I was talking to a police officer yesterday who was at our work doing bike security marking. Apparently lothian police are starting a campaign to enforce fining cyclists who go through red lights. They are intending on being quite strict and theres a £30 fine. They are also going to get stricter on motorists in the red cycle boxes, £60 fine and 3 penalty points.
Just a heads up for anyone around edinburgh who doesnt usually bother stopping.
This morning on the way into work I saw the police cyclists handing out a fine to a student who went through a red light.
Good. Some of the Edinburgs cyclists are nuts quite frankly.
Some of the Edinburgs cyclists are nuts quite frankly
Come on now, we all know who you're talking about!
Troll! 😀
Still if true I'm loling at the image of TJ telling a police officer why he's allowed to RLJ
No issue with it though, particularly if
They are also going to get stricter on motorists in the red cycle boxes, £60 fine and 3 penalty points.
funny, i didn't think it was enforceable OTS. Local community bobby said it was max £30 fine for anything naughty done on a bike, jumping reds, riding dangerously, riding drunk etc and they only usually hand them out if it's someone they want for something else. Even then it still has to get passed the fiscal. so the moral is ride like a beller as they can't/won't do anything
www.lbp.police.uk/crime_prevention/cycle_safety_events.aspx
www.lbp.police.uk/PDF/6%20Sheet21.pdf
A new road safety campaign launches this week as part of the Streets Ahead partnership. The initiative aims to reduce the number of road traffic incidents involving cyclists on Edinburgh’s roads.
Led by the City of Edinburgh Council with Lothian and Borders Police, the Drive Safe, Cycle Safe campaign will run throughout Summer and Autumn, educating road users on types of behaviour that can be hazardous to both cyclists and motorists.
Phase one of the campaign highlights the importance of observing traffic lights and advanced stop lines (or cycle boxes).
As part of the campaign, a series of road shows will run this week across the city – come along for the opportunity to get some safety advice and have your bike security marked for free*
Mon 2nd April
11am-2pm
Waverley Court (City of Edinburgh Council HQ)
Tues 3rd April
11am-2pm
Outside Teviot House (Edinburgh University)
Wed 4th April
11am-2pm
Outside the main entrance to the Royal Infirmary Edinburgh
Thurs 5th April
11am-2pm
Outside King’s Buildings, Edinburgh Uni
clubber - MemberTroll!
Still if true I'm loling at the image of TJ telling a police officer why he's allowed to RLJ
I have always said if caught I will not struggle - simply pay the fine.
Only the poor people need to stay within the law?
Nope - just don't bleat if you get caught breaking it.
Choose to break the law then accept your punishment if caught
Out of interest, does anyone know how many accidents in Edinburgh are caused by cyclists RLJ'ing?
sweet FA
This is good news, the bike box thing in particular is good to see being enforced. I hope they don't just hang around the studenty bits of town picking up red light jumpers because its so easy though.
Whats this security mark thing? COuld be good...
I once saw a bike startle the wotsits out of a woman who was walking at the green man.
Right enough nobody was hurt but it's quite an arsey way to behave. I find it interesting that it's always older, more respectable looking people (suits) that I see riding on the pavement, through lights and generally being dicks.
bigjim - can you email me please?
Out of interest, does anyone know how many accidents in Edinburgh are caused by cyclists RLJ'ing?
I'd image quite a few, but to me its more about the bad image it gives bikers. I don't see why it should be accpeted that bikes can do it but cars can't, it p!sses me off when either do it. I did nearly hit a cyclist who shot through a red at the bike lane crossing in bruntsfield the other morning though as I was crossing.
bigjim - can you email me please?
I didn't do it sir 😥
No Troll and not aimed at TJ. Some of the riders I see in Edinburgh are taking so many stupid risks. It's a red light, so just stop. Whats the big deal? Running across the pavement pushing bike to avoid the red light, then getting passed by me as they turned green and their still clambering back on their bike. Great way to save two seconds doofus... Hopping on and off pavements, some **** just about wiped out my sister as the left a restaurant the other week he was speeding down the pavement. Don't start me on the trams either...
So, the big question is if TJ RJLs on his tandem do both riders have to pay???
If the max fine is £30 no matter what does that mean it doesn't get any more if you try and out run them and still get caught? That's a whole new game...
It would be fairly simple to outrun them around Edinburgh 🙂
As said many times I only RLJ at junctions I know well and where it is safer for me to do so than to stop. I do it slowly and carefully and do not inconvenience anyone by doing so - indeed it actually can help traffic flow by getting me out of the way
maybe 1 in 20 lights I meet?
Hope they do the same in Glasgow.
[i]and do not inconvenience anyone by doing so - indeed it actually can help traffic flow by getting me out of the way[/i]
Apart from other road users thinking ALL cyclists ride with complete disregard to the rules of the road.
