business's QC and test processes. When that happens we replace/repair them as required. It's just one of those costs of doing business. You can try to avoid supporting warranty claims but it's terrible for your brand because the word will get out, and such behaviour will cost you more in the long run (though if you've released a really disastrously problematic product - like that Evil from a few years back - you may not have the cashflow to do the right thing...)
Consumer law is on your side. Go back to the retailer and don't back down. So what if Following's are sought after secondhand? How sought after are faulty ones?! Appalling!
Bikes are designed and manufactured by humans. Humans make mistakes. That's why bikes come with a warranty. The manufacturer has to accept that some of their profit has to be spent on replacing frames with manufacturing faults, otherwise few purchasers would risk spending so much money on a bike which may turn out to be unusable
Well said
Reminds me of the shitty response I got from Transition when the paint fell of my Bandit, good luck. Finally got sorted with the UK distributor. Like said earlier your contract is with the seller as I was advised, take some legal advice, I was emailed privately from the forum by a legal eagle whose advice was invaluable and resolved the problem with me receiving a brand new frame.
The manufacturer has admitted there is a fault. Take that to the shop and get your money back.
How anyone can sell them in good conscious I don't know. That's shocking.
The have been shady for years, never paid Cam Zink a penny, always walking away from issues.
I assume you bought through a dealer! Take it up with them.
I'd be putting daily photos on their Facebook and Twitter feeds with the responses to your emails.
[i]Just building my Following and am running a 2.2 ardent, may have a rethink now![/i]
If you take all the air out of the shock, does the wheel hit the tube - if so, get a long shock and/or one with less travel?
What does the shop say?
I'm still confused why anyone would've risked buying an Evil in the first place. They have literally the worst warranty rep ever !!
At least On One / Planet X are cheap!
Bought in the UK? Fobbed off by the importer?
How did you pay for it? Finance or credit card? If either of these ask to speak to their legal dept. Explain you used their credit facility to buy a product that has a major design flaw and you feel not fit for purpose. I had an issue on a car bought on finance (cars majorly different to finance companies?) And it was swiftly rejected/accepted.
Gather up all their marketing/ads etc as evidence. Start being very firm but not rude.
I wouldn't buy anything from Evil. At least when Commencal had a crack issue first owners were sorted out. It still damaged their reputation for a while didn't it? With Evils attitude they are destroying their brand IMO.
What an absolute nightmare. I'm amazed they are even still in business quite frankly, they have such a horrific reputation and clearly seem not to care. Even if the best bike ever, I'd never touch anything from them because of this attitude towards people! It's disgraceful.
Paid on a card through a shop who I know so could be tricky for them..this is defo over as far as I'm concerned as I haven't heard from them in over a week..I want to make one thing clear, i really wanted to support them as I heard the bike was good and the warrant was better..I have nothing but good things to say about Santa Cruz and wish I would have bought the Hightower..
30 posts about evil and no mboy? what is the world coming too.
Card- credit or debit?
Incidental about the shop. £2400 is a heinous amount of money to pay. Would you trust the thing not to fail on a tricky trail or far from the car in 12months time? Credit card = speak to them ASAP. Not the shop. Explain about the correspondence etc. Including the shop in the chain just leads to delays, dragging feet, miscommunication etc. Just keep them in the loop.
He will need to speak with the shop as the credit card company will ask you for feedback from the retailer. If it were me I would go into the shop and talk it through with them. Sure you may not want to upset them but £2400 is enough money (in my opinion) to fall out over. Anyway hopefully it won't come to that. Explain the situation and show them the correspondence! Explain to them that you need an answer within x number of days else you will be referring the transaction to the credit card company directly. I hope you get a positive outcome, I would be devastated if it were me!
Once I got my money back I would plaster the correspondence over social media so others were aware how shocking evils support has been.
Isn't this a B- frame*? Probs really only designed for a 1.8
*the new '+'
so could be tricky for them
They added their percentage on top. Time for them to earn it.
never even heard of these guys
Upto this point what has the shop done in your corner OP?
If they've referred you to Evil, stood back I wouldn't waste time. When it comes to warranty I've been polite but kept it short and moved it along quickly. 3-4 Forks and (thankfully) only one frame.
Sounds like they're trying to imply it's just wear to the paint, can you stick some photos up?
Wouldn't touch an Evil product with a bargepole
I've worked in small LBSs so naturally sympathise with them but they must surely have done some research before taking Evil on as a brand so only have themselves to blame if they've not factored in such warranty claims. It's up to them to chase Evil for their money back or to ensure their margin is large enough to take it on the chin.
mboy is in Italy at a product launch.
