[Closed] Dilemma.getting teenagers to wear an uncool cycle helmet.advise.

How old are your teens? do they meet "gillick competence" ie being aware of the consequences of their actions and the effects of them?

You do realise of course that the odds of them getting a serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very low. Millions to one

I would say its not an easy one to answer. You are obviously a convinced helmet wearer and as you probably remember I am not. Ultimately it is a judgement call. what are their reasons for not wearing one? Have a look at your reasons for wanting them to wear one.

I would say pick and chose the issues with them that you want to fight over. Is this one worth making an issue over?

Bribery ? New bike etc. Cant think what else might have made me listen as a teenager....

What about a "cool" helmet? Piss pot style one or something?

What about a "cool" helmet? Piss pot style one or something?

Thats what I was going to suggest - see plenty of teens wearing them as they seem more acceptable than the normal types

[img] [/img]

Get them to put the helmet on, then smash 'em over the head with a 2x4. When they get up ask them if they'd like to remove the helmet and compare the effects that a further blow to the head with the same 2x4 would have on their head.

Then kick 'em in the balls for not doing what they were told in the first place.

Alternatively, you could say 'Look, I'm not asking you to wear a helmet becuase I want to sound like an old fart. I'm telling you to wear a helemt because I'm your father / mother (delete as appropriate) and I love you. One day, when you have children, you'll understand and I want you to be around to understand.'

Then kick 'em in the balls for not doing what they were told in the first place.

mk1fan - are you my Dad?

the chances of injury probably are low.back in the day i never wore one and falling out of trees, crossing railway lines etc was prob far more risky but....i just want them to slap one on there head to school and same on the way back.thats all.dont expect them to wear it in class! it may be million to one but somebody somewhere will be the millionth'one wont they?

and yes they are at the age where they have absolutly no idea of the concequences of there actions. ie you make a sandwich, you eat it, the crumbs YOU left behind are not MY responsability.

Make a scrapbook of TJ's finest forum moments, then show it to them as an example of how people who don't wear helmets end up when they're old - can also be used as a reason not to do drugs as well 😉

user-removed - Member

mk1fan - are you my Dad?

No, that was the milkman. Now go and tidy your room.

XXX

Mum

user-removed - Member
mk1fan - are you my Dad?

I couldn't possible say.

tried the explanation,tried the fines,tried the "ill catch you and then youll be in trouble" but it just seems such a big image "no,no" for them i honestly think they would prob consider just not having bikes.for all i know they could be the two coolest kids in school and this may threaten to knock them off that spot??

Difficult one, I used to do much the same, leave house wearing lid, only to remove it. Making sure they have a good lid that fits and they like it (or at least isn't as gimpy looking as most others, whatever style that may be), having it with them and making it plain you expect them to wear it, is about all you can do.

odannyboy - Be their parent not their style guru. If they are the coolest kids in school then wearing helmets won't be an issue. if they're aren't the coolest kids then no one will care.

odannyboy -
and yes they are at the age where they have absolutly no idea of the concequences of there actions.

That is the crucial point. If they can make a coherent argument against wearing helmets then its a very different situation from otherwise. If its just image then that is no reason not to wear one IMO

Hilldodger - I have never hit my head when cycling except catching a helmet on an overhanging branch.

I did fall on my head as a kid several times tho - falling out of top bunks mainly

Accept it.

Then belm them ruthlessly if they fall off and become incapacitated.

That's what I'd do 😀 *

*Or possibly not

Attach chocolate to the lid 🙂

Think they need to see the value of a lid at first hand to understand.
Son of dads work colleague, a year or so older than me, died from a head injury after clipping a kerb on a bike and heading over the bars without a helmet - and he wasn't anywhere near as extreme as I

show them pictures of the uncool plebs who refuse to wear a lid

Just show them this and ask if they want to try it without a helmet!!

