we have had only one enquiry from a lady about racing in our series
www.brownbacksracing.co.uk
are they hiding and going to surprise us on the day or don't they want to race?
We are sweating trying to get sponsors to offer prizes but its seems a bit pointless based on the interest so far
We are keen to have them racing we just don't know where they are
It doesn't actually tell you anything on that website, so how would they know that they could race there:
no dates
no race format
no information about anything except that you're organising the portaloos
See my reply on BM:
[i]There just aren't very many, ever!
Look through race results on Timelaps, you'll find a male category with 80 has 5 women! [/i]
IME women generally only make up 3-5% of total race entrys if yer lucky at bigger MTB races , so I'd expect a reletively unheard of race to have even less. How many entrys do you have in total?
or is this just elaborate SPAM? 😛
aP
dates are on the front page
more details on the downloadable entry form
http://www.brownbacksracing.co.uk/race_series/index.html
more comprehensive update going on the site this week
register for email updates here
http://www.brownbacksracing.co.uk/contact.php
more description here
http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/02/new-xc-series-for-the-north/
entries... we have enough to make us wonder where the women are
Well I would come and play, but it's a long way South from Elgin 🙁 Given the Southern bias of the English XC series I would have thought you'd have a fair few Northern based, even South Scotland ladies interested in racing.
If any ladies out there are hesitating about trying racing, go for it, it's great fun and great motivation to get out on your bike for 'training' purposes.
Member of our club who used to race and had a rainbow jersey for her trouble, I seem to remember from her comments that there were only ever a few in her category, this was masters womens and was a few years ago. I also remember another member getting a bronze UCI worlds medal in CX, to be honest she wasn't very fast but as there were only three women in the race...
If the womens races at national and international level are small, at local level....
plenty of ladies in the soggy bottom series. about 50 in every 500 across the classes/ages. Although the elite/expert has been a 2-rider race all season.
Maddie Horton (fullysussued.co.uk) ran 3 ladies-only skills weekends to conincide with the races and got quite a few ladies into the fun category who probably wouldn't have thought they had it in them. Might be worth seeing if you could set up a similar thing?
It's always been a mystery to me why there are so few women or any other ethnic minorities at bike events.
The Thetford Winter Series was capped at 600 entries this year and I think the womens category made for perhaps 40 riders, perhaps less.
more and more are showing up to Gorricks but I guess thats just growth in line with the other male categories too. In my experience a field of 15 at any race would be good although spread across catagories at a Gorrick you would probably have 30+
We had more than 40 women racers at the Black Park Race last Sunday. We even had enough to have a SS womens category!
I'll mention it to the mrs. We are only 25 mins away and this is the first we've heard of it. Have you had many enquiries from men?
lots of enquiries from the men, only one for the ladies and that was a dad emailing about his daughter
all the entries so far are male
if we get 3 or more women they will a prize list etc etc
a few turned up at the event last year and raced
the problem is we don't know if we are going to get none, 2 or 20 on the day so planning is a bit of a nightmare.
One of our sponsors already supports ladies road racing
and we are running a SS sub category if enough enter (male/ female)
any ladies around?
I will probably enter, not the first one though it clashes with something I had already entered. Planning on riding lee quarry first as well to see what I am letting myself in for.
im a lady my lord ! lol
dont have a decent bike to race tho.... altho im having a demo on the womens orange diva this weekend ! lets just see how that performs...
It's always been a mystery to me why there are so few women or any other ethnic minorities at bike events.
LOL! I din't know women were an 'ethnic minority'!
managed to hand a lady rider a flyer/ entry form at the site
no other interest to date though
no other interest to date though
You're not supposed to date them, just get them to sign up for the event.
I have never raced before and wouldn't really have a clue whether I would enjoy it or not. I got into biking through my other half a number of years ago and he raced in his teens but hasn't done anything since then apart from ride for fitness/pleasure - he said hes not keen to race but never really expanded on why not. I was tempted to come along to watch one of the races first to see if I might like to enter, just to check I wouldnt look like a slow fool 🙂
In my experience (of the Scottish XC scene) the 'fun' category is the best way to have a go without feeling silly. There are lots of different standards and of course once women see other women getting out there and having a go, they're more inclined to have a bash themselves. So be a trail blazer and go for it!!
