A friend of mine had to slow down at Lee Quarry last week as there were sheep all over the trail. It must have cost him vital seconds.
If he'd had the presence of mind to remember his dog, he would not have had this problem.
8/10 for the troll.
uh?
I have zero problem with a well trained dog under control no matter where it is.
Anywhere? I assume you are not being literal. I can think of many places I never want to see a dog no matter how well trained it is. Sat on my head right now for example
Trail centres Terrahawk ..not windswept desolate moorland 😉
Trail centres Terrahawk ..not windswept desolate moorland
Quite. It's about dogs on the blue and red, not the canal path.
However, I recall being hemmed in by approx 130 highland cows on one ride last year...yeah well,you had to be there to see how it happened. Flow was FUBAR that day.
O/T: Cows? **** they can be a scary beast to deal with. Couple of rides (funnily with Pook) and they are with calf so highly protective. One instance another unrelated cow started to approach us from the rear. Then there was me legging it across the moorland at an oblique angle as the cow and calf were blocking my escape!
stilltortoise - Member"I have zero problem with a well trained dog under control no matter where it is".
Anywhere? I assume you are not being literal. I can think of many places I never want to see a dog no matter how well trained it is. Sat on my head right now for example
[img] 
[/img]
I don't see the problem? You see the well trained dog is leaving his beer alone.
Yep, that was the same situation, only on an epic, John Wayne scale! To avoid confusion, I should stress that the cows weren't at the trail centre.
could I also add that no cows were harmed in the production of my anecdote.
I don't see the problem? You see the well trained dog is leaving his beer alone.
I love the internet. There's a picture to be found for every occasion
😆
This was done a few months back and I haven't read all the posts but I think like most if the dog is under control and poses no threat to the enjoyment of others riding then its a good thing.
I take my lab to trail centres all the time, mainly mid-week though as trail centres are horrible places to be at weekends anyway!!! 😉
He's good, always stays out of the way, comes when told and its a great workout for him. Just an extra water bottle in the camelbak to give him half way round and thats about it.
Good times.
STW Revolva-topic #32.
My Springer/Lab cross comes uot with me on trail centre rides when I'm pretty sure it will be quiet, and the same for longer stuff locally, SDW etc... I wouldn't hit Cwm Carn on a Sat or Sun with him for example.
I'm fully in control and can stop him from a dead run to a sit in the time it takes him to decellerate. However, I don't like riding myself when there's loads of others on the trails so I don't see why I should subject him to the same.
The only time he tends to get in the way is not when we're out on the bikes but when I'm bouldering as he likes to sit on my crash pad!
I think some people need to relax a little bit and realise that the trails weren't put in for their exclusive enjoyment. I don't want to have to slow down for some poncy bike riding mincer who's obviously spent too much time on the internet and too little on the bike. I still have to if I ride at 'conventional' times, hence my preferred riding time of zero:dark hundred or rainy Thursday mornings. I don't expect IT types get time off then so I work around them. Maybe some of you should consider some sort of understanding of the concept of sharing or just remember that life should be filled with joy not bile?
I don't want to have to slow down for some poncy bike riding mincer who's obviously spent too much time on the internet and too little on the bike
just remember that life should be filled with joy not bile
😆
Quite. It's about dogs on the blue and red, not the canal path.
which canal path? I didn't say anything about a canal path.
I think some people need to relax a little bit and realise that the trails weren't put in for their exclusive enjoyment
Isn't that exactly the argument that crops up on here time and time again? I.e. trail centre trails maybe should be for our exclusive enjoyment, whilst we share the bridleways, BOATS etc
We all expect other [i]bikers [/i]on a [i]bike [/i]trail, we don't all expect dogs.
This is just another circular argument. The dog owners who ride with their dogs will say, like me that they are in conrtol, they make sure they aren't in anyone's way etc. Then the dog owners who don't ride with their dogs will say that they think its a bad idea. The non dog owners will either not care and therefore not reply or even read the topic and those who have had a near miss or run over a big slimy dog egg will argue with different levels of vitriol that dogs shouldn't be allowed on the trails.
Me? I reckon that pheasants should be banned from them. The only thing alive I've ever hit (well, apart from flies, wasps and once 2 of my mates...) was a pheasant and by god the mess was awful. Trashed front wheel, buggered forks; RST Mozo Pros - blood got past the seals and into them! (Maybe more to do with the crap seals but I digress.) Maybe deer should be banned too? I've seen a few of them about on trails and don't get me started on sheep!
Reminds me why although I've been a lurker on here since the early days of the old forum my posts probably number less than 20. The OU must be delighted to have so many students on their 'Bloody/Closed minded argument' course, is it a dual qualification or just one certificate?
Oh, Mangatank. I see what you did there. my pot has been wondering where that kettle had gone. 😉
No one is daft enough to think we can remove all risks from riding at trail centres. Ice, mud, other bikers, deer, pheasants are all the kind of thing we would be annoyed at hitting but can hardly complain about it (well, maybe bikers!). We - as dog owners - have the power to keep dogs off them tho'. The debate is, should we?