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

falling off the bike at walking speed onto road. was lucky the car behind stopped.

thought i was ok and picked up bike. no buckled wheels. jumped on bike. two minutes later my vision went funny and i hadtositonthe kerb.

i only started to regularly wear a helmet after my helmet-less mate took the wrong line and ended up going over a kicker andsmasj=hing his head into the ground. didn't look like much tilli lifted his hair and saw a 2" patch of skin ripped off.

rogerthecat - I'm not sure helmets would have helped there TBH 🙁

[img] [/img]

I pretty much gave up riding a bike in my teens when my dad started insisting I wore a lid. The one I had then was too tight and very hot. It gave me a headache to wear and I could't see the point, given that I'd been riding lots for most of a decade without one. Started riding again at 18 and dad was alright about me not wearing one by then, so I largely didn't although he made me buy one so I had it to use.

Twelve years on I wear one for going fast or heavy traffic and don't for pootling, folders, cargos or when I'm more worried about heatstroke than crashing.

Personally I'd not push it. Much rather concentrate on road sense, lights, working brakes and that sort of thing and let them wear a lid or not as they wish after telling them quite firmly why you do.

TJ that depends on how you define "serious head injury"

I'd happily wear a helmet to avoid the feking headacke that sliping on a patch of oil and slaming into the concreete gives you! Then again as i no longer live in sheffield and therefore not at the mersy of the trams and the oilslick that seems to develop on the concreet arround the tracks.

Arround Reading i rarely seem to put a helmet on, because theres good visibility so even through southern drivers are mostly certifiable idiots i can see them coming.

Back home i'd put a lid on to pop into the next village!

I used to be in a similar situation, I realised the dangers of not wearing a helmet but thought it looked a bit [s]gay[/s] [s]jey[/s] uncool. So I bought a pisspot (TSG one, with cool graphics and different coloured straps - not boring black!) and got some of those diamond studs like you get on studded belts. Put a few of them on the straps in various places. Not piercing the strap obviously that could be dangerous, they were the exact width of the helmet straps so the little tabs that you fold over were either side of the strap.

That may not be their kind of style of course, but it's an idea.

this si not a spoon - defining serious head injury as one that causes permanent or long term injury.

One of the issues with much of the research is "serious head injury" varies greatly in its definition

Think they need to see the value of a lid at first hand to understand.
Son of dads work colleague, a year or so older than me, died from a head injury after clipping a kerb on a bike and heading over the bars without a helmet - and he wasn't anywhere near as extreme as I

You can die of head injuries from falling down the stairs: http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/4429323.Football_coach_dies_in_stairs_fall/

I wore my helmet for riding to work this morning, because I was riding my MTB and it [i]makes[/i] me go fast, 'rail' corners, jump off kerbs and stuff.

I didn't wear it on Monday, because I was on my cargo bike, which makes me sit up, ride slowly, look around me, smile and wave at people.

At the local 4X track (I was there shredding my gnarl to the max) someone was complaining that the local council's bike promotion leaflet showed people riding bikes without wearing a helmet and how dangerous that was. Life's too short to argue when you could be riding bikes, so I didn't point out that they were safer riding sensibly with no helmet than he was riding the 4X track (which was built with council money) with a helmet.

My two kids (almost-6 and 3.5) both wear helmets when on their bikes, because they both randomly fall off for no reason. When they're older, I hope that they'll be sensible enough to choose when to wear one and when they probably don't need to. If it came to a choice between riding bikes with no helmet and not riding bikes, I'd rather they were riding bikes.

The "I'm your Dad and I love you" argument won't wear with teenagers. It barely wears with me now, and it's been 14 years since I did my A Levels....

Easiest is to just let down their tyres. Unless they can use a pump, then they'll have to find anorther way of getting to school.

I pretty much gave up riding a bike in my teens when my dad started insisting I wore a lid.

Opposite for me. I'm the only member of my family who rides lots (my mother no longer does much, though she inspired me with her tales of riding a track bike on the road when she was a teeneager - she's 64 tomorrow), and so chose to wear a lid in my teenage years. This was deeply uncool - and looked it - but I've never been too bothered about being cool, so it wasn't an issue.

