[Closed] E-Bikes and that HiBike on the STW News

One place I could see these being interesting is the likes of BPW as hire bikes. Allow people to power up the hills if they didn't feel like riding. In fact, for trail centres over all? Why not. Beyond that?

Nope. Not keen at all. If you want to ride a motorbike, that's fine, please do so, but I really don't want to see these things on proper trails (Beyond playgrounds, as mentioned above)

I wouldn't want to operate them as hire bikes, too much to go wrong.

Think this could potentially be the mythical issue that all STW agrees on (OK, apart from the chap who flogs them, who popped up on the news story).

And even for those who don't think it's wrong on principle, there's the [i]unthinkable[/i] consequences of E-bike users being on Strava.

I'm no 29er fan, but i'm still polite to 29er riders - a bit of light ribbing, but we are both mountain bikers

E-Bike riders - i have the feeling that i'm gonna be downright rude to then

Grrr, this isn't good - i'm getting stressed and i haven't even come across one yet 🙁

I met a chap out on one, think it was a Haibike- he was using it because he couldn't ride normally due to injury. I'm sure he'd appreciate people being a dick to him for that.

I had a go on one a while ago. It was fun. The world did not end.

met a chap out on one, think it was a Haibike- he was using it because he couldn't ride normally due to injury. I'm sure he'd appreciate people being a dick to him for that.

IIRC, Ton, of this very parish, had an e-bike for a while for the same reasons.

I had a GoCycle on loan for a while. It had been chipped, and was a hoot to dash around town on. At the time, I was in a job where I was between two or three London locations per day, and could easily charge the bike up at each one. As such, it made a lot of sense as a fast mode of transport. Loved it. Wouldn't buy one, though.

I would feel a bit aggrieved being overtaken by one, but I thnk the main issue is that it has the potential to create more conflict with other trail users who perceive it as an e-motorbike. I fear that 'normal' cyclists would then take the reputational hit as a result, that is something I wouldn't want. Particularly in areas of hard-won access.

I rode a ebike for 2 years when I 1st got ill with my heart.
they are fantastic.....and kept me riding when it was my only option.

I had a haibike, it was truly offroad capable. and if I got any worse healthwise, I would not hesitate to get one again.

why knock something that gets folk out in the fresh air?

I rode a ebike for 2 years when I 1st got ill with my heart.
they are fantastic.....and kept me riding when it was my only option.

I had a haibike, it was truly offroad capable. and if I got any worse healthwise, I would not hesitate to get one again.

why knock something that gets folk out in the fresh air?

^^This.

All those sneering at e-bikes allowing people to ride "without getting fit" - who cares?!?!?! It should be about having fun on a bike, not some perceived level of fitness. Extending that argument would see you sneering at anyone other than lycra clad 24 hour XC racers as everyone else isn't as "fit". There's more to mountain biking than just the physical aspect.

If an e-bike allows someone to ride that otherwise couldn't, then that's all good in my book.

These e bikes could be seen as the next evolution of gears, brakes, suspension etc. IE not necessarily a skill compensator, but more of a fitness compensator.

IMO they are inevitable, as the cost comes down, they will become more widely used.

I'm not sure whether thats good or bad, but I'm not dead set against them.

Regarding poorly people - If they were subject to a licensing system similar to disabled badges for cars then I think exceptions could be considered.

Otherwise I'll carry on sneering thanks.

chakaping....lets hope you never get ill eh

If they cost a bit more than a bicycle then I'd be interested. But they cost a bit more than a motorbike. So I'm not.

But I don't see a problem with them.

I feel if you work earn your money. And don't hurt or bother anyone else you should buy/spend your money on what ever you want!!! Love love to try one and if battery tech evolved to make them light and powerful enough I think they will be popular.