We all expect other bikers on a bike trail,
not on [b]designated[/b] trails
All just a misunderstanding of our wonderful language.
I think you are getting "designated" confused with "dedicated"
What about horses? Colleague is a keen horse rider and goes out with her boyfriend on bridleways - him on his bike.
Would anyone object to them pitching up at GT or Afan?
A few weeks ago I stopped my bike for two Collies and a lady walking in horse riding gear. All I did was say 'hello' to the collies and one immediately jumped up into my arms and stuck its tongue down my throat. I was sat on the bike with arms full of Collie 😆
"We - as dog owners - have the power to keep dogs off them tho'. The debate is, should we?"
Something I think each individual has the responsibility of deciding given their own unique circumstances I think.
I am happy with my choices (that's why I made them) and can understand why others choose otherwise. I think it's a shame that such mundane things can get some people so worked up. Magnanimity would seem to be a scarce and sometimes scorned thing hearabouts.
As I've already said I avoid riding at 'peak' times because I enjoy the feeling or solitude when I'm shredding my gnar on a sweet peice of trail, hound in close persuit. Maybe it's some sort of primal endorphin hit from the vague feeling of being persued by a wolf or something, makes me feel more 'alive'. The presence of loads of others on clattering bikes with labouured breathing and the rustle of man made fibres eminating from them isn't my ideal accompaniment but I don't get upset if I'm not alone, I just live with it and accept that the moment will soon pass.
In such spirit I suppose that some of us will always disagree and as such there's little point in this debate. The internet would be so boring if everyone thought like that though, wouldn't it?
What do trail centres say on the matter. Would be interesting to hear their views of dogs unsecured on trail centre trails.
Your answer lays there. Can't you run your dog somewhere else? Or are you armouring up in the carpark next to your Warrior pickup and unloading your trail dog ready for a session? 🙄
Stop watching those biking lifestyle vids folks.
And, seeing as the OP was on about Glentress,
doesn't "Right to Roam" come into it.
Just because someone has made a new [s]trail[/s] path, designated a colour and given it a silly name - doesn't mean it's not available for all to enjoy...
...enjoy 😆
rkk01 - Member
And, seeing as the OP was on about Glentress,doesn't "Right to Roam" come into it.
"Right to Roam" is English legislation and does not apply in Scotland. However, the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2004 provides for [i]responsible[/i] access. The question here is: how [i]responsible[/i] is it to allow a dog to use a designated mountain bike trail. I'd argue that it's just as [i]irresponsible[/i] as a chapter of the local Ramblers Association walking up the Spooky Woods descent.
"Right to Roam" is English legislation
Ah, @rse, it's Friday afternoon - but you clearly saw through my error....
Yes, it would be irresponsible, no I wouldn't take my dog to a trail centre, but the point of the thread - as always with these topics - no, they are not (legally) dedicated trails for mtbers....
rkk - in Scotland its debatable :-=)
There is a provision in the LRA for "land set aside for a specific purpose" ie horse riding gallops to be exempt from the access rights - altho I think you have to apply to a sherrif for the exemption ad no one has done so - so its not clear if it would be granted for MTB trails.
teh other aspect is the "reasonable" qualification. I doubt horses on MTB trails would be reasonable - but dogs?
A debate to be had with no clear cut answers
Is it me or are some people missing the point (or maybe I've just invented my own point now - wouldn't be the first time)?
As far I know there is nothing stopping a dog/walker/horse going on a man-made "trail centre" trail, just a few signs suggesting they perhaps shouldn't. Would all the "live-and-let-live" types on this post feel the same if you went down to GT/Cannock/Afan/Whinlatter this weekend and found the local stables out for a ride on Ned and his chums? Neigh, I think not (sorry, I'll get my coat)
Druidh - if the dog is under close control tho?
"Can't you run your dog somewhere else?" Yup, and we don't mind when bike riders use the footpath we're on. It's not 'cheeky' when we're walking. He prefers nice swoopy singletrack like me too, maybe I should have taken him on more doubletrack when he was younger.
"Or are you armouring up in the carpark next to your Warrior pickup and unloading your trail dog ready for a session?"
More dragging my battered singlespeed out of the back of the 90 and poking the dog out of the passenger footwell. Last time I wore armour was playing at knights as a kid 30 years ago. 😉 (emoticon I possibly should have used in my last post to indicate tongue in cheek)
TJ - The Countryside (Scotland) Act 1967 defines "under close control" as being on a leash or no more than one pace away from the human in charge. Assuming that we can ignore the leash idea on grounds of rider safety, I'd have no issues with a dog that close - I'd never cycle that close to another cyclist anyway, so the dog would never be in the way.
And frankly, given the skill levels of some riders, I'd never take my dog to a trail park in case it was injured by someone not riding within their abilities and/or stopping distance.
if the dog is under close control tho?