I always thought that racing was for people who'd ridden all their lives and were super fit had all the kit and special race bikes and that it would be aggressive, unfriendly and intimidating. One of the girls in our club had a go, an almost novice rider and I thought, "hell, if she can do it, so can I" I've found it fun, sociable and motivating and I highly recommend it. But be careful, it can take over your life 🙂
Our "Have-a-go Hero" category is the best for those who just want to try it
The course for that class is shorter and they don't do the new "rollercoaster" section and some of the other new build
most people who enter will not have raced before and we emphasise the need for the faster riders to ride appropriately and allow everyone to have a good time.
Enter one of the early ones and give it a try, its only £10 afterall!
Right then Brownbacks am off to order a new cheque book - I am entering my first ever race 😆
domino
Thats what makes all the effort worthwhile
see you on the startline
I was at the BUCS (student championships) at the weekend. If people didnt either clear the a tricky downhill switchback or preferably fall off there was soo much booing (mainly from the downhill crowd i think). Frankly I bet this has put a good few female student riders off as a few of them just wanted to carry their bikes through this section.
We wouldn't encourage that type of behavior and it wasn't the experience at the event in 2008
The course is fully rideable and all-weather, ladies managed to cope with the worst stretch on the "Have-a-go Hero" course unlike some of the blokes
scu98 it has always been like that. Booing wasn't meant to be nasty to be honest.
I remember in scotland 4 years ago in the comp cat, a girl didn't get to ride one of the steps, so she pushed down. A jey-hey arrived had to stop and start shouting abuse at her, no need to say the DH crowd as you call it bullied the shit out of him for abusing the "pichounette"
I did the downhill and I did the first lap of the fun XC but my chain broke.
Your right it was a mixed crowd (XC fun + DH) but there wasnt any booing on the downhill strangely enough.
Frankly if people have enough guts to enter the XC champs which is always pretty hardcore I dont think they should get booed at all.
Some of the girls were clearly upset I could see one girl whispering some obscenities under her breath.
Everyone says "Booing wasn't meant to be nasty to be honest." but I cant really see how you can take it any other way when people start booing people who are clearly struggling.
I can kinda of the see people booing the elite riders if they were to walk it but I dont any/many did.
My girlfriend and some other females have done a few twentyfour12's/D2D's.
Last year they did a 24hr female team at Twentyfour12, they came either second or third but as there was only a handful of entrys, the rules stated no prizes would be given as there wasn't enough entrants...seems a bit tight but rules are rules.
But then some girls from a Bikemagic competition or something got called up, so all the girls from our team got excited and though they were going to get to stand on stage, but no! They got mentioned but not called up. Fair enough, it was a mix up behind the scenes, but it still left them all feeling that their 'moment' had been waved under their noses and then snatched away from them seconds later. And obviously I don't hold anything against the competition team, they did well and obviously the mag wanted the shot of their team on the podium...just like us lot, Sussex Muddyarse did!
I don't see why they need to impose a minimum number of entrants to be recognised along with everyone else. They still raced all night with no sleep, one member down after a crash/trip to A&E whilst all us blokes opted for 12hr teams and got some shut eye in the early hours. Not the best way to encourage entrants in a minority category!
Our rules state 3 entrants in a category for prizes
if only a few women enter we will merge their categories which should mean that there are prizes. Not everyone can win one but they will be there for those who can.
our aim is to get people to race so we are trying to strike the right balance
if someone wants to step forward as the womens sponsor we will talk to them info@brownbacksracing.co.uk
I think the problem is a lot of women end up getting into MTBing through partners and don't often think about racing. I raced for many years as a Youth and loved it but again people tend to forget about women and don't get recognition so you get pi**sed off. I won the Juniors event at Malverns (in the 90's!) and didn't even get to go on a podium they just gave me my prize no announcements like they did with the men.
I know things have changed significantly since then but I don't race any more as I'm not fit enough. I'm too competitive to enter a race if I don't think I have a chance of doing well! Oh and it's too far North for me sorry!
Our rules state 3 entrants in a category for prizes
Surely if two women turn up, and one wins she should get a prize?
There was an event I entered not so long back where the men got prizes, and the women did not, as according to the organiser there were not sufficient female entries.
I'm not surprised woman don't enter races.
we haven't forgotten about the ladies and they will get their podum moment, the same trophy as the blokes and a prize
the issue for us is to get enough ladies to keep it going for the series, at the moment we are trying sort it all out so they have somewhere to start racing
at the end of the day if we have an event which is 10% or 75% ladies
it doesn't matter to us we just want to get racing off the ground.
Fair point richpips - I read the 3 Peaks programme again the other day - the blokes won decent cash prizes and the first woman won a set of wheels (I think).
