[Closed] Cyclist killed on A9, another injured

RIP very sad story

To some degree you can negate this by driving slower but inles syou want to argue that age does not involve decline I dont really see what your poinr is when you cite ageism.

[b]Their[/b] reactions will probably be slower than [b]their[/b] reactions were when they were younger but that does not mean that they are slower than [b]all[/b] 20 year olds. In a lot of cases they may be but there will be 20 yr olds with slow reactions too or older people who had incredibly fast reactions when they were younger that have declined to merely average levels. That's why it's ageism to have a blanket ban at a particular age.

A proper retest at some stage(s) over your driving life sounds like good idea and I can think of a number of families that would have welcomed it to help them persuade older relatives it was time to call it a day and a salutatory lesson for those of us in the middle of our driving life who had got into sloppy habits.

what a lovely lot of agism. Chronological age is no indicator of how well you function. some 90 yr olds are more able than some 30 yr olds.

the answer is compulsory retesting for everyone.

accident stats do not lie, OAPs are not a high risk group.

I give you the example of len vale onslow - riding a motorcycle daily at 102 yrs old

[img] [/img] died a few years ago. One of the greats.

I give you the example of len vale onslow - riding a motorcycle daily at 102 yrs old

He's riding on the pavement. 😯

oops

LOL!

Drac - Moderator
He's riding on the pavement.

Doesn't everyone do that with their motorbike? Makes it more sporting than riding on the road...

He's a good example though. Bet he was safer than any amount of 20 year olds on a motorbike.

He's riding on the pavement.

Drac - Moderator
He's riding on the pavement.

looks like he's stationary on the pavement to me

We live close to the A49 in Cheshire and see LEJOGers along there almost every day....I wouldn't ride along there on my bike for more than the 100 yards or so it takes me to get to my routes as it's a treacherous road. I don't know of any accidents along there yet, but tbh drivers, including HGV's, routinely drive at 70 along there & it's not a dual carriageway. In some spots it's pretty narrow and twisting.

I gave up my roadbike several years ago, which was a big impact and meant giving up racing, simply because my kids were getting into it and I couldn't possibly let them ride on the roads round here - almost strictly off road for us now.

These stories are terribly sad but I am afraid, with increasing amounts of traffic, faster cars, ageing drivers, mad teenage drivers, seemingly increasing car culture (witness Top Gears popularity and some of the outrageous driving they seem to do on country roads in their test drives - surely encourages the same in their audience??!)...there is only one way - and that's to head for the trails and keep away from the roads!

Chronological age is no indicator of how well you function.

Untrue!
Of course there are odd exceptions.
TJ
You bang on about facts and evidence all the time but conveniently forget it when it suits.

I find your post terribly sad, velocipede - I still happily ride on the road lots, and statistically doing so is far from the most dangerous sport I could take part in. Hope my kids will enjoy it to when they're just a little older (actually I already take them on the tandem). Wouldn't choose to ride on the A49, but there are plenty of other choices of road.

velocipede I rarely commute on my bike to work now here in Manchester. One close miss a week is too much.

Ironically most of the close misses have been with Police officers. I imagine its a 7am shift start at the local large area headquarters. I could complain but honestly- what would really happen?

I ****ing kid you not. Only last week I had to pull up alongside a Officer rushing for his shift and ask him to CALM DOWN three times after he undertook me at over 40 in a 30.

We live close to the A49 in Cheshire and see LEJOGers along there almost every day....I wouldn't ride along there on my bike for more than the 100 yards or so it takes me to get to my routes as it's a treacherous road.

When we did lejog we tried very hard to avoid the major routes, actually quite easy to do much nicer on quieter roads.

both coming from Shrewsbury my best mate and I knowing the A49 well north and south we were amazed that so many joggers use any of it..crap road to cycle on but then it is a crap road to drive on as well.

ps Top Gear is great fun

Still racing... And he'd kick your arse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_Moss

And there's others.
Compulsory retesting, however, is a different matter....

Call me a pedant but he retired 4 months ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13721531.stm

Ironically most of the close misses have been with Police officers. I imagine its a 7am shift start at the local large area headquarters. I could complain but honestly- what would really happen?

Its not just that but what good it'll achieve. I can easily go to the desk with the reg number and create merry hell. There just seems to be a fair few who are probably running late? (circa 640-700am).

nick1962 - Member

Chronological age is no indicator of how well you function.

Untrue!
Of course there are odd exceptions.
TJ
You bang on about facts and evidence all the time but conveniently forget it when it suits.

