[Closed] Drop your tyre pressure. We're destroying the Cairngorm Plateau, apparently

Has anyone seen that [b]MASSIVE ****** SKI RESORT ON THE SIDE OF THE BLOODY MOUNTAIN?
[/b]
Just wondering...

The scottish climbing fraternity is not exactly well known for its tolerant and liberal attitudes.

edit: Which is not to say that it's much better south of the border.

Some interesting logic and open bias against bikers.
Not to mention a lack of scientific understanding.
The tyre pressure argument being rather misunderstood. Lower tyre pressure = larger tyre contact patch on the ground and less pressure from the tyre on the ground surely?

phat bikes FTW 🙂

I like a good old-fashioned "access for no-one except us" argument. Haven't seen one from climbers before, though, that's new to me.

You'll see my contributions under my old STW forum name. When I can be bothered I enjoy winding up some of the silly old buggers. I've come across a lot of their ilk while out in the mountains; thoroughly selfish and conceited in their righteousness. I expect many are retired teachers.

rigid rider or similar?

Its just a daft argument based upon simple prejudice.

If the Cairngorm plateau does need protected then fair enough, but the best way to protect is to reduce usage be all users not just pick on one very small group whose method of enjoying the hills you disagree with.

Complete nonsense. A certain amount of erosion is natural, wind, rain, animals etc. I cant see bikes causing an issue unless there are hundreds of them and it is very wet.

Around me, the most damage to trails is done by horses, second is 4 x 4's.

So the good folk STW are now being played by a troll on another forum?
I'm sure the guy on ukclimbing is creaming himself with all this attention.

So the good folk STW are now being played by a troll on another forum?

So the good folk STW are now being played by a troll on another forum?

Don't worry, I'm sure there's still space here for your contributions. 🙂

He(?) has seen [b]some[/b] bikers around the summit of Cairngorm and thinks that if it gets popular then there'll be increased erosion. Some of the counter-arguments point out the very low numbers of bikers that make the effort to get up there.

It would appear unlikely that the current infrastructure, the funicular, would ever be opened up to take bikers up to the plateau. I believe that they don't take skiers up there, or at least allow them to ski from the top station.

Seems like someone has got a bee in his bonnet and is letting off steam while refusing to let facts, such as they are, get in the way.

I believe that they don't take skiers up there, or at least allow them to ski from the top station.

Erm, not quite, they wont take climbers up, the train takes skiers to the top.

Erm, not quite, they wont take climbers up, the train takes skiers to the top.

Ah, stand corrected, victimising wrong subcategory of outdoor users 😯

I blame the reindeer that hang out on Caingorm

The damage to the track is proportional to the 4th power of the pressure on it. Tyre at 35psi, walker at 150 lbs and 30sq inch sole give 35/5 to power 4, equals over 2000 times damage,

I liked this comment! 2000 times the damage!? This part of Scotland must look like what Hiroshima did in 1945 after a nice sunny day!

Is it just 'cos I'm English? 😯 I've never even been to the Cairngorms. However, using his logic I've seen Scots people on the South & North Downs, there's erosion on the Downs.
Ergo we should ban all Scots people south of the border.

t would appear unlikely that the current infrastructure, the funicular, would ever be opened up to take bikers up to the plateau.

[url= http://www.cairngormmountain.org/mountain-biking-2/ ]It would appear that they do[/url] if only on a limited basis.

It would appear that they do if only on a limited basis

It appears that the riders are 'guided' so can't escape and run amok on the Cairngorm plateau!

If the Cairngorm plateau does need protected then fair enough, but the best way to protect is to reduce usage be all users not just pick on one very small group whose method of enjoying the hills you disagree with.

^^ This

What's he got to say about fatbikes?

To use the funicular to bike the hill you must be guided and use the bikes they provide. No thanks.

Meh. What's all the fuss about?

[img] [/img]

Is 10psi low enough?

Erosion.