[b]odannyboy[/b] - Tell your kids they're shallow and you don't want to be seen with them in public.

beat them until the submit, or just insist and follow them to school right up to the gates & then wait for them when they come out... will do there 'status' the world of good, or just beat them!!

(don't have children, don't plan on having children, don't want children and the world is probably a better place for me not having children.)

Main thing that put me off wearing a helmet was that it wasn't comfortable, so when I got a decent one that fitted right it was a lot better. I would say now though, that I rarely wear a helmet when I'm cycling round town, but I ALWAYS wear it when off road. First time I took my sister mountain biking, she lost the front wheel and dived head first into a rock! Luckily it left an inch deep hold in the helmet, not here head!

Bottom line is for riding on the road I'm lazy and don't bother, but I wouldn't dear go off road without one. I'd apply this to my kids too.

Road riding, low change of falling off. Off road, high chance of falling off.

What about offering to buy them new lids, if they promise to wear them? Might help if the issue's the lids themselves? There are cool and less cool lids...(e.g. they may prefer pisspots, or something like a giro hex etc).

Yeah, you might end up spending £40-50 on a lid for them, but if it gets them wearing it, it's your kid's heads so maybe worth it?

[i]You do realise of course that the odds of them getting a serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very low. Millions to one[/i]

Millions to one? **** statistic quote of the day. (10% of people know that).

Well you lot should be thanking me. I've destroyed 3 lids after hitting something hard head first, so I make that 3 million cyclists safe and sound!

TJ - in which part of the first post is there a question asking for opinions on the effectiveness of helmets?

I'm really at a loss as to why you continually go on about this, are you genuinely saying that it's better not to wear one?

Wackoak - and where did I question the effectiveness? I really tried to contribute usefully to the debate.

I tried to make the point that there [i] might be [/i] more significant worries.

Point out where I said helmets were not effective either on this thread or any other?

Point out where I said helmets were not effective either on this thread or any other?

here; by using made up statistics as well.

You do realise of course that the odds of them getting a serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very low. Millions to one

Jon - Ok that is hyperbole. The real risk is hundreds of thousands to one. (odds of getting a preventable head injury per year of cycling)However that simply does not say "helmets are ineffective"

The point I was trying to make with that was simply "is this issue of getting your kids to wear helmets that important" and trying to put the risks in context. Is the risk of his kids getting injured high enough to make it such a battleground. asking the question not giving an answer and note my point later

That is the crucial point. If they can make a coherent argument against wearing helmets then its a very different situation from otherwise. If its just image then that is no reason not to wear one IMO

The OP asked whether it was worth preventing his children from riding if they didn't wear helmets.

TJ's point is that the risk against which the helmet protects is a very remote one. In a rational calculation, this feeds into whether it is worth wearing a helmet, and therefore whether it is worth stopping someone riding if they refuse to do so. TJ's stat is not well expressed, but the basic point is that they are not very likely to fall, not very likely to hit their heads and if they do hit their heads it is not very likely that they will sustain injuries the severity of which will be materially impacted on by the helmet. And you need to multiply the probability of each of those events, not add them together, to achieve the percentage chance of all of them happening.

So, if we say that the chance of falling off on the way to school is, say, 3%, (so they're going to fall, assuming 2 journeys a day, 200 days a year a staggering 12 times a year as against my experience of about once in three years) and if you fall the chance of hitting your head is 33%, and if you fall and hit your head the chance that the helmet will help is 50% then the chance of you falling and hitting your head and the helmet helping is 0.005% or something isn't it? (all maths may be wrong. If you do not agree please educate me by showing your working!)

Say that's correct (it almost certainly isn't but it doesn't feel far wrong to me). If the chance of there being any point at all in the wearing of the helmet at any given time was less than one tenth of one percent you might take the view that it wasn't worth stopping the kids from riding if their view was that the helmet was a waste of time/would stop them getting their ends away.

