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My current bike is the first bike I've had with a dropper and the other day I was thinking 'wow, there is no way that saddle is getting in my way ever'. I've only got a 120mm post, and I note they go up to double that travel.
I'm just curious as to what necessitates a longer post. Is it bike geo? Riding style? Terrain?
Personal preference I guess.
first bike I’ve had with a dropper
You won’t ever go back to less than you have. If you have multiple bikes this gets expensive.
I’ll happily ride an appropriate bike without one (eg, xc rigid) but if the seat does go down, then it had better go down to the amount I’m used to or more, otherwise I’ll hit it (with my testicles).
I think you subconsciously adapt to use what you have.
Look at the saddle height that dhers and bmxers use. That's the height you want for maximum manoeuvrability
dhers and bmxers use.
That is a broad range though. BMXers look like they have them pretty much at knee height (right out the way) whereas DHers have them much higher (possibly to use the thigh on the saddle)
Although with the big travel bikes it’s worth remembering that looks (side on photo of a bike with nobody on it) can be deceiving.
It's not. In fact I reckon 125mm is ideal. Did I mention I may be just about to list my Fox Transfer in the for sale section 🙂
It's about choice, just because you can drop your post 200mm doesn't mean you have to. But having the option is nice
I have one of the first Rock Shox reverb droppers and never have it all the way down as I don’t feel like i get the control of the bike with it slammed to the bottom. I used to ride street and park BMX and never had my saddle really low, just above knee height seems plenty low enough. Whenever I put my reverb at its lowest it feels wrong and I pop it back up a bit.
We adapt to them over time too I think. I also had an early reverb bought 10 years back and for a few years didn't want more, and often didn't drop it all the way because I liked a thigh against it sometimes. Somewhere along the way I got to thinking there were a few places I ride where I'd really like more. Now on 160 & 170 droppers and I just drop them all the way. 170 is about the max I can fit in a FS.
I think there's some geometry in it too though. Old bike felt to me like it needed more drop. Would slacker seat tube do this? Or was the BB a bit high? New ones maybe less so.
On DH bike, my saddle sits a little higher simply because much lower it'd foul the wheel. But then I'm short.
It's a diminishing returns thing. I started out with a 3" GravityDropper when they first came out. That made a huge difference. Then I got the 4" version, which made it much easier to not smack my nuts on the back of the saddle on rough stuff. Then I got a 5" Reverb, which felt perfect. I couldn't really imagine needing any more. Then I got a frame that needed a longer seatpost, so I got a 6" BrandX. At first I thought that was too much, but after using it for a bit, it does give more room to move around on rough descents. I have a 4" BrandX on an old hardtail with a 27.2 mm post. That's ok, but it's annoying going from 6" drop back to 4", it makes you realize how much more work you have to put in moving around the saddle.
It also depends on how long your legs are. I have long limbs for my height, I’ve got riding mates who are taller but have their saddle 2-3” lower when pedalling, so I need 2-3” more dropper post drop to get similar stability.
I’ve had 100, 125, 150, 170 and now both bikes are on 185mm dropper posts.
As far as I can tell you basically want to be able to drop the saddle to the top of the seat tube. If you have long legs and alot of post showing you'll need more drop, whilst for those of us with stumpy limbs, you may not need as much.
I couldn't fit a 150mm on my bike as my legs are too short, 125 is perfect. If I had much longer legs I'd want more.
Some people (like me) want the seat just out of the way, so as long as possible is best. Others don't want it so far away, for whatever reason- it just doesn't bother them, or they actually like having the saddle there, like they use it for control when riding. Really is a matter of taste.
I went from a 100mm gravity dropper (nice to have but still really felt very "in the way" for harder riding, I'd often drop it in the frame too and kept the QR but still loved it for uppy downy riding, local trails etc) then got one of the first 150mm droppers which felt like enough day to day but I'd still sometimes drop for really harsh stuff (Kinochleven enduros and the like). 170mm was the first time it didn't feel like I was compromising in order to have the drop, and that was really a big deal- 20mm shouldn't feel like a lot but I guess it does when it takees you from "not quite enough" to "enough". But your "enough" could be elsewhere. I guess the big thing there is, I always knew I wasn't happy with the amount on hand unlike you.
It’s about choice, just because you can drop your post 200mm doesn’t mean you have to. But having the option is nice
This.
On my new Scandal I can fit a 200mm dropper, so I've put in a 200mm dropper - why would I put in less?
Because modern bikes are long, low and slack with short seat tubes so most riders will have a reasonable amount of seatpost sticking out the frame.
If you are going to have 220mm of seatpost sticking out the frame, you may as well be able to move 200mm of it out the way, after all it will only be £30 ish more than just being able to move 125mm out the way.
I've never used the seat to control the bike like some do, so moar is better. 180mm was as much as my frame could take, so went with that.
On my new Scandal I can fit a 200mm dropper, so I’ve put in a 200mm dropper – why would I put in less?