There's an old boy lives near me, must be in his mid 70's now, I saw him the other day off road on his mtb, doesn't go far though, he also has an electric bike that he uses to pop into town, I'd like to think when I'm his age I could still go riding off road and one of these mtb e-bikes could mean I can keep doing it, go a bit further and still come back with a grin, so it's a good thing. But, not for me now, I like the challenge of powering myself along, keeps me fit, anything else and I'd feel I'm cheating myself. I'm sure one day I'll be looking at these with interest.

ton - Member
chakaping....lets hope you never get ill eh

+1

In case they cheat and beat your Strava times 🙂

I have no issue with people with health reasons using them

However, i'd happily lay a bet that 85% of people who buy them, and charge past you on a climb in a trail centre, will be wealthy & unfit people too lazy to get fit to take advantage of our beloved sport

And, by the number of £5K+ superbikes you see being ridden badly at any trail centres already - this is a market which is only going to grow & grow

Yep - i'm a luddite and proud of it

Also, i rarely use trail centres, so it shouldn't cause me too much grief 🙂

andyrm - Member

All those sneering at e-bikes allowing people to ride "without getting fit" - who cares?!?!?!

I ride bikes despite the fitness aspects tbh. If e-bikes or even just a little e-assist was lighter, I'd be well up for it. Just like an uplift. As it is the drawbacks are too much.

I agree with BoltonJohn...health reasons are one thing but I'd also wager that most people who buy them will be lazy. My aunt's parents are a pair of fatties and they've bought electric bikes because it's easier to ride up hills. Whereas if they'd bought a normal bike they may have to put more effort in but they might also get a bit healthier.

If they do become popular, they'll get used by the ramblers that hate normal bikes let alone ones that can go faster...think of all the flower that the extra power will pull up. They'll be seen as the end of the countryside as we know it.

The chap selling then who said that it helped his mate get round Glentress isn't much of an endorsement. My other half isn't much of a cyclist and she managed fine! But he has got a pretty big interest in convincing people that they're a good idea!

I nearly did myself in last summer chasing a little old lady on a sit up and beg bike up one of the local hills. Oh how we laughed when I finally caught her just before the summit and noticed the battery pack. Well she laughed and I joined in once I'd finished coughing up a lung.

She wasn't disabled as far as I know, but so what. She was getting out and having fun on a lovely sunny day and if the electric assist allowed her to go where she wanted without worrying about the hills then fair play to her. Anyway, I dropped her on the descent so it all ended well 🙂

Actually, people will get really fit trying to peddle/push one with a dead battery..

chakaping....lets hope you never get ill eh

Erm... I've had six months off the MTB after an injury that I'm unlikely to fully recover from last year, but thanks for your concern.

And note I said...

If they were subject to a licensing system similar to disabled badges for cars then I think exceptions could be considered.

Doesn't that make more sense than an electric-powered free-for-all on the trails?

Anyone can ride them on the road as far as I'm concerned.

Doesn't that make more sense than an electric-powered free-for-all on the trails?

That'll end well.

There was a guy on one at this year's Real Ale Wobble.
He cruised past me on a climb, but then again so did many unassisted riders. He was having fun, I didn't get angry I didn't see anyone else get upset about it either.

The thing is he wasn't the fastest up the hill by a margin nor was he especially fast on the flat bits either.

Am I right in assuming that the main concern people have with electric assist mountain bikes is that it will open up mountain biking to a whole new (unfit) sector of society, filling up trails that won't be able to cope with the extra traffic?

I guess that could be an issue "down South" and might explain why I'm pretty relaxed about it as I rarely meet anybody on my usual trails.

If an electric bike brings more people to the sport I suspect it will have as many upsides as downsides. For a start those folk (even with the assist) will get fitter and may gravitate to (cheaper and lighter) unassisted bikes. Even if they don't is using a battery to help you get up a hill any more morally questionable than pushing up to ride down?

Personally I think everybody else (walkers, horse riders etc) should have to have a permit (signed by me) to ride my trails. But until that glorious day I'm happy to share them with all-comers.

