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Which one for a 100mm everyday use bike? Mostly used for singletrack and a bit of south downs.
Singlespeeding is obviously a thing of the past 😉
I'll say Love/Hate. Purely as I have a 1-ride old one for sale (17.5", pearlescent ivory, £190ish posted).
Love/Hate.. If nothing else, than for the Phill Woods EBB.
Love mine, gotta be said, and having seen friends faff around with the Snaderson EBB- its enough to put me off..
So yeah, Dialled all the way IMHO..
Having seen but not ridden both frames the sanderson EBB is IMO a far better design the love / hate one relies on two screws biting into the eccentric - it will distort and dent and make it very hard to get correct adjustment
Having seen but not ridden both frames the sanderson EBB is IMO a far better design the love / hate one relies on two screws biting into the eccentric - it will distort and dent and make it [b]very hard to get correct adjustment[/b]
Really?
Ive never had a problem..
As for the Sanderson design, where you can't adjust it with the crank arms on...
User error can damage anything.
But given that the first Love/Hates were sold about 4 or 5 years ago, and I have not had a spate of customers getting in touch to complain that their Phil Wood EBB is distorted or dented, I think it's fair to say the Phil Wood EBB has proven itself in the (muddy) field.
EBB on the Soloist cannot be adjusted with the crank arms on if you are using an external BB. Bit of a pain TBH, but it's a wonderful ride.
I have (soon to be had 😥 ) a Dialled PA. It's awesome and I imagine the LoveHate to be of equal or greater radness seeing how similar they are.
Agreed that as supplied, the tool for adjusting the Soloist EBB doesn't fit over some crank arms (which is a bit odd), but you only have to hacksaw a couple of cm off the tool and then it fits fine and works fine for mid-ride adjustments. No need to take the cranks off at all.
I really rate the EBB and the ride of the Soloist, although I'm sure the Love/Hate is fine too.
If you do get a Soloist, its well worth removing the EBB and liberally applying copperslip to avoid seizing if and when moisture gets in. The same is probably true of any steel frame with an EBB.
@offthebrakes, I have wondered about taking a metal file or hacksaw to the tool.. will give it a go. At the same time will apply some copper grease to the EBB. Thanks for the tip 🙂
No worries 🙂 The shop that sold me the frame suggested cutting the tool down a bit (the owner also rides one). Hacksaw is best, will take you a while to file it down enough.
Of course you will have to take at least one crank arm off to fully remove the EBB!
Having seen but not ridden both frames the sanderson EBB is IMO a far better design the love / hate one relies on two screws biting into the eccentric - it will distort and dent and make it very hard to get correct adjustment
been using one (dialled LH) for 5 years without issue.
maybe TJ is an 'engineer' and knows better.
I have used tandems with this system. the two screws can put a tiny dent into the alloy of the eb. this is how it gripos it is it not - a steel screww into the allow of the ebbb -and when you attempt to adjust it slightly the screws are now on the edge of this dent and will therefore push the ebb out of adjustment - the one I saw was covered in theses tiny dents and it made adjusting it tricky
I've had a Love/Hate for three years, constantly tinker with it (because I'm like that, not because it needs it!) and never have any trouble with the EBB.
I was tempted by one of those Soloists, glad I didn't now
can't do img thing TJ - but image of a used Phil Wood here;
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/42333342@N04/4206277755/lightbox/ ]http://www.flickr.com/photos/42333342@N04/4206277755/lightbox/[/url]
Exactly what I was talking about
[img][url= http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4051/4206277755_bcd5f029c4.jp g" target="_blank">
teh one I used the bolts had pointed ends which made this worse.
All ebb systems have advantages and disadvantages - I prefer the taper wedge type - but they can seize
Is that the new modified Phil Wood EBB with surface treatment to improve the grip of the screws....?
Seriously though, I have a a phil wood ebb in my swift and really stomp on it when it's in singlespeed mode being a bit of a clydesdale, I also probably overtighten the securing screws.
I imagine it looks just like that photo, but I have no problems in its operation at all. Easy adjustment and it doesn't move when secured.
Got an EBB (thinks it's a Woods) in a Singular Gryphon. Not used a huge amount but been just fine. Got some dents and marks and no issue thus far.
TJ in usual dogmatic, over-bearing-opinion shocker!
mine looks a bit like that last time i looked (only ever take it out for a bit of grease once a year). still works without any problems.
i guess after 40 years of making hubs/bb's etc Phil knows best and wouldn't sell anything that doesn't just work.
I had a love/hate for a couple of years. I had mine setup with an alfine and it worked great.
I sort of agree with TJ, the EBB does have two huge screws screwed into it to hold it place. But if you use a track chain,(which shouldn't stretch!) then there is no no need to move it unless you are changing sprocket sizes. I moved mine once in 3 years, when I changed the rear. It wasn't marked, so go figure.
As for the ride, it was ok. My crosser was more lively though 🙂
I bought a love/hate specifically for the ebb after I couldn't get the wheel of an io to stay put. This was despite running new bolts which weren't made of cheese as per the oem models and 2 surly tugnuts. When you can bend these whilst cranking up 1in3 hills you know you're doing well!
In comparison I never had a single problem with the dialled ebb system.
[b]there is no no need to move it unless you are changing sprocket sizes.[/b]
Exactly this...
Not meaning to throw a spanner in the works but....
I had a soloist for a year - I bought it on a bit of a whim from Red Planet - I loved it, it only slipped once and with the cut down tool I did a trailside tighten and it was fine....
However at the same time I was still running an Orange P7 as a singlespeed...and now...I have the same P7 still but no Soloist...I loved it, but not enough to get rid of the P7. I did get a little sad when I saw a good soloist example at ssuk but...you can't keep everything and the P7 just rode more to my style.
then there is no no need to move it unless you are changing sprocket sizes. I moved mine once in 3 years
for about a year i ran mine as a dinglespeed with 2 sprockets/chainrings that added up to the same number of teeth so you could use the same chain and swap between the 2 ratios. one was for offroad and one for commuting with slicks, but due to differences in chain wrap i had to adjust the ebb every week when swapping from commute to offroad mode.
despite this regular adjustment it still works without fault.
The two bikes in question:
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not that that is helpful but...
I recently built up a Love/Hate specifically around the Alfine 11 and have now completed a couple of hundred of miles on it. It has quickly turned into my fave bike. The excellent handling combined with the immediacy of the gear shifts and the near silent running make it an absolute dream, especially on singletrack. Also its gratifying to be plugging muddy trails with next to no effect on drivetrain response.
Its taken my legs a while to get up to speed with the change in cadence that the Alfine forces but am getting there. No probs with the EBB. Just need to keep it lubed otherwise it gets a bit stiff for adjusting.
Here it is - the fork got changed pretty quickly as it was letting the excellent ride of the frame down. Buy one !
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Well if it helps any, I'm picking the Love/Hate with 32x16 over my 575 most of the time, despite it being totally the wrong bike for my terrain (haven't done a ride with less than 1200m climbing for ages). It's been a great all day frame, it's the legs that go first. No probs whatsoever with the pointy EBB screws.
Some pics...
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