Ooh, I feel a slight twist in the argument coming up. Can a dog owner ever be 100% confident their dog is under close control at all times? Someone up this page somewhere has already said no. Children mauled by dogs who are "...always well behaved, honest your honour" would say no too. Mmm, me thinks I may have made too big a twist in the argument. I'm off
Would all the "live-and-let-live" types on this post feel the same if you went down to GT/Cannock/Afan/Whinlatter this weekend and found....
I'm not aware that it is about "how I would feel" or "live and let live".
My understanding (which could well be wrong), was that it was about the legal issues around liability / negligence for being in control (or not)etc.
I ride at Afan - I work on the basis that I am at least partly responsible if I hit another trail user through not being in control (ie not being able to stop / evade within my visible distance).
Whether they are a family having a toddlers picnic in the middle of Whites Level matters not a jot. Several times I have had stop for walkers hiking up the Wall final descent - bloody inconvenient, but (I believe) they had as much right to be there as I had...
As far as liability goes I would take responsibility foor my dog causing an accident (as opposed to just being in one) in the same way as if it was me involved. As long as that attitude is in place and the dog is allowed to be where we are, off the lead then I am confident that the chances of him causing a problem for other trail users is insignificant to the point of not being an issue.
He's my dog, I love him to bits. I certainly don't want to see him injured by colliding with another trail user in the same way as not wanting a farmer with a worried sheep putting a load of buckshot into him therefore keeping him on the lead when near livestock or on farm land.
We don't go to Cwm Carn with him anymore after checking with the visitors centre in March this year about sheep on the trail and being told that they were there.
http://mbwales.com/en/content/cms/Centres/Cwmcarn/Cwmcarn.aspx
People who ride the trails with dogs off the lead. Please feel free to contact the trail centres and ask if they allow your dogs onto the trail.
Would you do this? I'd be more than happy if the trail centres cameback and said 'no problem'.
Can you guess their answer or are you people who do this ignoring this question for a reason? 😉
Just no
To the OP, would you have happened to be at GT on Friday late afternoon by anychance? I almost mowed some chaps dogs over in the freeride park on the 3 dropoffs 😳
Got a bit sketchy 😯
Well, took my dog to Kielder to try the new blue route and ummm... didn't see another person there.
Not really a problem in that case so perhaps the usual STW black or white response to a discussion may not apply?
Yet again:
[u]Ask the trail centre if dogs are permitted on the trail and off the lead?[/u]
When we know the answer then you'll either know if its right or wrong huh?
I almost mowed some chaps dogs over in the freeride park on the 3 dropoffs
Well obviously you shouldn't have been going off the drop-offs unless you had first checked the landing for dogs running around. All your fault.
When we built the trails at Kielder we always had in mind that dogs would be welcome 🙂
I got bitten by a dog at FOD on Friday! The owners said it was my fault because the dog was scared of bikes!!
Why walk your dog in a cycling area!!! FFS!!!
They were downright rude! I did not get there details because i wanted to stop the bleeding so went back to the cycle rental place...
I almost mowed some chaps dogs over in the freeride park on the 3 dropoffsWell obviously you shouldn't have been going off the drop-offs unless you had first checked the landing for dogs running around. All your fault.
Was clear on the walk up!
There is no legal restriction to stop riders/dogs from using their trails- the key issue is whether the dog owner is being responsible.
If your dog causes and accident you could be liable. It may be argued that you (the owner) are held liable knowing how many others use the trails.
You (the dog owner) need to consider this if someone is injured, hospitalised or wheelchair-bound due to your dogs actions.
The RSPCA may also question running of a dog for a number of miles. Many officers take a dim view as they consider it is not natural for a dog to run on the trails for significant distances.
The bottom line is they can not stop you from taking your dog onto the trail but you must be aware of the potential legal implications as it could be deemed as not being responsible.
This is is a cut-down edited version as I do not want to publish and email sent to me onto a public forum. My emails in my profile if anyone wants to see the full email.
So, for me its a case of early morning/off-peak and the dog runs behind the rider not infront and the understanding (to me) 'causing an accident' isn't clear-cut. i.e. It might not just be simply running into a dog or swerving to avoid, or the dog acting as an obstacle on a section but also the dog suddenly appearing alongside a rider infront who is then startled and falls off?
Surely its better just to ride a natural/bridleway trail and let the purpose-built mountain bike trails to be used solely by mountain bikers?
" hora - Member
Yet again:
Ask the trail centre if dogs are permitted on the trail and off the lead?
When we know the answer then you'll either know if its right or wrong huh?"
Well, to save anyone else the hassle I have checked with (before visiting):
Cwm Carn, they are allowed but there have been a few problems with sheep worrying (not bikers dogs apparently but may not be worth the risk unless you are sure your dog is fine with the sheep)
Afan/Glyncorrwig, dogs are allowed.
Coed y Brenin allow them too.
All 'in control', so it comes back to the usual, if you can control your dog when off the lead you can let them run free, if you can't they should be on the lead.
Was clear on the walk up!
I was joking 🙂
Just imagining what the dog lovers would have said.