I cant put my finger on it but theres something that worries me about Ebikes. I #think# the reason is that it takes a push bike closer to being a motorbike. I dont like the idea of this. I cant explain this rationally in words but it does bother me. Aside from medical reasons, I dont see the point. Its almost like inviting cars onto the bridleways. I know that probably makes no sense but it just feels wrong offroad.

I would love to know how many of you have actually ridden a ebike off road.

If anyone would actually like to try one of these I'd be happy to arrange it for them. I'm based in Edinburgh and as mentioned I sell them for a living. I promise I wont try and sell you one.

i have ridden one on road.
it was brilliant.
however i wont be allowed off road with it as i am fat and lazy.

I think ebikes are great. Would love to have one for my commute - much better/cheaper to run than a car and wouldn't be far off a car in total journey time for me.

Off road I can't see a major issue with it - I doubt many of them will see real trail off road use anyway.

Am I right in assuming that the main concern people have with electric assist mountain bikes is that it will open up mountain biking to a whole new (unfit) sector of society, filling up trails that won't be able to cope with the extra traffic?

I can only speak for myself, but I think it's mainly about respect for the environment from my POV.

These things are a fair bit heavier than normal bikes yeah? So even if they're not powerful enough to churn up the trails like motorbikes (or are they?), they're still likely to cause more erosion.

I severely doubt they're gonna sell in any significant numbers tbh.

My fear is chipped ebikes being ridden by chavs on the trails.
Luckily quad bikes don't currently fit but every **** wit on a ban will get one.

billytinkle - Member
I think ebikes are great. Would love to have one for my commute - much better/cheaper to run than a car and wouldn't be far off a car in total journey time for me.

i'm with you on this. my commute is relatively hilly 13miles, factor in a headwind, rain and a hard days graft it would be nice to have an easier ride home every day which would be comparable to driving without the hassle of parking in town. i can see why the strava chasers and elitists would feel begrudged as they may feel its cheating, but if an e bike meant i got home 15-20 minutes earlier each night and was less knackered to spend more time with my family frankly i couldn't give a sh1t what they think. i may even rob some KOMs too - bonus 8)

A lad I used to work and ride (10 years ago) with had LOTS of things wrong with him, had a disabled badge and everything, but used to come riding with us. Basically he used to (struggle to) walk up the trail with the rest of use sharing the pushing of his bike up the hills (as well as our own). It wasnt a mega heavy bike, a chameleon iirc and while we didnt mind, I can't help but think an ebike would have been perfect for that situation.

Plus I really want a go on one.

But, why on earth would you want to pollute your 'pure' biking time with a electrically assisted bike?

Think of it as a more energy-efficient form of uplift. If you don't do/want/get uplift, then fair enough. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool old school XC rider who's always preferred to earn his descents, and now I'm the wrong side of 40, I can see that the day will come when I will very much appreciate a little assistance to keep me carry on riding into my twilight years.

My Mrs is considering one, then she can pull the kiddy trailer & keep up with me. she is neither disabled or lazy, she just has different muscles in different areas (she's an awesome swimmer).

I could of course pull the kiddy trailer but where's the fun in that... well actually there is loads of fun in that but as a family unit we'd not travel as far.

For what it's worth I had the opportunity to try one off road a couple of years ago and it was great fun. It didn't make me want to buy one (yet).

I really don't see the harm and I don't really get why some people are opposed to them on the trails.

Are you also the same people who don't like being overtaken by someone with a more powerful car than yours?

I've just read that article and I'm in favour of them. If folks want them I say let them buy them and enjoy them. As for using trails I use, ok I can see a little conflict on tread and tearing the trail up a bit but it'll be no worse that a good rain pourdown and dog walkers in wellies or Neddies plodding thier merry way.

I'm ok with them.
😀

I would love to know how many of you have actually ridden a ebike off road

Incest, Maypole dancing and e-bikes.

