Looking for some help here folks from anyone who has maybe owned both the Ellsworth Epiphany and Intense Tracer. I have the option to swap my Epiphany for a Tracer and i'm trying to find out more about the ride characteristics of the VPP2 Tracer. I havent ridden the Epiphany nearly as much as i should have but i know its a cracking machine and goes uphill like a goat but how is the new VPP2 design at climbing compared to the ICT.
Ive read reviews saying the ICT is one of the best bikes out there for climbing and descending but obviously the VPP isnt too shabby either plus its really really nice looking 😀
Other big concerns are that ive read of intense frames cracking. Every frame manufacturer has a certain amount of breakages and i dont think i'm that hard a rider so should be alright. Other concern is that my mate has a 5.5 and has had a few issues with it with pivot bolts snapping and bearings going after not a very long time. Has this been resolved since then?
Cheers for any input folks
Cant really see the point in buying an Intense when you could have something far better from the likes of Giant or Specialized or some other manufacturer that makes a decent frame with a decent warrenty that wont be welded skewiff.
as of late i have been noticing the benefit of having a good warranty from the number of people on here you see with knackered frames. The fact you mention Intense frames being welded skewiff worried me though. Has there been a few cases of this?
Has there been a few cases of this?
hahahahahahahahahahahahah
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intense welder!
Admittedly I've only owned a tracer, had it for 3 years now and absolutely love it! Definitely the best climbing bike Ive ridden, and I've tried my fair share of them.
The frames mis aligned was a few out of one batch, and was sorted by intense very quickly. Its like buying from any other manufacturer, they all have their mistakes and there all support you to get it sorted.
Anyways back to the positives, you wont be disappointed if you go for the tracer. I've tried to find something to replace it with, but after 18 months of looking I've yet to find anything that makes me smile as much. 😀
Cheers Cruzer. Can you tell me about the longevity of the bearings please and any failures at all with the bike? Looks like a nightmare to clean in and around the shock and linkage.
I have 2 Intenses in my bike quiver, an EVP 5.5 and a 66. Both fantastic, ridden hard for 5 years and require bearing changes no more often than anything else. In the past I've bought 2 Specialized Enduros in which the bearings and rear shock were toast after 18 months (I'm an engineer and put it down to alignment issues in the frame bending the rear shock - Spec didn't want to know so I'm no longer a customer). Same shop sold my riding buddy a Giant Reign with the claim that he would never need to change the bearings - sounds like a bag of spanners after 18m. As for 4 bar v VPP, I have both and think VPP is much better for longer travel. The Epiphany is lovely but will bounce like crazy when you want power, whereas VPP firms up when you put your foot down. Going down there is nothing to choose between either system. My choice, unsurprisingly, would be the Tracer.
On my Tracer VP the bearings generally survived a year of riding in Scottish mud. It was a good climber and great at descending. The Tracer 2 which I have now, is a different animal and I think Intense have got it right this time.
The T2 climbs well but its strengths are descending. Its bombproof and was perfect Mega Avalanche weapon, I preferred it to the Uzzi VP I used the year before. With a dh wheelset and CCDB coil its been used on Munro's and uplift days. I run it on short travel with different wheelset for hacking about local trails.
Bearing on the T2 have been going for 18 months (grease ports doing their job ) with no play but will replace soon, although they are still spinning ok. I would go with the Tracer, but if you can get a Tracer 2 then I would recommend that instead.
I've had 2 intenses. First, a 5.5 which I loved. I rode that week in week out for 3 years all over the country and replaced the bearings 2 years in, never any issues and enjoyed it immensely. It climbed like a goat and descended pretty well too.
After a major accident I decided I needed bigger and less steep a head angle so bought a Tracer frame. Now, this bike too was fantastic, but after a year of getting I got rid. Why? Well, you need to beat in mind the next few comments are "personal" rather than mechanical. First off, my Tracer RP23 combo suffered from the infamous mid stroke Wallow that you'd be able to google in 2 seconds. I got the shock pushed by TFT , then later a coil shock to fix the issue.
Now, I'm a chap that likes to feel the rear of the bike working, and I feel this was my issue (for example I don't get on with the dw design either). I couldn't get the initial stroke soft enough (for me) without the bike blowing through the bigger hits very quickly. But I repeat, that a [b]personal[/b] requirement and in some respect I've just described vpp - firm and efficient initially, lots of travel later. It's worth mentioning though that I never felt this issue with the 5.5.
I believe the T2 is less prone to this but also the Tracer VP really suits a logger travel requirement than forest trails. RopeyReignRide on here has the peaks as his backyard and us happy with his Tracer from stock.
I'd suggest riding one before you buy and spending some time with the shock pressures.
If you already have an Epiphany then personally I would not change it for a Tracer. The overall quality and ride performance of the Ellsworth are better. If you were considering both as your next bike then I'd say demo both and go with whichever feels better to you. I find ICT to be far better as an all-round performer.
Ive only just changed the bearings, after 2 1/2 years. In that time Ive used the bike for everything from DH to XC and ridden mega twice on it.
Im running a CCDB on mine, definitely worth the upgrade if you get a chance.
The Epiphany is lovely but will bounce like crazy when you want power,
total and absolute bollox
Tazzymtb - do you have both ICT and VPP and so warrant such a profound statement? I speak with the knowledge of someone who does. My post was just a response to a question, not an invitation for abuse.
Tazzymtb - do you have both ICT and VPP and so warrant such a profound statement? I speak with the knowledge of someone who does
yes, owned and ridden and raced both. Personally I rate the ICT as miles ahead of the VPP. To say the ICT system bounces like crazy is just a daft statement, from personal experience of shorter travel Truth, mid travel Epi and longer travel moment.
Even the ICT system on the merlin 4.0 was not bouncy under power.
Ridden VPP on both santa cruz and intense and for me, it's efficient, but no-where near as responsive and supple as the ICT(and yes I do know how to set up a rear shock 😉 )
I know big lads found the ICT system had a bit of slur so it may be down to tubby pedal mashing 😆
Stick with the Ellsworth.. ICT is way better
ok so near as dammit theyre both superb bikes wwith pretty efficient suspension designs. I think the Epiphany is going as i just fancy a change and blue is my favourite colour. Ive certainly not taken this decision lightly and have been through all the marketing/suspension bumpf on both Ellsworths site and Intense. Plus its a new bike and everybody loves that new bike feeling 😉
Defo Tracer:
and cheers as well guys for all your help 😀