I noticed this morning signs up in lots of bus stops in Edinburgh asking drivers to observe the red box. And lots of drivers ignoring it.
P.S it's silly, on a bike you don't have to carry a licence, so you could just give a false name ?? There is no requirement in the UK to carry identification.
P.P.S not that I am suggesting one give a false name to the Police, for the record
Witnessed an accident yesterday thanks to a RLJ.
Guy on a fixie (yep, this is london, sorry) jumped a light at a four way crossroads as a guy on a motorbike was coming through on a green light (he had just overtaken me). Motorcyclist swerved to avoid the fixie guy and came off, smeared his bike across the junction right in front of me.
I stopped to help, got the motorbike (a nice sportsbike) off the road, the rider was in full leathers, but was limping badly.
All the cyclist was saying was "is he calling the Police? He isnt calling the Police is he?" which seemed a little odd to me.
So i guess now and then it does have consequences for someone else. Not all the time though. Judgement is key....
[b]whatnobeer[/b] - In Edinburgh I've witnessed 2 collisions with pedestrians and RLJ's (and a few near misses). Nobody seriously hurt in either case and presumably not reported to the police. Given I don't actually live or work IN edinburgh, but just spend a reasonable amount of time there I'd guess that there is enough of a problem to be a perceived risk.
Certainly RLJ's result in drivers having a lack of respect for cyclists which is not good for the law abiding cyclists. It seems completely reasonable to me that if they clamp down on unwanted driving behaviour from motorists they do the same for cyclists.
[b]hels[/b] - there are a number of offences where you could 'just give a false name' when stopped in the street (litter, dog fouling etc). Its not a very smart thing to do, as giving false details is likely to find you acquainted with the inside of the cells if found out. The power of modern communications and databases means (i) a made up address will be easily spotted (ii) a false name at a real address is likely to get flagged as not being on the voters role and lead to further investigation (iii) using a 'friend's' details runs the risk you get lifted for any outstanding warrant in their name. If the officer has any reason to suspect your identity is not as you have provided then they have the power to arrest you whilst determining your identity.
[b]stevemtb[/b] the maximum fine for jumping a red light is IIRC £500. If dealt with at the roadside by Fixed Penalty it is £30. Trying to outrun the cops is likely to find yourself reported to the Fiscal and facing a potentially larger fine, or additional charges such as failing to stop.
Certainly RLJ's result in drivers having a lack of respect for cyclists which is not good for the law abiding cyclists
Motorists routinely break the law, so why would perfect compliance from cyclists earn their respect?
The majority of other road users obay they rules of the road.
pebblebeach - MemberThe majority of other road users obay they rules of the road.
Rubbish - its a tiny minority.
Rules broken continuously:-
Leaving safe braking distance. passing far enough from vulnerable users, stopping in the correct place at traffic lights. Obeying speed limits. parking legally. using indicators. demisting windows, using lights appropriatly
Its a tiny minority of car drivers who actually drive within the law. the vast majority do not
Its very ver
Whats this security mark thing? COuld be good...
https://www.bikeregister.com/how-it-works
Just a simple bike marking, id code and a sticker. Better than when I got it done as a kid where they hammered a code onto the frame under the BB
You're talking bollox fella, commiting a crime just because other people do it isn't acceptable.
Jumping red lights is wrong, therefor YOU ARE WRONG.
Jumping red lights is wrong, therefor YOU ARE WRONG.
I jumped a set of (only-just-changed-to) red lights this morning cos there was a bus 6ft behind me which also jumped them. If I'd have stopped I'd be dead now.
Is that wrong?
[b]Sensible[/b] RLJing on a bike isn't a problem. Bikes are not cars (which the roads are designed for), they fit into gaps and integrate with the traffic without any worries. Rolling up to an empty set of lights with no danger to anyone else, I will sometimes just roll through. I will [b]never[/b] blast through a set of lights willy-nilly, scattering pedestrians in my wake.
The majority of other road users obay they rules of the road.
No they don't.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but the idea that perfect behaviour from cyclists would gain more respect from motorists doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
ransos - Member
the idea that perfect behaviour from cyclists would gain more respect from motorists doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
How so?
Treating a red light as a give way and going through when there is no peds on the road or crossing traffic causes no danger to anybody. That said, anybody stupid enough to do it within sight of the police deserves a £30 ticket as their observations are not up to scratch.
Today I've seen no bikes red lighting. I've seen numerous cars speeding. Several cars red lighting. A works van parked in a disabled bay while the occupants ate lunch. Several smokers throwing cigarette ends on the street. The driver of a 4x4 traveling behind me was holding his mobile to his ear for 3 miles. Several double parked vehicles causing an obstruction. A fairly average day.
