Hi RichPenny....No probs, I didn't take you comments as a critisism or take any offence to them. Any comment's, ideas to make Mtb better and safer for all are most welcome 😉 Happy Mtb'ing.
How long to wait for pics of the pretty nurse?
already posted 🙂
about the 4th post: [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/drama-near-hayfield-today?replies=83 ]http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/drama-near-hayfield-today?replies=83[/url]
Well done to the folks for helping this guy out. Keeping him warm and in good spirits is a really valuable thing to do - potentially stop him going in to shock/passing out etc. Would like to think folk would help me out like that if I needed it.
If I'm to offer some constructive critisism though - first rule of outdoor first aid: assess the whole scene and try to make it safe for everyone, try to make sure nothing further could happen to make the situation worse by getting more injuries. Fact that you had a rider colliding with you suggests maybe you could have done a bit more along those lines to prevent it happening. Could someone have been standing further up slowing riders down? Could someone have been standing in a position to protect the casualty and the first aiders? Could you have tried to get the rider to try walking away from the course a bit?
Wasn't there, so I don't know, but politely suggesting you reflect on that and see if there was anything more you could have done. It's just as important, if not more important than actually giving out the first aid for hopefully obvious reasons.
lecture over.
Could someone have been standing further up slowing riders down?
yes, good point, though in fact all the riders had 100m clear view of the partial obstruction. In future I would post someone to warn them too.
Could you have tried to get the rider to try walking away from the course a bit?
this section is tightly fenced, and from where I was sitting, shielding Chris, I couldn't see the gate only 50m away. Our first aider thought it better not to move him.
I had similar looking injury - turned out to be grade 5 ligament damage to my ac joint - surgery and 9 weeks with my arm strapped to my side.
Hope he gets back on bike soon
Well done to those who looked afte the rider. Been in that kind of situation and it's not nice.
It's worth pointing out that the Air Ambulance is a charity: it is not funded or supported by the government in any way, and relies entirely on donations. Chuck a couple of quid in the tin next time you see one.
It's worth pointing out that the Air Ambulance is a charity
I didn't know that! The flashes on their shoulders said "West Midlands Ambulance Service"
this from Kinder Mountain Rescue:
"Chris sent me a copy of your e-mail and I thought I would give you a bit of background into how things work. When there is an accident there will sometimes be multiple calls to the emergency services, often to both the Police (who take the initial call for Mountain Rescue(MR)) and to the ambulance service - this sometimes leads to a joint response before all the agencies realise they are working on the same task, a lot can be happening in the first 10-15mins.
Because there have been many occasions when an air ambulance has been unable to complete the task on its own (weather, mechanical failure, unable to land or land close enough) it is now standard protocol in our area for a mountain rescue team to be called as well. Even if we are not needed to assist with the casualty we may help other members of the group (sometimes the casualty has the navigational skills for the group) as the air ambulance can only take two people. On this job I received a message to say an air ambulance had also been sent, but it does not change our response.
The following is a link to our callouts section of our website - Callout 20 is an example of where the air ambulance could not land near the casualty who had to be taken down one side of a gully and back up the other side to the helicopter. During this September we have had five callouts so far and the month isn't over yet.
http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/?cat=3
At the moment we don't have the space to keep our Landrovers in our base, and picking them up adds time to our response. We are about to undertake major works so rectify this at a cost of £40,000 - all donations/publicity for this cause would be welcome.
And finally, thank you for taking the time to stop and look after Chris."
It wasn't a race BTW.
It wasn't a race BTW.
ah, that would explain why they all looked so cheerful...
simonfbarnes - MemberI didn't know that! The flashes on their shoulders said "West Midlands Ambulance Service"
http://www.wmas.nhs.uk/our_services/types_of_services/air_ambulance.aspx
Within West Midlands Ambulance Service region, 2 air ambulance charities operate to serve the community. Further details are provided below or click the links to find out more.
http://www.airambulanceassociation.co.uk/
According to that site I may be wrong about Scotland - as in so many other small but important ways, they have it right and we have it wrong
Chris sits 2 desks away from me at work! Tried calling his mobile and it goes to answer phone..... will post an update when I get hold of him.
Knowing chris - he would be gutted if the pics didn't get posted on STW!!
Col.
Tried calling his mobile and it goes to answer phone..... will post an update when I get hold of him.