At the moment they cost around 30 times more than the typical unfit non-cyclist considers reasonable for a bike, so the trails aren't going to be invaded by a long stretch. If someone really wants to use one to get off road and can afford it then that's fine with me - their money, their choice.

But in the medium to long term I can see a potential issue as battery & motor technology develops to the point where an electronic motocross bike becomes properly viable - that then throws up some issues with access, Rights of Way etc and how do you distinguish between an electric pushbike and an electric motorbike? The issue there would be the potential for larger more powerful bikes to be used on trails that aren't suitable, causing problems (damage and access) for the legitimate users.

boltonjon - Member

However, i'd happily lay a bet that 85% of people who buy them, and charge past you on a climb in a trail centre, will be wealthy & unfit people too lazy to get fit to take advantage of our beloved sport

And that bothers you because? They have an e-bike and they overtake you at a trail centre.......and then what? You don't lose. It's not a race. You just carry on riding your bike and they carry on riding theirs.

Only issue I could potentially see is whether they would cause more trail erosion than a normal bike & rider due to extra weight(probably not?) and/or torque output/characteristcs of an electric motor....?

On a wider scale away from mountain bikes, I think they are a great idea. People who perhaps live too far away to consider commuting by bike everyday (say 20 miles?) would now perhaps consider cycling into work & get a bit fitter than they otherwise would have done and it would be one more car off the road and less polluting and.....and......

Are you also the same people who don't like being overtaken by someone with a more powerful car than yours?

Which would be a great analogy if we were using the same method of propulsion 🙄

I've not got much against them providing the line between them and electric motos doesn't blur much, although I'd still prefer them to petrol ones on the same trails as me, if it's any consolation (an existant problem where I ride)

I think the biggest issue is that the legal status of machines like this hasn't really caught up with the technology. At the moment, they fit into the "as long as it only goes x mph and has y power" it's a normal bike segment. However, land access and rights of way is still trying to catch up with the growth and capability of normal human powered mountain bikes. I think it is safe to say, that had modern MTBs been around when the highways & byways laws were passed, bikes would probably have been classed as "foot powered" and been allowed on countryside footpaths, giving 3 separated segments, people powered, horse powered, and machine powered(motorbikes/cars etc).

But these new Ebikes don't really sit in any of those cateogories. They are really motorbikes, but look like MTBs, and ok, they have (easily bypassable) speed and power limits. Large lobbying groups, like the ramblers, already carry a lot of sway with governing bodies, and we really don't want them to have any more ammunition to use against bikes as shared access right inevitably get even more contentious.

Currently, those Ebikes are just too expensive i think for a massive uptake, but that will almost certainly change. Can you imagine the Dail Mail style headlines when the first walker is knocked down by an Ebike? (even if the fact it was an Ebike has absolutely nothing to do with the incident....) Watching a documentary on access issues in the Peaks showed that motorbikes are a massive bone of contention, even on byways, where the NIMBYS wanted sole access.

It's certainly a tricky issue, and we can't stop it now, these bikes exist, so we are going to have to deal with the issues as they arise!

Sometimes I ride to get fit and push myself. For that I use my xc bike and roadie. I also have a bigger 'enduro bike' which I gain absolutely no enjoyment going upjhill on, and which if somehow I could get to the top of the hill without peddling I would.

I can't really put my finger on what I don't like about the whole idea but I think it's the same as someone else said previously about it blurring the line between push bikes and motor bikes.
Where, and how do, you make a distinction between one of these all singing, all dancing E-bikes (which in my opinion look pretty gopping anyway)and an electric trials bike (which is infinitely nicer and looks like a trials bike).
So yes, I know it's all about power output and top speed but at the end of the day to me an E bike is still a motor cycle (it has a motor?)and, if you want to ride around on a motorcycle, then get a trials bike or an enduro bike and accept that you'll be subject (maybe) to more restrictions of access than you have on a push bike.