I might need to come up with some witty quips for any hecklers then huh?
Fair point richpips - I read the 3 Peaks programme again the other day - the blokes won decent cash prizes and the first woman won a set of wheels (I think).
A friend who posts on here occasionally, and is regularly in the top three at events, has many a tale of prize inequality. 🙁
Prize lists are a complex issue, the reality is that the blokes entries will be subsidising the ladies when you look at the prize value to entry fees at most events.
For us its a bit different as we push to get the sponsors to provide the prizes and aim to avoid giving cash back out. This gives us the issue of persuading the sponsors to lay ladies prizes on and even harder if the ladies are leaving it to the day to enter so we don't know they are going to race.
We are keen to get ladies racing in a series of events that are small, informal and don't mean a weekend's camping. Get your entries in before the first race and we will sort the prizes out. If you think you can support and are local email us and get involved info@brownbacksracing.co.uk
We are a local race series and want to get racing back on in the northwest, our aim is to do the best for the riders whatever shape they come in.
Oi! It's already back.We are a local race series and want to get racing back on in the northwest
I'll rephrase
We are just a local race series and want to get mtb XCO racing back on in the northwest
its also technically "back on" as you have no further events in the calendar 😉
it would be useful if you could let me know how many ladies did you get? what did you do for prizes for them? as any pointers would be helpful
I think you need to reconsider your event name, if I was a lady, I would stay from an event called "brown back" or "bare back" etc 😀
OK, I didn't see the bits on the edges of your website because it doesn't resize, but moving on.
I promote racing in the south east, my club also used to promote UCI races (actually there's 2 UCI commissaires in my club), but anyway - in the races I promote we lose money on the women's racing but we give prizes without all this "minimum field" crap.
IMO either put racing on and live with or don't. Don't dress it up with "minimum fields" get them in there, you've already said that your prizes are sponsored - so basically free, are you promoting to make yourself money? or promoting to put races on and not lose money?
are you promoting to make yourself money? or promoting to put races on and not lose money?
no, we are promoting so people can have a pop at us on forums
We make nothing from this venture, its all volunteer time. Anything we get goes to the riders or marshals. Any cash surplus goes to "local good causes" such as the mountain rescue team and to running the next series. We are constituted as a CASC so when we fold all the kit goes to another club.
We are take all the risks and make no money. Any other questions?
As for the ladies, if they don't enter its difficult to convince a sponsor to set aside prizes, hence the original question which you choose to ignore whilst trolling; "do ladies race bikes?"
I think we about 8% ladies at HtN1.5. We never really bothered about trying to target a certain number of female riders. We just wanted "bums on seats", we didn't specify what shape.
Regarding prizes, we had a load of stuff donated by DJ Cycles in Ramsbottom and the North Face store in Manchester and split it into 6 piles so we had 1, 2 & 3 for both men and women. I wouldn't get too hung up about it and DJ and North Face along with the other sponsors (PowerBar, VLA Events, JMC IT, Voith, Cooksons, Edmond DT, Beechfield and On One) certainly didn't attach any conditions regarding rider demographic. Also, with a £10 entry fee (or whatever it costs to do your thing) people are turning up to have a laugh, only a few will be there to win and they are not doing it for the prizes.
Future HtN events? We have stuff in the pipeline, but we don't like to talk about it.
Back to OP. Ladies do race, but in smaller numbers.
Also worth pointing out that HTN was an XC race in the North West 😉
As was Wildboar.
JamesP - Member
We had more than 40 women racers at the Black Park Race last Sunday. We even had enough to have a SS womens category!
James, that's because we told them they would be kicked out of the club if they didn't race 🙂
My wife hates mountain biking as shes says there is too much faff to make it worthwhile. You see plenty of ladies in running and triathlon events so I think there is something to that.
From my experience of talking to lots of women riders over the years, a lot are put off actually racing by the thought of mixing it with the blokes. Many have had a go at one event or another and been pushed and shoved and verbally abused by other riders while on course, not a great way to encourage women to stick at it and no amount of prizes will encourage women to come and have a go.
This year the national series, sees all the women racing at the same time, with just the juveniles and the youth riders to contend with, that's been very much welcomed by the ladies that regularly take part in the series.
Admittedly it's only the 'odd' rider who barges past but that's all it takes to put off women, so I guess with the format you have on offer, it's not gonna be that appealing to encourage women to have a go. Also it's difficult to figure out how long you'll be racing for, again most girls, new to the race thing would be terrified of thinking they'd have to race for 2 hours, I know they probably won't be but it's not explained clearly enough on the website or the entry form. Just my thoughts....