I told him my mobile number is on the front page of [url= http://www.bogtrotters.org ]www.bogtrotters.org[/url], but I figured he'd probably have other things on his plate for a day or two.
As for the charities involved, it seems to me charmingly British the way they maintain their indepenance from government - with good reason I feel - but that behooves all of us who depend on their unstinting volunteerism to support them!
feenster I was the first aider at the scene and did indeed do a risk assessment. As the casualty was OFF the TWO meter wide track I thought it best not to move him other than make him as comfortable as possible. Every move he made I was supporting him and constantly asking him if he felt OK. The scene of the crash was on a straight track as Simon has already noted so easily visible from distance.
Sorry if I failed to recognize the threat from a numpty throwing himself at us when he should have been watching where he was going.
Finally whether this is or is not the time or place I am starting to get pretty pissed off about Julia getting the blame for said numpty's lack of control.
Oh and forgot to add I put my change from a tenner in the Kinder MRT box in Hayfield chippy when I went for my tea.
the rest of the ride pics here:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/26sep/DSC_0246_.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/26sep/DSC_0246_.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Well done for helping the injured rider. Sounds like he was lucky to have you guys around.
Sounds like he was lucky to have you guys around
I'm sure one or more of the challenge riders would have stopped to help him out if we hadn't been there - but we didn't face the pressure to complete/compete that they did
When was that section of track fenced? I thought it used to be open but havent been over for jacobs for about 5 years.
Sounds like they were lucky to have you guys around and even luckier not to have hit the barbed wire. Bad form to use it on a bridleway.
Was it the bog trotters who took over the Edale Station Cafe (Penny Pot) at lunch time on Sat?
When was that section of track fenced? I thought it used to be open but havent been over for jacobs for about 5 years.
about 3 years ago...
Sounds like they were lucky to have you guys around and even luckier not to have hit the barbed wire. Bad form to use it on a bridleway.
only the top strand was barbed, and isn't that quite normal ?
Was it the bog trotters who took over the Edale Station Cafe (Penny Pot) at lunch time on Sat?
no, we ate at Edale & Hollins Crosses 🙂
Unless the field is to contain cattle normally the guidance is no barbed wire in open country or adjacent to bridleways - the latter because of potential harm to horses.
Close fencing of tracks is one of my pet hates.
Close fencing of tracks is one of my pet hates.
I can see what you mean but the problem was both walkers and cyclists were not using the track, they were walking up the field to the side of the track as it was easier going than the rocky track. You of all people know what this leads to 😉
but the problem was both walkers and cyclists were not using the track, they were walking up the field to the side of the track as it was easier going than the rocky track.
prior to the erection of the fence, most of us would ride up the grass, but there was no obvious path so we'd wander randomly causing no visible damage. On the day I decided to open the gate and ride in the field due to the stream of intent riders coming the other way.
However, I am sorry to say, that I find it most distasteful that you feel the need to post photos of this guys predicament on a forum.
That's the funniest thing I've read today.
this from one of our party:
"In my limited experience of racing the rules generally say to slow for any dangers or obstructions that should arise and stop for any injured riders this person did not do so and crashed while concentrating on us rather than the track. I then appointed myself to slow people down and had numerous people back chat and some just ignored me although on the whole they were glad we helped them and would have done the same even for those that were back chatting."
I realise now our best option would have been to open the gate above the crash site and send the riders down the field.
Chris phoned me this morning....
Doc has confirmed nothing broken, but he has a very badly dislocated shoulder. It's still dislocated, Chris is awaiting a visit to the surgeons knife at the QMC in Nottingham to pop it back in and stitch things back together (a lot of ligament / tendon / other damage apparently) - I think he has an appointment tomorrow morning...
Still in a lot of pain (no more morphine!!), and very grateful to all who helped him!
Col.
Thanks for the update Col, I hope he mends fast and is out on his bike enjoying himself as soon as.
Outstanding job for SFB and all that stopped to help the guy, whatever the detractors say!
We have a lot of crashes at our place normally tallying 3 ambulances per weekend, it stuns me the amount of riders that see someone elses misfortune as a blight on their day as they had to slow down to get past or even God forbid that a section of trail be closed due to an accident! Equally shocking is the amount who offer no help whatsoever.
Finally whether this is or is not the time or place I am starting to get pretty pissed off about Julia getting the blame for said numpty's lack of control.