So how are HILLS, mountains etc etc formed then? What did Glaciers do and what is happening all the time with plates moving, land levels raises/dropping?!

I think we all know erosion exists as force of nature. Given that what is your point Hora?

Ps they were mainly caused by tectonic plate movement but shaped , ins some areas, by erosion.
The Himalayas are not caused by erosion

Scotsroutes was that smooth before you damaged it?

Ah but it's ukclimbing and no matter what frothing, big hitter one eyed rant you might see here it is a mere amateur non comment compared to them. I was once hounded for weeks because I said it seemed reasonable for my aged parents to have a 4x4 to take horse feed to a horse miles from their house in a field away from the road. Arses the lot of them.

I think we all know erosion exists as force of nature. Given that what is your point Hora?

Its big, its allover and its constant. People saying a subset of a hobby is causing it (or implying) that they are the greatest eroders is erroneous.

That's an OP we'd be proud of.

I saw some bikers riding off the west side of the summit yesterday towards point 1141m and the Cas headwall. If this becomes commonplace (which I suspect it will)

Whataboutery, a hypothetical conclusion he admits he's just made up.

the rate of erosion will rise exponentially

The rate of erosion will rise [i]proportionally.[/i]

What next, quad bike tours to Ben Macdui?

And a slippery slope fallacy for the hat trick. Good troll.

eroders is erroneous

Junkyard - lazarus
Scotsroutes was that smooth before you damaged it?

"Atmosphere of disapproval"

And I thought there were some sanctimonious pricks on here.

Well if it's a troll I've been trolled - I think that might be my first post on there, but I already had a login as you need one to look at the route descriptions and pics.

"Atmosphere of disapproval

So what's an atmosphere of disapproval anyhow - just normal rambler silent grumpiness?

And I thought there were some sanctimonious pricks on here.

It'd be bad enough but that came from one of the best known and most respected voices in scottish mountaineering.

Oh man, the comments on tyres psi relating to 'pressure on the ground' is just painful to read. 🙄

"an atmosphere of disapproval"

[img] [/img]

What have you got against teachers globalti?

There's something slightly ironic in being critical of the point of view of others, and then saying you suspect they're retired teachers.

If you want to be open minded it's not the best way to go about it.

I'm not a teacher, by the way, but some of my best friends are teachers and climbers and mountain bikers as well.

Fancy that!

Complete with ironic outrage from people who hack their way up vegetated crags with sharp axes and some interesting 'made-up on the spot' science

To be fair most of the voices on that thread agree with cyclists right to access the plateau and some have come round to the idea after seeing the lack of evidence. Apart from one or two easily spotted and discredited muppets it's a pretty reasonable thread.

It'd be bad enough but that came from one of the best known and most respected voices in scottish mountaineering

Andy Nisbet is a genuine national treasure. However, just like everyone else he has his own biases and gaps in knowledge.

It would appear that they do if only on a limited basis

It appears that the riders are 'guided' so can't escape and run amok on the Cairngorm plateau!

which would tend to concentrate the riders in one place, surely?

The idea is that they are concentrated in a sacrificial area (Coire Cas) which is already so screwed up that a few more bike tracks wont make any difference.

"an area of fairly level high ground"

why would a climber give a shit about it?

That makes sense, now you've explained it.

The Cairngorm Plateau is an area of unique sub-artic flora and easily damaged. However, (and I must say my opinion on this has changed considerably over the last few years)the 10ft wide paths on the plateau are caused by walkers and a mtb tyre will actually leave less of a mark on the ground because constant pressure is applied rather than the series of impacts caused by boots (I run my tyres at 18psi anyway).
I will get off and push if the ground is boggy or on a descent where I would lock the back wheel on eroded gravely ground (eg Ben Avon down to the Sneck).
Andy Nisbet has done at least 3 rounds of Munros and can probably count the days he's not been up a mountain each year on the fingers of one hand! I guess every interest group believes others are the problem, not themselves.
PS Andy is a legend tho!