Thank you big dummy for understanding the point.

17 year old here.

Dont wear a helmet for anything but proper riding. Then I always wear a helmet.

I fully understand the risks involved, and I'm sure your kids do as well. Its really their choice.

As for "cool" helmets, theres no such thing. (although some full face things look pretty cool, but the rule when wearing those is you have to be doing backflips or going down mountains at 40mph or you look like a ****t)

I'm good enough on a bike to not fall off unless I'm trying to do something stupid. And I usually cant find many stupid things to do on the way to college/school/shops/friends house etc. Although I must admit, Ive been getting into the habbit of falling off while looking at various bike computers/gps etc, but I dont have those on when riding to places.

The problems with wearing a helmet are:

1. ruins your hair
2. cant really wear a hat
3. can get too hot
4. look stupid (hey hey safety man)
5. youve got to leave it by the bike (it will get nicked/smashed) or take it with you wherever you go (theyre not exactly packable items)

Just make sure your kids understand the dangers of the road, tell them youd feel better if they did wear their helmet, then leave it up to them.

The thing is, TJ, that every bloomim' time someone mentions something about helmets, you trot out the same old dross, it's like the changing of the seasons or the tides of the sea. Predictable. Predictable. Predictable.
The OP wasn't concerned about statistics on helmets blah blah blah yawn. He posed a simple question: How to get his kids to wear one.
We all know what you think of helmets, and you've said it soooooooooo often we really, REALLY don't care any more, so why not just give a rest for a few months, eh? To my knowledge you've been trotting it out at every available opportunity for 2 1/2 years or more!

Peeing into the wind, aren't I?

No offence intended, like, but for the love of God, give it a rest!

Old enough to choose for themselves when they are in their teens. Direct them to the CTC forum, get them to read the helmet threads for info. Maybe have a discussion covering both pros and cons. After that lay off them as not wanting to be told what to do and wanting to form views of your own is a normal part of being and becoming an adult.

When they get to trail centres etc and everyone else is wearing them, it will be more desirable to them anyway.

With all due respect Peter, the OP's dilemma seems to be as much about whether to force them as how to force them.

And there is nothing dishonourable in being predictable and right. 🙂

Yeah maybe it is. But all I can see it TJ dribbling on again. He's sending me blind.
SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP

Argggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

... and frankly threads drift away from the OP to jucier debates anyway, such is life ... teej's points were pretty relevant. Them riding bikes sans lids is probably better than them not riding bikes at all.

😳

I really tried quite hard not to make pro / anti helmet points.

Thanks again to those who understood the point - it was really intended as advice to the OP in relation to his question.

RealMan,

whether your being silly on the way to the shops or not is irelavent. I've never properly crashed my road bike, but I still wear a lid when out on a ride (poping arroud town excepted for no good reason).

I have however through no (real) fault of my own -
a) sliped on an oil patch on a dead straight bit of road. One minute coasting allong, next im sliding down the road on my head.
b) had an SPD moment mid junction and mashed my helmet into the kerb. One minute slowing down as the car in front has miss judged and is stoping to let another car through, the next the driver is asking if im ok and I'm sat wonderign what the fejk just happened.

So you dont have to be doing anything sily to have a crash, and no ammount of 'mad rad core to the max dude' bike 'skilz' would have saved me from those (oil slicks happen, spd's sometimes just dont release)

TJ,

Maybe neither time a helmet (wasn't wearing one the first time) saved me from 'serious head injury', but being rational I'd rather potential write off £40 of helmet (an E2 on giro crash replacement) the second time than spend the day with the kind of headache incident 'a' gave me!

Still dont know why i dont wear one when poping to the shops or into town, although I do wear the pisspot and if the only bike available is the BMX? Maybe its an image thing, or maybe I associate the BMX with crashing?

BigDummy - you're probably correct but my sentiments are with PeterPoddy on this.

TJ - I really tried quite hard not to make pro / anti helmet points.