I don't think red light jumping by cyclists is a huge problem.
I cycle right through the city (Royal Mile - Crammond) every day. Pretty much every night the Cowgate lights are red with nobody walking or waiting.
I still stop and wait till they turn green. Why? 'cause maybe drivers will see me and think "What a nice guy, these folk on bikes are really splendid fellows, etc".
It doesn't really cost me any time. I soon catch up with and get stuck behind traffic anyway - so why not stop and look like an angel 😀
How so?
Because most motorists are habitual law-breakers themselves, so why would they be bothered about cyclists doing the same?
the idea that perfect behaviour from cyclists would gain more respect from motorists doesn't really stand up to scrutiny
Yes it does, lead by example, treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, etc. There is no excuse to jump red lights/
Because they don't consider that they are law-breakers. Not saying it's right but that's the mindset.
Yes it does, lead by example, treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, etc. There is no excuse to jump red lights/
Which is what I do. But if you think it's going to make an iota of difference to motorist behaviour...
It doesn't really cost me any time. I soon catch up with and get stuck behind traffic anyway - so why not stop and look like an angel
I filter through traffic. I don't get stuck behind it.
ransos - Member
How so?
Because most motorists are habitual law-breakers themselves, so why would they be bothered about cyclists doing the same?
doesn't really stand up to scrutiny
picking up red light jumpers
ah, that will be barnsleymitch out for the night...
Because they don't consider that they are law-breakers. Not saying it's right but that's the mindset.
I suspect most motorists know it, but simply don't care.
A majority of motorists think that cyclists shouldn't use the road at all. Do you honestly think that stopping all RLJing is going to change such entrenched opposition?
As an aside, it's routine for motorists to RLJ on my commute - at a crossing full of pedestrians heading into town. I despise them for it.
You can, of course, back this up with some research? I mean, it's not just some uninformed opinion - is it?ransos - Member
A [b]majority [/b]of motorists think that cyclists shouldn't use the road at all.
I filter through traffic. I don't get stuck behind it.
Ever been sworn at for (legally) filtering? I have. That's the level of ignorance and disrespect we're up against.
I filter through traffic. I don't get stuck behind it.
How do you do that [b]safely[/b]? I'm talking about the slow (15mph) moving traffic that I get from Cowgate to Haymarket. Not stationary stuff.
druid beat me to it.
What nonsense, why do folk even bother.
A majority of motorists think that cyclists shouldn't use the road at all
Err I doubt that, a small vocal grumpy minority I would say. Don't get me wrong I think a lot of drivers have a terrible attitude towards cyclists, and I really don't enjoy commuting on busy roads in Edinburgh any more, but that isn't a reason to play by different rules for no reason. I see as much bad cycling as driving I think though.
You can, of course, back this up with some research? I mean, it's not just some uninformed opinion - is it?
69% of non-cyclists believe that roads are too dangerous to cycle on. We can only speculate as to the reasons why they hold this belief...
Ah...quite different to:
A majority of motorists think that cyclists shouldn't use the road at all.
Ah...quite different to:
If you think that roads are too dangerous for cyclists to use, then you don't think that cyclists should use roads.
majotiry of motorists =/= majority of non cyclists.
majotiry of motorists =/= majority of non cyclists.
69% of respondents overall were motorists.
31% overall were cyclists.
69% non-cyclists believe that roads are too dangerous to cycle on.
What do you think the chances are of only a minority of motorists believing roads are too dangerous to cycle on?
"chance" means nothing. Where are your stats?
EDIT: LOL at this quote from that report:
58 per cent of cyclists said that they were very or fairly confident cycling on the roads compared to 20 per cent of non-cyclists.
You can, of course, back this up with some research? I mean, it's not just some uninformed opinion - is it?
Have a look at page 8
Ah, the usual turgid STW "discussion" on rights/wrongs of how to cycle on the roads properly 🙁
Personally, I'm glad that the police are (at least looking like) they're taking cycling safety seriously in the city. Don't think RLJ-ing specifically is the issue, to be honest, but generally the attitude of motorists to cyclists.
I've had two run ins with drivers in as many weeks, and it's nothing to do with jumping lights, just a lack of awareness on the part of the drivers that cyclists are incredibly vulnerable. Sadly, cyclists who RLJ are implying to drivers that they are not vulnerable and basically "fair game" on the roads. I think anyway...
. There is no excuse to jump red lights/
yes there is - when it is safer to do so than to wait. Then I will.
However it is a very minor point. I have no problem with the crackdown in this case.
How do you do that safely? I'm talking about the slow (15mph) moving traffic that I get from Cowgate to Haymarket. Not stationary stuff.
It's the stationary stuff that holds me up in the city (if I don't filter). At 15mph I'll happily sit in the center of my lane moving with the traffic flow.