Following this topic with interest, Scottish Cycling has just formed a working group aimed at getting more women racing, there is some useful stuff here.
Worth noting too, that of 150 pre-entries for the SXC 20 are female, I'm rubbish at maths but that looks good to me !
If you want to attract more women here is my advice:
- provide decent changing/toilet facilities
- same prizes for women across the board, anything else is insulting
- don't merge Cats, if one woman turns up in Sport its not her fault nobody else did. Snub her at podium time and she won't be back.
- give the women a decent gap at the start, talk to them ! Don't set them off a minute behind the Vets, or with the Juniors whipping their heals
- offer a "reccie the course" slot for women the day before
The website will be getting a major update at the weekend with lots more information
for series 1 there is a staggered start so the "less fit" categories go for less time (probably 1 hour 30 mins worst case). The format is limited due to the lap counting system, the cost of electronic timing was prohibitive. TBH if the ladies feel that they want to race for less time that can be arranged they just need to talk to us.
our plan is to switch to a two race format in series 2
1 hour race for ladies, have a go heroes and 12-17 yo riders
then a
1.5 hour race for weekend warriors and racers
the races to be held separately
but.....
we need the numbers to justify it, the support of sponsors and the willingness of people to marshal etc for longer
starting from scratch is hard but the opportunity is there to get a summer full of racing for all across the NW in the next few years
BTW... we love HTN, in part we were inspired by the "if they can do why can't we" we just want to do it differently. We have our style HTN have theirs and there is plenty of room for both of us. Ideally next year we will have a complimentary calendar of events with mtb racing firmly re-estlablished in the NW 🙂
😯BTW... we love HTN
It doesn't mean we have to start taking showers together and stuff.
Share the love with the Grizedale/Wildboar crowd and all the winter CX/MTB mob too. Just because they are not on here doesn't mean that they are not about.
Have you thought of doing a preview ride BTW? We got loads of people (including ladies) to try the lap out before they signed up. Also, if anybody got killed it gave is a chance to change the track.
- provide decent changing/toilet facilities
sorry its portaloos only but they will be maintained
- same prizes for women across the board, anything else is insulting
- don't merge Cats, if one woman turns up in Sport its not her fault nobody else did. Snub her at podium time and she won't be back.
We are engaging with our sponsors on this, but I am also keen not to have the issue ie lots of women enter. If we have to make a decision we will consult with the riders. There will be a proper podium spot for the ladies. The same issues/ numbers apply if we have a small entry in a blokes category
- give the women a decent gap at the start, talk to them ! Don't set them off a minute behind the Vets, or with the Juniors whipping their heals
the start is easy to sort
- offer a "reccie the course" slot for women the day before
its based at a trail centre mainly on the red route, no issues there
It may be chaos management for event 1 if we have to sort it on the day. Pre-entries (LBS, BC website, XCracer, www.brownbacksracing.co.uk ) make everything easier including prize lists and a bit of email consultation
there IS going to be a preview ride as we will need to do a dress rehearsal
this might include some informal timing
sign up for the email updates (which have already started)
it will also get posted on here
Re Portaloos, you can make one of them "women only" if you have enough loos, but I wouldn't do that unless you have at least 6. I won't go into the reasons for this as I am a delicate laydee... but it is appreciated.
I know a lot of what is suggested in this area could be seen as affirmative action or even positive discrimination but sometimes you just have to suck that up for the greater good.
Although I have had some good advice from somebody who knows on setting rules re equal prize funds, organisers just stop putting on women's races if you get too heavy handed !
Funny story from last years Womens/Vets series road race in Scotland. Claire won the ladies/mens 50+ race outright, and was handed the insulting women's prize of £10, and the bloke she beat who came in second got the men's prize of £50 or so. So at least we aren't as bad as the roadies !!
as my wife may have to use them there is likely to a womens only toilet
If enough women enter they can influence the format
we are prepared to give them somewhere to race, work with them on the format and get them proper prizes, the question is whether they will turn up in enough numbers to make this happen
we want the ladies to talk to each other and mobilise themselves and turn up and race. We will try and do the rest.
website updated so you should be able to get a good idea of the format etc
www.brownbacksracing.co.uk
well it seems they do, excellent performance from the leading womens rider as well.
Ladies if you have any feedback please email info@brownbacks racing.co.uk
Anymore for anymore?
pre-enter and help us get the ladies a decent series prize
www.brownbacksracing.co.uk