I'm guessing here as I don't have a long one (oh er) but would play and flex and then ultimately longevity become factor. A certain amount of play is inevitably at the interface between the post and the shaft. The longer the amount of exposed shaft the more that play is amplified. Also the more leverage on the interface should the saddle get a knock.
No idea if that becomes an issue in real life.
For me one of the best bits about a dropper is the first inch. With a dickie knee/hip I have to ride a proper road like saddle height as much as possible. Being able to drop it just a smidge for pedally but nadgery bits makes a world of difference. Without the dropper I'd probably have to run a slightly lower saddle and suffer a little more. How the hardtail xc boys with non-dropper posts do it I'll never fathlom.
It also means frame manufacturers can make seat tubes shorter so a specific size can be adapted to fit a wider range of people.
At 6'5" I hated having to choose an XL frame which would be 21" minimum, I would always want the saddle lower for DH riding. Though now I do fear some frames might not have a long enough seat tube...
6'5" here
can fit a 210mm one up in the frame, so have fitted a 210mm one up.
this has infinite adjustment, but I only use 2 (99% of the time at least)
100% up in pedalling position
100% down in descending position.
Why would you not want the saddle as far out of the way as possible when you arent using it I dont know 😉
The only exception I very occasionally use is bumpy technical climbing with occasional easy bits when I want the saddle out of the way when out of the saddle trying to get over stuff, but to sit on the saddle for a bit on bits and its too stop/start to want to faff with the seatpost too much, then I might drop it a 'bit'
More drop isn't necessarily better. The right amount of travel is best. If you're hitting the A-line at Whistler and doing tail whips trying to lay the bike on its side then you're going to need more drop than if you're mooching around the local trail downhill trails. I'm more of the latter and have a 120mm dropper and its perfectly adequate. Occasionally I'll feel the saddle on my inner thigh and think I could do with more drop, but being a bit of a short arse and thanks to the kinked seat tube on my bike I'd struggle to get a longer drop post far enough down the seat tube of the bike.
I think it depends on the terrain you ride to some extent. On downhill, but flowy terrain I might want the saddle down a bit, but not that far so I can use my thigh on it when cornering, or sit on it for sections. On properly gnarly terrain, I just want it as out of the way as possible.
Bike geometry also might have something to do with it. I find on a modern long slack bike I need to get lower and move my weight around more to ride it properly.
As others have said, weight aside as longer posts are heavier, why not have more? I've gone from just 80mm drop on my Crank Brothers Joplin (thank god they're a thing of the past!) through to 125mm and 150mm Reverbs and now a 180mm One Up post and I've never gone "damn the saddles too low now". What I have done is ridden bikes with shorter droppers than I had at the time and thought they were higher than I'd like!
Why would you not want the saddle as far out of the way as possible when you arent using it I dont know
But on my bike with 100m dropper it isn't in the way at all now. So why would I want it further out of the way when it's not in the way?
It probably has something to do with geometry. My bikes aren't long, low or slack. To get my arse near to where the saddle is without actually sitting on it I'd have to be crouching in a very unnatural and uncomfortable position.
I think a lot of it is the sort of riding you do. I find it good to drop the saddle an inch or so on rooty XC sections. If I was racing XC, I'd probably want a lightweight dropper with 2" or 3" drop. For really steep, rough descents, getting that saddle as low as possible really helps. I find 6" drop is ok for me, but you don't have to drop it all the way so it's better to have too much than not enough.
If I'm doing an uplift day I'll drop my 150mm dropper in the frame so it's as low as possible, which probably equates to around 250mm drop from the pedalling position on my bike. For riding steep stuff in the tweed valley I want the saddle out of the way thanks.
I've got a 200mm dropper waiting to go onto a new frame at some point.
More = better. You don't have to drop it all the way anyway.
As already said above, the different lengths of dropper are really to accommodate different heights* of rider. If you are over 6 feet tall a 100 or 120 dropper will go from high to slightly less high but still in the way, whereas a 170+ will go from pedaling height to pretty much out the way. 200+ (which I have now at 6'1") goes from ideal pedaling height to completely out the way.
Obviously someone will now tell me that tall pro xc riders use 80 - 100mm droppers. That is looking for marginal gains while not adding extra weight which is vital in the professional ranks but largely irrelevant to everyone else.
*Leg length is probably more accurate a description.
Must admit I went from 125mm to 150mm and don't really notice a difference. If I was buying another I'd just get the best deal on anything 125mm and above.
I currently have 125mm of drop, on some steep trails I find I get snagged on the saddle.
New bike is coming with a 150mm dropper, if I have room I'll look at a longer one.
Another reason that more travel is good, it means that my wife can fit on my bike and still drop the saddle a bit from her pedalling position! Now that my hardtail has a WeeRide toddler seat on it, that's particularly useful.
I currently have 125mm of drop, on some steep trails I find I get snagged on the saddle.
Put some ice cubes down the front of your shorts. That giant stallion **** will shrivel up.
I have 200mm, but haven't finished the build to use it in anger yet.