I work with the elderly - its my speciality.

chronological age is no guide at all - biological age is.

I have met 90- yr olds who are still competent cyclists, I have met 65 year olds who are to old to drive.

this why an age cutoff is wrong a skills cuttoff is right. when you r reaction time or cognitive ability is diminishing then you need to stop driving. For some this will be in their 60s, for some their 90s

Len vale Onslow / Stirling moss - are you going to say they are too old to drive?

I'm at work at the moment and one of the lads who works for me is friends with the couple. It had started to rain so they stopped to put their coats on. The driver swerved to avoid a cat that ran into the road and ploughed straight through them.

Chris is apparently awake but not in a good way.

Personally, I would at least attempt to stay on topic given the circumstances.

No one is saying you just cant drive when you reach a certain age just that you have declined from earlier years and a retest may be prudent. It is ridiculous to claim there is no decline with age just as it is ridiculous to claim there are no difference between people of the same age.
Is sterling Moss as good now as he was in his prime ...see we even have a word to describe your peak.
Why do you specialise with the elderly ? Is it because they are different from the rest of us. Is this difference due to age ?
EDIT: Given the above post I am out, it appeared whilst I was typing slowly

. The driver swerved to avoid a cat that ran into the road and ploughed straight through them.

Like i always say kill or hurt my loved one, accident or not, i will kill you.

Charming.

How about compulsory re-test every 10 years from the date you first pass your test then every 5 years after your 70, must include a more stringent eyesight test.

The test really is a joke, no motorway driving no night driving, even when i passes it at 17 i thought i was a piece of piss.

Would force drivers to get more training. Yes costs would go up but maybe road death would be reduced from the 4000 a year they are at.

The car driver in this accident was on her way to hospital for a cataract operation.

thegreatape - Member

The car driver in this accident was on her way to hospital for a cataract operation.

You couldn't make it up

My wife does Marie Curie nursing, amongst other things. She told me today about her most recent patient, who died this week from a brain tumour. This man had been having vision and balance problems for several months. He refused to see his doctor for the sole reason that he feared the doctor would stop him driving. Only when he could no longer pick anything up did he go. How did this man who could not hold a book travel to his doctor. Yes, he drove there.

It's terrible news and infuriating that a cat was deemed more important by the driver than 2 human beings...

I feel for the husband and wife.

Their families must be going through hell right now.

"Would force drivers to get more training. Yes costs would go up but maybe road death would be reduced from the 4000 a year they are at. "

You mean like down to the 2222 in 2009?

The UK has among the safest roads in Europe. Not that there isn't room for further improvement. Why, for example, do we have a system where drivers routinely can get three driving convictions in three years without a ban? Why are there so many loopholes allowing drivers convicted of seriously bad driving to escape bans. Over 100mph and no ban? Come on.

http://www.highland-news.co.uk/News/Ton-up-Inverness-driver-escapes-ban-03082011.htm

http://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/news/8432347.Motorists_escape_ban_despite_topping_100mph_on_A417/

etc.

getonyourbike - Member
It's terrible news and infuriating that a cat was deemed more important by the driver than 2 human beings...

There are many stupid people driving who will swerve for animals without thinking.

That in its self should be worth a life time ban even if they didnt hit anyone.

getonyourbike - Member
It's terrible news and infuriating that a cat was deemed more important by the driver than 2 human beings...
POSTED 7 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Id imagine It's a natural reaction for the majority of people to swerve if anything runs out.

I work with the elderly - its my speciality.

How many times have you had concerned children of elderly drivers request you to advise their father/mother not to drive?
It has happened to me heaps of times.
I think compulsory testing would remove the responsibility of the family in these situations.
I am surprised insurance companies haven't placed conditions on elderly drivers.
I agree that the skills of the elderly are highly variable but surely its not a bad thing to have them prove their ability in the interests of public safety.
Personally I would support a move to retest annually. 5 years is a long of time in this group.

Hugor - I agree with retesting for everyone, I don't agree with blanket age bans

I'm pretty sure white people are involved in most of the accidents in the UK.

Maybe we should ban them.

Prejudiced discriminatory policies are ridiculous.

That's tragic outcome for what was probably a trip of of lifetime. I've been knoocked off by a 70+ yr old and yes compulsary re-testing should be done over 70 IMO.

Was thinking last time I was up that way how little I'd want to ride on the A9 but how little choice you would have on the top of Scotland part of the route if you wanted to do the lejog.