Hope you didn't think that's what I was doing, cos I wasn't. Just saying have a think, was there anything more you could have done to stop that numpty getting the chance to ride into you?
Reflecting on what did and didn't go well during an incident is something even pros do.
Having a nobber ride into you obviously wasn't good, you could have had more injuries to deal with, you could have been injured. All I'm saying is if you were in that situation again, is there anything you could do to stop it happening?
I am a Kinder MR member, and was en route to the shout form a shopping trip with small boys. Stood down just before I got home. We get called out in different ways - if you call Police mountain resue then you get through to the CID at Ripley Police HQ. They then contact MR duty controllers who then dispatch teams, they may aslo call for helicopter support (but this is usually left to the teams to sort out). If you call for an mbulance EMAS will dispatch an ambulance. This could be a helimed (East Midlands, South Yorks, Cheshire or even GM could attend; in some cases they might send a paramedic or even a land ambulance. If they know that the location is offroad they will contact MR too.
Even if a helicopter is on its way we still get called; the helimed might get diverted to a more serious incident. The weather might come in, they might not be able to land nearby. Think of it as belt and braces. If the helimed couldn't get in, then they had to call us out this could mean another hour on the hillside. Hence the dual callout.
Hope all works out - from the pics I'd say dislocated shoulder. Ouch.
Good job I wasn't there as I'd have selflessly volunteerd to ride the bike down hill. Last time I did that I nearly came a cropper forgetting that my brakes are on Eyropean style rather than British. (It is so I don't get confused - my road bike cable routing is dreadful if laced up British style).
Here's my nursey pic used to decorate the callout list: [url= http://http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/ ]http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/[/url] - a worthy cause for donations 🙂
What I've learned is that in such a situation, if there's not much room on the track and moving the patient contraindicated:
1) place the rest of the party uphill to deflect oncoming riders
2) if there's an alternative route to divert them onto - there was in this case though it wasn't visible from where we were. There were plenty of us so some that weren't acting as windbreaks could have been delegated.
Fixed link: [url= http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/ ]http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/[/url]
Check out the new probationer a couple of posts down....beats the nurse imo.
Check out the new probationer a couple of posts down....beats the nurse imo.
If you've got pics of that probationer beating the nurse, I'll donate.
feenster not for one minute are my remarks aimed at you blaming us for the crash, it was an earlier poster. Agree we could have used someone up the hill to get riders/racers to slow down.
Bigcol, any chance you could email me Chris' surname I would like to contact him on facebook when he's better. Address in my profile.
beats the nurse imo.
comparisons are invidious! Both are nice 🙂
[url= http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Probationer-Training-Sept-09-007-Small1.JP G" target="_blank">http://kinderdownfall.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Probationer-Training-Sept-09-007-Small1.JP G"/> [/img][/url]
Chris here - "the faller".
I can eventually join in the forum and express my gratitude to the heros of hayfield, albeit it a one handed, heavily sedated stylee, but here goes....
Firstly thank you to the cool headed, professional way that graham, julia, paul,JP, ben, simon et al reacted and managed the situation. I can't describe how grateful i was at the time to have you guys looking after me, you made an otherwise dire situation a calm, controlled experience that i shall not forget. thank you very much for the help, you are a shining example of mountain camaraderie. i look forward to meeting up in future a getting the rounds in.
Thanks also to the guys from the east midlands air ambulance service. A1 experience and having learnt that this is entirely charity funded I will certainly be fundraising in the near future. Did wander if the morphine was playing tricks on my head when Sonia (the hot paramedic) leant over and asked how she could make me more comfortable:)
Been to QMC today to see the shoulder specialist, long story short i have a grade 5 separation of the AC joint. booked in for reconstructive surgery (bolts, screws and elastic bands) on tuesday next week. Currently moved back into the parents and learning to cope with daytime tv and an arm held on by ligaments only - you can guess which is more nauseating.
Thanks to Kinder MR for taking care of my bike, you will all be comforted to hear she is doing well and expected to make a full recovery long before I do.
Last thanks you to BigCol (previous thread) for ensuring everyone at royces is taking the p!ss out of my situation.
Oh...the "rubber-necking nobber".... these things happen, we'll laugh at it soon enough!
Thank you all.