So why mention stats???

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! aaaaannnnddddd relax 🙂

God help me but for once, I thought that TJ was actually being reasonable. His stat (admittely a crap one) was I believe intended to make the point that crashes that a helmet would be beneficial in are still quite uncommon and to consider that against the negatives that stopping cycling would mean) - as explained by BD (last post page 1)

OP:

cant decide if i should give up and let them go without wearing one

I think that TJ was answering that.

Realman, as above, most of my bad helmet trashing crashes were things that I had no control over (chain slipping, feet slipping off pedals, etc) so don't kid yourself that accidents can't happen when JRA.

I feel a bit queasy having defended TJ though...

wackoak - to give some context? To try to show that the risks are low so to ask the question whether it was worth the argument with the kids?

I damm well wish I had actually given proper stats tho 😳 *makes note to self*

err if they are minors then they must wear them I think. If they refuse, then disable their bikes. (parental responsibility))

Then offer to buy them any helmet they want absolutely no expense spared as long as they wear the damn thing (value of their lives are beyond mere £)

Show them Danny Mcaskill videos (helmet worn by cool person).

Show them pictures of smashed skulls or a video of brain surgery (consequences).

thisisnotaspoon,

Yes, I agree, there could be an oil spil, or my spds could just decide to hold on a little tighter then usual. Or I could get hit by lightning, or attacked by a bear. Like I said, I understand the risks, and have come to the conclusion that the disadvantages of wearing a helmet outweigh the advantages of wearing a helmet, as the times when you actually need it are few and far between.

Besides, I'm a teenager. I'm invincible.

Here is another point - Have the kids had cycle training? say you won't nag them about helmets if they get trained up to a high standard - active rather than passive safety?

TJ - all valid points and in the end I suppose it does come down to personal choice. I'll concede that the risks are probably very, very low but I'd still rather wear one and hope that any kids I have (god forbid) would wear one also.

To be honest I saw your name in a helmet thread and thought "uh oh, here we go..."

edit: Cycle training is an ace idea.

Responds to lame reasons for going helmet-less:

1. ruins your hair (I have bad hair anyway and it covers it up)
2. cant really wear a hat (eh? Buff?)
3. can get too hot (nope, mine had great vents and a sweat brow)
4. look stupid (helmetless riders look [b]really[/b] stupid these days)
5. youve got to leave it... (strap to my bag with its straps)

I don't mind if you don't wear one, just don't ride with me unless you are wearing one. It will ruin my image 😀

If by cycle training you mean that cycling proficiency thing that schools offer, I wouldnt really bother. All it teaches you is to stick your arm out to indicate, and how to emergency brake. If you take your kids out riding with you, they will learn much more on 1 or 2 rides then they will on weeks of the cycling proficiency course.

Responses to your lame Responds to lame reasons for going helmet-less:

1. ruins your hair (I have bad hair anyway and it covers it up) - Most teenagers wont be in that situation..
2. cant really wear a hat (eh? Buff?) - Try wearing a buff to a party, college, etc..
3. can get too hot (nope, mine had great vents and a sweat brow) - So does mine (notice the [u]can[/u]) but not everyones does, and on really hot days, no helmet is as cool (temperature) as no helmet.
4. look stupid (helmetless riders look really stupid these days) - Not according to teenagers
5. youve got to leave it... (strap to my bag with its straps) - Looks stupid, and is annoying.

Ta Wackoack.

I actually felt, for a while when I started riding again atr 18, that my invincibility would be punctured if I wore the helmet, like that it only worked if I believed in it. 🙄

I quite like the argument, if your that uncool you have to wory about it then why bother? Worked at my school, I was mocked for turning up in a jumper (i'd rather not be 'cool' in winter, thanks) guess what everyone was wearing the next week? Suddenly jumpers were cool, and the afro i have in place of everyone else's spikey hair with half a tub of gel is the new target. Now curly hair ia apparnely in, and im cool 😎

Who actualy see's you to juge cool-ness when cyclign anyway?