In the past I've been both a trials rider and enduro rider but the reasons that I now prefer riding bicycles are that I can ride places that I couldn't do on something with a engine, the satisfaction that I get from doing it under my own steam and because there's so much bad publicity around here about the damage done by enduro bikes, resulting in more even more access restrictions.

You'd think an old bastard like me in his 60's would be one of the people who'd most like the E-bike idea - poor old soul, now he won't have to sweat and struggle up some climb but if I haven't worked to get up there I can't see much satisfaction in the descent - which I enjoy as much as the next man.

When I can't ride a bicycle I'll get one of these -[img] [/img]

i'm 70/30 against them. i think that they detract from the sport and make a mockery of those that do put the effort in.

thepodge - Member

My Mrs is considering one, then she can pull the kiddy trailer & keep up with me. she is neither disabled or lazy, she just has different muscles in different areas (she's an awesome swimmer).

I could of course pull the kiddy trailer but where's the fun in that... well actually there is loads of fun in that but as a family unit we'd not travel as far.

i think i would question exactly how far you'd get when pulling a trailer.

And, by the number of £5K+ superbikes you see being ridden badly at any trail centres already - this is a market which is only going to grow & grow

i think this is the problem.

people have the money and they want the experience, but are unwilling to put in the effort.

i can understand the idea of someone a little older, or someone commuting a fair distance of buying one. the ones i don't get are those that are in their 30s, 40s or 50s and are racing along the trails. see this quite a bit here in Munich (kinda affluent). i usually make a point of drafting them and shouting "e-bike!" at them.

in summer mate and i were in the train heading south and there was a guy in there with an ebike. he was about mid 30s. we asked politely him if he had any health problems (he didn't) and what made him buy an e-bike. my mate made him feel small.

i know of one guy that has a 35km commute. he sold his car and bought a powerful e-bike which he now uses to get to work. he should, according to German law register it as a moped, but hasn't. his commute takes a little longer than it did with the car, but he says he has got fitter. he also rides MTB and i can in his situation see the point. we do, however, still take the piss.

perhaps if those who were riding them had flag or armband that, with some sort of coding, gave the reason for riding one....

piss yellow for the old
orange for the disabled/injured
black for the lazy bastards/too much cash

that might actually work here in Germany given the history. (even now blind people wear an armband)
[img] [/img]

^^funny because it says "eye witness"... who said ze germans have no humour?

chipped ebikes

Now we're talking!!! I'm reckoning Chris Porter would be an early tinkerer given his track record for tweaking everything to maximise speed.

Wonder how fast you could make one go without losing range/reliability?

End of the day it's all just fun on 2 wheels, live and let live.

For all the people that think anyone on an ebike should be scorned because they are too lazy to use a real bike....

Does that mean when I pass you at full pelt up a hill whilst you are stopping for a cake and to get your breath back that its ok for me to belittle you as you clearly aren't as fit as me, and as such you've not put the effort in and are clearly lazy?

If people are out having fun and its not causing you an issue then who gives a **** what they are riding.

my mate made him feel small.

your mate is clearly an asshat

I can see the appeal, but I'm against them on principal that they're motorbikes, and IMO there's a perfectly fit for purpouse set of rules for governing motorbikes.

Lump them together with mobility scooters and licence them both like mopeds. That is if either stood a chance of passing an IVA test.

I get mails form Leftfield Bikes, these guys import one of the lekky bikes we speak of here though I can't name it.. They have quite happily ridden it up Snowdonia and invariably back down again. So my question would be was it better uphill or down? You know, in that the weight/bulk of these bikes shirley would detract from the flickability we have with non lekky bikes.
Anywhoo's I'd deffo have a go on one and take it around my curcit just to see what it was like..

The MBR review the other month commented on that- basically saying it's has an effect similiar to turning climbs into flats so they're not just easier to get up, they're totally different to ride and much more fun. I hadn't considered that tbh.