Cheers Chris, but really we were happy to help! Sorry you banged yourself up so effectively without even the excuse of heroic terrain 🙁
hey big man Graham here just glad to help a fellow MTBer
'Oh...the "rubber-necking nobber".... these things happen, we'll laugh at it soon enough!' fair brought a smile to my face
So you had Julia rummaging around your crotch for you phone because you claim you couldn't find it LOL ;-))) and then you had Sonia asking how she could make you more comfy..........Can your reply be published on the forum ;-))))
Any way It was a pleasure to help a fellow Mtb'er out and hope you might be able to join us on a few rides in the future when your mended.
Wishing you all the best and a speedy recovery from all the Boggies.
Take Care JP.
I'm thinking along the lines of re-uniting for a ride when Chris is fit again and maybe trying to raise a few quid for said air ambulance/MRT team anyone interested - I've already got a couple, SFB, Julia, myself maybe even fit nursey!!!
myself maybe even fit nursey!!!
the lovely Sonia ?? Ye-har!
Good call from fizzer. This thread is screaming for some sort of air ambulance fund raising thang!
well let's do it then
Chris gets fit enough to ride bike again let's go for it.
Oh, and Chris - did you feel your dignity was infringed by my posting the photos of you ?
tiz but a flesh wound!!! I helped walk Monksie down a hill near Hayf with ALOT worse. I also helped walk Myfatherwasawolf Snr out of Llandegla while he was sporting a face like a butchers slab.
People fall off following me, probably because I studied at the Steve Pullen school of line choices.
Blokey looks like he's twanged his clavicle good'n'proper. He'll be back on two wheels in time for the snow 🙂
the Steve Pullen school of line choices
Ah yes.
"SH!T!!!! It's almost opening time at The Northern, what's the fastest route down and back to the car?!"
nbt - sounds like you have first hand experience of La Pullen. For those not in the know, the 'Steve Pullen' style is one down from the 'wing & a prayer' method of riding.
Steve pullen wouldn't follow me down the rocky sunken road (Rushup edge) many years ago. Again he was too concerned with 'getting to the pub'.
Ah those were the days.
Nice that you helped myfatherwasawolf's father 'cos he's helped me loads in the past.
so, is myfatherwasawolf's father really a wolf then?
He howls like one when falling off. ( that may be a total lie).
Although aimed at horse riders and farmers this might be relevant to Peak District mountain bikers:
Calling all Horse Riders and Farmers.......If you are involved in any type of horse riding or farming activity, there is a significant risk that you may one day suffer serious and/or multiple injuries resulting in major trauma - ie less than a 10% chance of survival. Not a pleasant thought, but if it did happen you would want to know that you were getting high quality and effective treatment and care in the most appropriate setting to give you the best chance of a full recovery.
A major trauma system is being developed in the East Midlands to deliver 24/7 access to a specialist team and will bring significant patient benefit. A public consultation is underway to outline the proposals for the service and capture the views of local people on how they need it to work for them.
Derbyshire County Primary Care Trust is organising an event for horse riders and farmers in the area to raise awareness of the vision for this service and inviting comments and feedback.
Monday 26th October 2009
Bakewell Agricultural Centre 12.30pm - 2.30pm
lunch from 12 noonFor catering purposes and to obtain a free car parking permit for the event, please contact Sue Pogson by telephone 01246 514067 or e-mail sue.pogson@derbyshirecountypct.nhs.uk.
We could also arrange a presentation for your individual groups and meetings if this would be of interest.
Its great when people like SB and friends help out fellow riders, we all have crashes at some stage and it is good to know that some people will stop and help you 😀
Whilst out on Darwen moors this last Sunday I spotted a helicopter on the diagonal path leading up to the tower and realised some poor bugger had a nasty fall. It wasn't until last night whilst out on our weekly MTB excersion that I found out it was one of the mates wife who had come off her Bike. She had to be airlifted to hospital with 4 damaged vertibrea a broken collar bone, a broken wrist, 4 broken fingers and damage to her leg 😥 she is waiting to be transfered to a specialised spinal unit so they can asses if there is anything that will cause future problems.
I will update her progress when info is availible.
See link for Bolton Mountain Rescue. They played a big part in helping.
[url= http://www.boltonmrt.org.uk/go.php?page=news#2631 ]Bad Crash[/url]
Anyone who knows this path will appreciate the skill of the pilot in landing.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
That is some pretty nifty landing there, mate.
Healing vibes to her.