There's more to this I reckon - never heard such passive language from someone who just effectively lost £2.4k! With those type of responses from the manufacturer, your cc company will refund you for sure. They've left the lbs with no choice IMO.
As scotroutes says, those email replies are great for you, they make it quite clear where the blame lies.
Just checking you did fit the right sized wheels 😉
Reminds me of a mate who had a twisted intense frame. Intense reckoned that it was within tolerence, then they asked what the tolerence was, er, well, er, well OK
cb - Member
There's more to this I reckon - never heard such passive language from someone who just effectively lost £2.4k!
This is STW though, have a look at threads on twisted Land Rovers and letting a garage keep your money for a year.
This all sounds very odd.
Did you buy the frame through a UK shop?
If so have THEY spoken to us at Silverfish and provided the relevant details?
Maybe drop me a mail directly if you like richie@silverfish-uk.com
Others have probably said this but surely if it's a uk shop then this is surely just a sale of goods act/normal retailer thing for such a new piece of kit?
A retailer isn't relieved of their obligations to the op just because their supplier is being unhelpful. That's between the retailer and the supplier.
IANAL ..... But if it's a [b]manufacturer's[/b] warranty issue then it's maybe an issue with the op / the importer/manufacturer direct but only if the frame is outside the soga time limits.
In the op's shoes I would be looking at the CC route but would give the shop a few days warning to pull a rabbit out of a hat and resolve the issue. The CC companies will generally expect at least a small effort to resolve before doing a charge back.
In the op's shoes I would be looking at the CC route but would give the shop a few days warning to pull a rabbit out of a hat and resolve the issue. The CC companies will generally expect at least a small effort to resolve before doing a charge back.
In the OP's shoes if it's UK I'd be taking rich up on his offer as he is the UK distributor.... Something not quite joining up perhaps
Hope you get a decent outcome OP
Richie...Scott dealt with it, then Cal in Europe then Dylan US...ended up banging my head against a wall...so frustrating..Cal said "new stickers". I know its.pretty low doing the internet thing and have only put it up on here but I am pretty desperate
In the OP's shoes if it's UK I'd be taking rich up on his offer as he is the UK distributor.... Something not quite joining up perhaps
Sorry missed a step yes that first, although looks like he has from later posts.
Hi Discapade.
Can you just fire me across an email with your name and where you purchased the frame.
I'll then look into it ASAP.
Cheers
R
surely it can't be happening with every Following they've sold, or we'd have heard about it loads already?
IIRC there was one person had this on one of the very early ones on MTBR. Mine doesn't do it.
Under credit/debit card scheme rules (Visa/MasterCard), you have 180 days from date of transaction to make/register a claim against the merchant (LBS in this case). Once you have, the card issuer will contact you with a form to complete and also the LBS/merchant with a similar form. This will get things moving, the merchant will not want this 'charge back' against them, if it is resolved to your satisfaction then the case is dropped. Otherwise, you will get a refund. I'm surprised you appear nervous of taking this up with the LBS.
This thread just reiterates why I (& all riding friends) won't be buying an Evil. People seem to be buying the frame on their well earned platform, geometry and handling, in the hope that their CS is 'getting better' only to be stung again. I really feel for them. Some of the most expensive frames out there with none of the support network which should be part of paying the premium.
Awful company Evil, apparently living up to their reputation as one of, if not the worst, in the industry for this sort of thing.
Hope you get a good outcome OP.
Watching thread with great interest! I hope you get sorted Discapade.
EU to the rescue again
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html
I was just about to plonk 2700 down on an insurgent.
Based on this thread and having kind of thought that the stories online from previous bikes might just be the odd story , NOT A CHANCE now it seems the leopard hasn't changed its spot's, or they just make bikes that are flawed in ways that others don't. I had hoped this wasn't the case and their past was behind them as seemed to be the general opinion ,and I really like the thing i figured it might be safe to go for it.
I went through the whole chargeback thing through VISA a few months ago for a laptop from a company called CCL computers in Bradford, complete shysters it seems when it comes to returns and tried at every turn to block my consumer rights under not fit for purpose , it turns out if charge backs are put on their account it can affect their merchant status , they dont like it when you pull out the big dog, but its a little known protection mechanism. Sadly this will only affect your retailer and if you have a good relationship might sour things.
Awful company Evil
Well, there is a clue in the name...
Maybe a company called Lovely, Cuddly bikes would be better?
shitty stick................................................................................................................................Evil bikes
Sadly this will only affect your retailer and if you have a good relationship might sour things.
If enough people do this, retailers may decide it's not worth the trouble to stock goods from manufacturers who don't offer fair and decent warranty support.
At least EVIL have been daft enough to concede that their product is badly designed in writing.