And I actualy think helmets are cool, I NEED one of those Bern ones!

Ok I'm going to say this in really simple terms so you can all understand.

I agree with almost everything youre saying, because I'm a cyclist (I have lycra tops I think are cool)

However, NO NORMAL TEENAGER WILL AGREE with a word youre saying. And thats the point.

Here is a perfect example.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

1. Lycra top, padded lycra shorts, helmet, mitts, velcro cleated shoes.

2. Skinny jeans, smoking fags, stupid hair, stupid shoes.

Which do you think the majority of teenagers will say is cooler?

Tell them that Duffy doesn't wear one. She's not very cool, so that might persuade them.

If that fails, photoshop one onto a picture of Dizzee Rascal.

I've got 2 teenage sons that ride........long list of injuries (mainly from the local jump spot) arms, collar bones, jaw etc. If you ride hard you need a helmet.

I love A&E!

He posed a simple question: How to get his kids to wear one.

As others have said, that's not what he asked.

Kids riding bikes (with or without helmets) are likely to stay fit and healthy longer than those that don't, and I'd guess they're also more likely to keep riding into adulthood. The health benefits of riding a bike far outweigh the risks of riding a bike without wearing one.

Remember, we're talking about riding a bike to school here, not attempting a flair off a wall or Pinning your Gnarl to the Max. Normal riding in normal clothes that is stylish and cool.

[img] [/img]
[url= http://www.bikebeauty.org/english/ ]Beauty And The Bike[/url]

It's also wise to wear a helmet when banging your head against a brick wall.

Remember, we're talking about riding a bike to school here, not attempting a flair off a wall or Pinning your Gnarl to the Max. Normal riding in normal clothes that is stylish and cool.

Yes, exactly.

Odannyboy if you're determined to force the issue z1ppy was nearly there. The alternatives should be wear it to school or I will accompany you to school and be waiting for you at the days end. 👿 Physcological warfare will be required to win and you must be implacable.
Get them to talk about the pros and cons, if it all goes badly wrong while riding point out that dribbling and being fed through a straw is not a very cool look either. If you can work in double incontinence as well this will gain bonus points on the cringe scale. 😀

The alternatives should be wear it to school or I will accompany you to school and be waiting for you at the days end. Physcological warfare will be required to win and you must be implacable.

Of my mates and people I know at college and from my old school, its the ones with the parents like that who turn out to be druggies/criminals etc.

Try and force your kids into stuff and it wont work, and they will rebel harder. Tell them if they ever start smoking you will kick them out, and most likely, they will start smoking.

Get them to talk about the pros and cons, if it all goes badly wrong while riding point out that dribbling and being fed through a straw is not a very cool look either. If you can work in double incontinence as well this will gain bonus points on the cringe scale.

That's a great way to convince them that cycling is dangerous and getting them to stop.

[i]if it all goes badly wrong while riding point out that dribbling and being fed through a straw is not a very cool look either[/i]

I don't have kids, but I am deeply sceptical that this would have any impact on me now, nevermind when I was in my teens. Don't they just say "I'd rather burn out than fade away. Just turn my life suppoprt off" or something?

Your kids are going to do many dangerous things in the next few years, you can't stop them without stifling them, so just make sure that they know the facts, and let them get on with it. It's not actually about the helmet, the more you push, the more likely they are to stop cycling, which would be a bad thing.

I'm a helmet wearer BTW. My helmet is very 'cool', but like every other cyclist who wears one, I look like a gimp to any non-cyclists, it's just a fact of life.

I don't have kids, but I am deeply sceptical that this would have any impact on me now, nevermind when I was in my teens. Don't they just say "I'd rather burn out than fade away. Just turn my life suppoprt off" or something?

I'm sure it'll work just fine. After all, we tell kids that smoking will give them cancer, drinking will kill their brain cells and liver, and junk food will make them fat. I don't know any teenagers who smoke, drink or eat crap.