Does that mean when I pass you at full pelt up a hill whilst you are stopping for a cake and to get your breath back that its ok for me to belittle you as you clearly aren't as fit as me, and as such you've not put the effort in and are clearly lazy

Nope, because at least i'm trying

^^ swoons 😉

Got overtaken by one on the trails, there very fast on hills and trails. I could see when I'm very old they would be a great way to still enjoy MTB

I had a quick look at the Scottish Outdoor Access code. The bit that grants me access to pretty much anywhere I would want to ride my bike seems to come under the right to responsible access for "more active pursuits like horse riding, cycling...".

There is also a specific exclusion for "any form of motorised recreation or passage (except by people with a disability using a vehicle or vessel adapted for their use)"

niche end of a niche market for those who couldn't give a monkeys how its propelled or are less fortunate than the i'm fitter/younger/more sneerful than you brigade - looks quite fun to me although illegal on roads in the uk with the e bike speed/power restriction

as someone who has ridden one offroad for a year or so, I can confirm that they are a bonus uphill, as in, they help you, but are not much faster.
they are however a inderance downhill. the added weight of the battery, motor and rider had me wondering if the bike was up to descending at speed. my haibike proved it was not up to it.. 😳

andyrm - Member

End of the day it's all just fun on 2 wheels, live and let live.

So is riding enduro bikes - plenty of people around here whinge about those though

Pawsy_Bear - Member
Got overtaken by one on the trails, there very fast on hills and trails. I could see when I'm very old they would be a great way to still enjoy MTB

More like enjoy off-road motorcycling surely?

Does that mean when I pass you at full pelt up a hill whilst you are stopping for a cake and to get your breath back that its ok for me to belittle you as you clearly aren't as fit as me, and as such you've not put the effort in and are clearly lazy?

If people are out having fun and its not causing you an issue then who gives a **** what they are riding.

my mate made him feel small.

your mate is clearly an asshat

yeah you can belittle me for eating cake, but i got to the cafe under my own steam , be that with pedalling or pushing.

and you are right, he is an asshat, but tbf, the guy didn't really have what any of us thought was a worthy response.

and notice the guy in the video having his friend help get the bike out of the car....
would like to see the portly people putting the bikes on top of their 5 series/A6...

thinking about it, would two of these bike exceed most of the bike carriers?

a standard haibike is completely nothing whatsoever like riding a motorbike.
not in the slightest at all ever ever ever.

and let's be fair.... the Hai Bike isn't that far away from this:

however, i think that the e-rockit is a great idea, especially for those living in or near town where average speeds are lower.

i saw one in Frankfurt back in September. looked good.

Quick question, are these bikes like motorbikes in that you twist a throttle/press a button/whatever and you go, without any input, or are they pedal assist where you still have to pedal, the motor justs gives a bit of extra encouragement?

haibike are pedal assist.
which you have to errr pedal just like a normal bike, and steer, brake and stuff, just like a normal bike....but a bit different.

So is riding enduro bikes - plenty of people around here whinge about those though

That they do!! 🙂

Thought so, in that case they are ace. Had a go on a trek hybrid last year, great fun on the road and I imagine would be supermegaepicfun off road. Imagine making those long dull fireroad climbs disappear!

As soon as one becomes available under say 35lbs, 150mm travel, I'll struggle to say no to one tbh.

Wow - judging by a review of the feedback, it seems that the STW massive are either:-

1) Very open minded to new technology
2) Very thoughtful about people with disabilities
3) Very much looking forward to making going uphill much easier

🙂

But, how many well off, middle class, overweight and unfit people are going to spend £5K to get 'into biking' (whilst never getting fit...)

the thing is, those that do like gettig muddy and will spend upwards of 5k on a bike and judging by some of the comments people will buy these bikes for trail riding.

as a form of transport to replace the car they are a good thing. on the trails less so, IMO....

They may do, but moving a bike that heavy about all the time will be as tiring as pedalling a 26lb 5k non-leccy bike I reckon. And far less fun apart from the odd braaaaarp moment, which will be so quiet that it won't be much fun either )