Hopefully he'll get sorted before he has to bring out the big guns.
This is STW though, have a look at threads on twisted Land Rovers and letting a garage keep your money for a year.
That's exactly what I thought. I get mardy if I am down £50, so always amazed how blasé some seem with such large amounts of money at risk.
Well, there is a clue in the name...Maybe a company called Lovely, Cuddly bikes would be better?
Ho, ho! 😀
that sucks OP, hopefully Richie manages to help you out in someway.
"you have to realise these bikes are made by people and people make mistakes"
This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I've been hearing about Evil since they remerged way-back-when, I still remember the first time I saw a Revolt back in 2009 and I completely fell in love with it - I was gutted I'd just spent the same sort of money on a Cove Shocker built and I wanted one so badly - but when I could buy one, the stories about them started to surface and it seems every few year they release a new bike, they're amazing to ride, but too many of them just break for whatever reason - usually piss poor QC and they wash their hands of it, or at least try to weasel out of it.
Worse than that, some of their former frames they've just completely abandoned - "oh I'm sorry your £2500 Uprising frame is ruined, we don't make those anymore, no you can't have any parts, we haven't got any, replacement? Nope, Money back? Nope - errr sorry about that".
I'll never buy one now, as much as I'd love too, I'm too poor and tight to pay thousands to be someone else's R&D department, especially given how 'Evil' they are about fixing their faults.
Yes I hope he does. Not everyone connected with Evil , in whatever loose way, can be as poor as them.
OP think heihei posted an issue with his though he finally got it resolved through his bike shop etc
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/evil-bikes-frame-failures/page/3 ]EVIL[/url]
And yet there is a queue of gullible monied men out there who can't wait to part with their hard earned for one!
If you honestly believe the magazine bullcrap that these bikes ride two to three times better than frames costing a third to half of the amount then you need your head read.
Sadly this will only affect your retailer and if you have a good relationship might sour things.
They made a business decision to sell the Evil brand knowing the awful reputation of said brand - no sympathy for the retailer.
Hope you get if sorted .
I really don't get this business of such-and-such manufacturer is good with warranty or not good with warranty...
The behaviour of the manufacturer is nothing to do with you, the consumer, unless you've bought direct from them. If the shop refer you to them, and you're happy to deal with them, and they look after you - great. However the business you bought from (and therefore have a contract with) is where the responsibility lies. The emails you've posted indicate quite clearly that the product is inherently faulty (of course we don't know the full story, so there may be more to it than we've seen) - but if that's the case, you're entitled to a refund or replacement from the shop. They have to honour that, regardless of what their supply chain then does for them. If they're a good shop, they'll sort you out without any issues. If they're not a good shop, they'll still have to sort you out anyway.
We've never sold Evil, but in our experience Silverfish (who will have supplied the shop, and who will be responsible for fixing this problem for them) are generally excellent - but again, that's not your problem anyway. It sounds like Richie is going to get involved, which will help, but the shop should be sorting you out anyway on this.
You realise UK law gives you 6 years? Thanks for proving that being in the EU is totally unnecessary 🙂EU to the rescue againhttp://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html
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If they're a good shop, they'll sort you out without any issues. If they're not a good shop, they'll still have to sort you out anyway.
This. If, as you say, you have a great relationship with the shop, they will take pride in sorting you out and not making you feel like you're shafting them. If something like this sours the relationship, it was never that good in the first place.
Just claim on your credit card, that is what its is for. If the shop is a proper business then they will be used to things like this and wont have an issue. They can then take it up with Evil to get their money back. Thats business!
Not the first time Richie's had to step in, is it?
Presumably the brand is profitable enough to justify the odd PR nightmare and expense of replacement.
You realise UK law gives you 6 years?
In practice though, once you're past a year or two, it becomes hard to say whether something is fair wear and tear or a flaw in the product. I once had a futon that broke after 18 months and trading standards sort of shrugged at me and said "Try to strike a deal with the retailer as otherwise you'll need to go to court due to the age of the item".
Watching this thread with interest as I was going to buy an Evil frame this week.... Maybe not now! 😯
True, although if the manufacturer has been kind enough to email you admitting it I'd suspect it would be less hard!In practice though, once you're past a year or two, it becomes hard to say whether something is fair wear and tear or a flaw in the product.
If you honestly believe the magazine bullcrap that these bikes ride two to three times better than frames costing a third to half of the amount then you need your head read.
I always read this threads with a degree of trepidation because it seems that unfortunately Evil's reputation is justified.
However - I have an Evil (Uprising). It's the best frame I've ever ridden. I wonder what ex-evil owners go on to ride and how they compare?