We did Lejog and specifically avoided as much trunk road as possible and enjoy the ride rather than just surviving. Meant a longer route obviously but we had no close encounters with cars/lorries en-route. [url= http://letojog.co.uk/ ]Lejog[/url]. At the top of Scotlandshire we went up the "A836" (it's little more than a lane) over Craske Inn and down to Altnaharra - Brilliant route to avoid A9.

When re-searching the route we couldn't believe how many people were taking both the A30 in cornwall and the A9 up north. Just hugely dangerous roads to be on a bike riding....and yes I know we have the right, I just think self-preservation and enjoyment is a major consideration for the sake of a few extra miles/hours. Especially when no one doing this is realistically going to break any of the existing records...

A30 in cornwall

being from there i can safely say that only muppets ride on that road

Massively tragic event. A driver with cataracts has no place behind the wheel. If true and she didn't inform the DVLA of her condition, she should be charged with death by dangerous driving regardless of age.

I'm a supporter of compulsory evaluation for suitability to drive after a certain age. Not necessarily a full test but an eye sight check (both in daylight and simulated night time conditions) plus a hazard perception/reaction test.

I also feel that GP's, hospitals and opticians should have a legal responsibility placed up on them to inform the DVLA of circumstances which would exclude a driver whether it's poor eyesight, epilepsy, brain tumour etc. At present it's too often down to the driver to be honest and responsible.

One of my grandad's, god bless him, was driving into his 90's. I remember seeing him drive in his late 70's. I was shocked at how bad his driving had become and hoped I was never on the road at the same time. His reactions had slowed to such an extent it was terrifying. He also had developed a total lack of spacial awareness when driving. I'm all for independence for the elderly but at what cost.

simulated night time conditions

very important with the number of people who have laser eye surgery which impacts night vision

but testing (skills and eyesight) is not going to happen, too many lazy knee jerk reactionaries involved and even if it did happen people will ignore it as those who have no tax, insurance and valid DL do every day

chronological age is no guide at all - biological age is.

I made my Father go for an eye test last year (he's 81) just to be sure he was ok to still drive. IMO both he and my Mother are safe drivers, who use their cars daily and are considerably better drivers than a very high proportion of the total muppets a fraction of their age. I would have no compunction in stopping them driving (by whatever means) if I felt they were a danger to themselves or others.

In response to the 'ageists' reactionary comments, you only have to look at the fatal accident figures to realise that banning under 20's would have a far greater effect than banning over 75's.

Very sad story.

I'm pretty sure white people are involved in most of the accidents in the UK.

Maybe we should ban them.

Prejudiced discriminatory policies are ridiculous.

Tragic story as is any death cyclist or not. I don't know the circumstances so I'm not going to lay blame with anyone. My condolences to all who know the couple.

[i]Like i always say kill or hurt my loved one, accident or not, i will kill you.[/i]

Stupid thing to say and if it came to it I'm quite sure you wouldn't have quite such an idiotic attitude.

Let's take an example, 'loved one' trips and breaks leg, so they get 'hurt' and you kill someone for that?

I also feel that GP's, hospitals and opticians should have a legal responsibility placed up on them to inform the DVLA of circumstances which would exclude a driver whether it's poor eyesight, epilepsy, brain tumour etc. At present it's too often down to the driver to be honest and responsible.

It is impossible by the bedside after illness or injury to be able to determine if someone can drive competently. The only way to do this is a formal driving test which simulates the driving conditions. Therefore such responsibility must lie with the DVLA. People with all manner of disabilities are legally allowed and competent to drive but they are tested in their vehicle with the necessary modifications.

I support regular testing of high risk groups which includes the elderly. I agree that young drivers are probably a higher risk group, but I doubt that driving tests would diminish that risk as their problem is probably more behavioural rather than physiological. A different strategy is needed there.

hugor - Member
I am surprised insurance companies haven't placed conditions on elderly drivers.

neninja - Member
A driver with cataracts has no place behind the wheel. If true and she didn't inform the DVLA of her condition, she should be charged with death by dangerous driving regardless of age.

Damn right! You'd think that they would employ people to work out what the risk and consequences of accidents was across all age groups and charge for insurance accordingly. Oh......

They do. You ever tried to insure an 18 year old new driver. Pop over to gocompare and get a quote!

Why is it ok to prejudice against one extreme of the driver age group but not the other?

druidh - Member

If the drivers eyesight was so bad, how come she saw the cat?

Excellent 😆