Reason for super length is that I am 198cm tall and have historically run masses of seat post (due to frames being too small)
(
this is a pic of my XXL tourer bike, with a fair amount of seat post out the top of the 64cm frame)
edit: dropper post is going in a mountain bike, not the road going bike, it was only for illustration of how much seat pin I need.
Currently riding 150 on my full sus (and 125 on my hardtail). Theres definitely a lot of benefit from more than 125 and I'm changing the hardtail to a 170.
I've ridden a bike with a 200mm OneUp and found that too much - it's kind of awkward to actually drop that much in a hurry (sort of threw me off balance sometimes) but also I found it started to get in the way in a different way to it being too high (and I lost some of the ability to control the bike with the saddle. Maybe you get used to it.
I don't really know why BMXers / DJers don't have seats really low. It might be something about leaning the bike into your knee but I suspect it's mostly about fashion. Trials riders have been less concerned about fashion so most (competition) trials bikes have no seat and an extremely low top tube. It gets it out of the way so you can get more 'tuck' when you're doing big hops. Bigger range of possible movement = bigger moves. I suppose that's less relevant for MTB since most people aren't trying 1m+ bunny hops but allowing you to move on the bike more is almost always a good thing IMHO. Obviously it depends if you're bimbling along a flat path vs trying to break DH KOMs vs Freeride etc.
I'm in the camp of more seatpost travel is better.
it’s kind of awkward to actually drop that much in a hurry (sort of threw me off balance sometimes)
Interesting. Maybe there's a sweet spot. For me the sweet spot is definitely >170mm though.
Northwind's law holds true for me: Seatpost travel must exceed suspension travel.
@thols2 do you live in the US? Ive never heard anyone describe a dropper in inches before.
do you live in the US?
For me it's just confidence, knowing that saddle isn't going to catch me lets me be a bit more aggressive, have had old 100/125 posts where i have caught the saddle trying to get back forward and it definitely causes a loss of confidence!
On my ebike it's annoying as the pivot means i can only get a 125mm post in, which means i have to really think about it being there to get lower, or be further back, which isn't a good thing, on the other bike i have 180 and never have to think about the saddle when it's down.
And let's not forget that the marketing department of Dropper Seatposts Inc have targets to hit, and how do you make someone who's already got a dropper seatpost buy a new one, or make them buy your seatpost rather than a competitors? By making your seatpost 15% More Betterer with ActiveDropPlus5000 Technology, and then explaining to cycling magazines (which may or may not involve inviting them to an all-expenses paid piss-up in Utah) why it's essential 😉
how do you make someone who’s already got a dropper seatpost buy a new one
Put a circlip in the bottom that magically just vanishes into thin air and renders the post useless.
dc1988
Free MemberIt also means frame manufacturers can make seat tubes shorter so a specific size can be adapted to fit a wider range of people.
Well, does it though? There's nothing a dropper post does there that a long normal post couldn't do surely? There's always been manufacturers who make compact seatposts/front triangles and htere's always been manufacturers that like really long seat tubes- on my medium Hemlock I had a 410mm nondropper post, frinstance. And even now some (stupid, I might say incompetent) bike designers still insist on putting long seat masts on their bikes that limit dropper use.
I think probably dropper posts have made more people want a short seattube/small front triangle but it's definitely not something that relies on it
Superficial
Free MemberNorthwind’s law holds true for me: Seatpost travel must exceed suspension travel.
Of all the various Northwind's Laws, that's probably the best.
Cause im 6'4", and even on a 21" Five29, ive got 7cm of non droppy post sticking out before i get to the droppy bit. I did used to get hung up on the saddle at max drop on the steep stuff.
Just got a 170mm dropper, which leaves 1cm of adjustment, and it looks loads better.
becasue having any exposed post under the collar looks rubbish
but, when i drop my seat i push it all the way down.. have as 120? on my hardtail and 170? on the full sus, only a short ass 5ft 8.. and i can find the shorter post can still be in the way
occasionally i will drop an inch just because its rough or im on a pedally section that means i'll be up down up down otherwise
Thanks for the replies everyone. I hadn’t even considered tall people, and it seems that’s a big factor.
I think long droppers are really just a byproduct of the 'Low' bit of LLS now, i.e. newer frames are coming with more standover and relatively shorter seat tubes giving the room for 200mm+ of dropper so the products have been adapted to match...
FWIW I'm fine with a 100mm dropper, slammed to the bottom and f it's Travel it's far enough out of the way to let me move, but he saddle can still be nudged with a knee if needed. I doubt 200mm would benefit me, but it wouldn't be a problem either...
becasue having any exposed post under the collar looks rubbish
So, do you buy a custom frame to make sure the seatpost and frame are the exact match, or adjust crank length and saddle stack to make sure your bike meets the fashion police standards? Christ, you'd have a heart attack if you saw my bikes. Ugly brutes with dropper posts that aren't matched to the frame size and zip ties to stop the cables flapping around.
stop the cables flapping around.
Cables? How quaint. 😉