Am commuting on a Boardman Team Carbon, its fine but zero clearance for anything bigger than 23c tyres, things get a little skittish at times on London potholes.
Am thinking about getting a CX bike to commute on, I like to take it easy on my commute, not race around, sit up and relax and generally be safe. Looking at Croix de Fer (which has mechanical disc brakes) but maybe also something from Cannondale or Fuji which come with cantilevers.
The calipers on the Boardman (Tektro) do the job just about but I wouldnt want any less power. Are canti's noticeably less powerful?
Cantis can be set up to be more than powerful enough.
The usual reasons folk like discs on road/cross bikes are to do with a perception of greater power and control - and not eating rims in winter.
Cantis are good, discs are good.
As an interesting perspective my commuter bike (when not doing the train/Brompton thing) is a Trek Portland with shimano cable discs - now with XT rotors and better pads. Cycling in this morning in the rain there's a disturbing wait for the discs to wipe clean before they start to work - certainly no better than rim brakes. The Tektro cantilevers on my cx bike are plenty powerful enough to lock the back wheel and to get the back wheel off the ground using the front brake. I think that cantilevers are much more fit and forget than discs as I constantly have to adjust the discs on my Portland.
Cantis fine, but can you believe in years gone by people used to race downhill using them, offroad
Imagine that if you will, offroad downhill bumps and all on cantilever brakes, madness absolute sheer madness I tell you, can't imagine Danny Hart being that stupid can you?!
Interesting, a lot of people seem to be saying that cable disks are a pain to set up/maintain.
How about getting a cotic X, either with cantis or disks? Nice future proof frame for when proper disks and STI integration comes about.
I've got mini V's on my drop barred tourer. Enough power to coast in on the front wheel in full touring trim!
Canti's can be a pain to set up, but if set up correctly can be very powerful. I've got tektro CR520's on my LHT tourer/commuter, they do stop me (eventually) but i've not really got them set up right. You can also get some long reach caliper brakes like Tektro R556 that will give more clearance for bigger tires and mudguards (more clearance than road calipers, not canti's)
[i]Are canti's noticeably less powerful?[/i]
In the dry cantis are fine, in the wet they are shit. No amount of adjustment can make them fine in the wet, on the road. I use a jake the snake for commuting, every winter I think 'I really need to get a disc brake for the front of this bike' (would need new forks and wheel though). Planning is key but when a car pulls in front of you its scarey.
where as even in the wet in new zealand my tektro cantis on my kona jake which was fully loaded for touring were able to stop me more than adaquately - where do you commute that you need to be able to put your self over the bars at a moments notice ? through zippos circus ?
nah through Glasgow.
Cantis are shit in the wet, like any rim brake, no matter how awesome you are at setting them up.
In the wet with disc brakes you'll also find that they take a while to bite, they're not the panacea to all your ills.
Interesting, a lot of people seem to be saying that cable disks are a pain to set up/maintain.
BB7s are ace on road and off and easy to set up and maintain, Tektro Lyras were feeble and did my head in, haven't used the Shimano ones.
I got 28mm tyres in my Boardman Team Carbon.
No amount of adjustment can make them fine in the wet, on the road
With decent brake blocks they work just fine.
As with all sorts of mechanical things on here,
"xxxx are shit" = "I'm incompetent"
Bad in the wet is not what I want to hear. I'm 6'3, 86kg and live on a big hill.....
[i]With decent brake blocks they work just fine.[/i]
That's bollox, either that or your definition of 'fine' is way off the mark.
Explain how a pad that has to rub water off a rim before it can begin the stopping process can be fine.
My frogglegs are set up very well thanks but no amount of setting up can get round the issue of a wet rim.
Maybe you don't ride your bike in the rain.
[i]That's bollox[/i]
No, it isn't.
🙂
I run XTR V-Brakes on my CX bike - just use a problem solver to sort out the difference in cable pull. Super powerfull and great in the wet.
Discs are way better in tif wet. IF you are used to them you won't want to go back.
Cantilever brake forum posts always bring out the superheroes for some reason.
Same as him ^ ( but not XTR :cry:)
[i]Cantilever brake forum posts always bring out the superheroes for some reason.[/i]
I was thinking the same. Well, if you substitute 'mechanically inept' for 'superheroes', that is.
😀
In my experience, calipers work so much better than cantis. I run wide-profile cantis on my Cross Check and they're fine and easy to set up, but ultimately a bit rubbish, especially in the wet. Wide-profile cantis are pretty insensitive to set-up, but it just means they're always fairly rubbish, even with Kool-Stop salmons.
Narrow-profile cantis can be more powerful, but you lose out on mud clearance and they can be trickier to set up. Same with mini-Vs, I think, but I haven't tried.
Personally, if I were to buy a new CX-type bike, I'd go with BB7 discs.
cantis are fine power wise but a set of pads last me around 6 months and they need adjusting every 2 months.
where do you commute that you need to be able to put your self over the bars at a moments notice ? through zippos circus ?
STW gold - right there 😆
with the right blocks (took some finding) and right set up (really equal pulls on each side) i find frogglegs will slow me or stop me but what worries me is percieved(?) lack of control and no real [b]consistency[/b] in performance - this means that i find i ride slower on wet/bendy hills than i should just because i'm not sure what will happen when pull on brakes - switching to disks as soon as can get act together to start building got some road bb7's on th shelf
Wide-profile cantis are pretty insensitive to set-up
I can only assume you've only explored a very limited range of setup options (and possibly only have fixed length straddles) - straddle length makes a huge difference to the performance of wide-profile cantis.
Explain how a pad that has to rub water off a rim before it can begin the stopping process can be fine.
Ah, so presumably disc brakes aren't fine either? Or does having the braking surface in a different place give it magical water repellant properties?
your only every going to get as much stopping DISTANCE as the grip levels of the tyre and surface allow, what we are really talking about here is stopping reaction.
having tried all 3 in wet and dry, loaded and unloaded, discs react quicker and and give more power quicker, mini v's are a good all rounder easier to setup up and maintain , but you lose clearance in order to get good response as you have to run the pads close to the rim, and in order to open them up you have to have an adjuster.
the cantis *can* give you the same as mini v's but the sheer effort to set them up correctly and maintain them is (IMHO) not worth the benefit of clearance over mini-v's.
we should all wait a wee while and when the manufactures get on the ball at making UCI compatible disc brakes, we'll have much to chose from for Drops and straight bars. 😉
I've cantis on my cx for commuting. the brakes work fine enough that the tyres lost traction on the road. two wheel drift approaching traffic lights down hill. Parp.
[i]Ah, so presumably disc brakes aren't fine either? Or does having the braking surface in a different place give it magical water repellant properties?[/i]
Have a think about what you're trying to shed water from and what you're using to do that.
Well, from my experience of currently owning road/cx bikes with calipers, cantilevers and discs the discs are not much better in the wet than cantilever or caliper brakes because they still take time to warm up and they also howl.
I rode in today on a disc'd road bike and there's a distinct lack of braking for about a second - just the same as on a rim braked bike.
mini Vs are way better than the cantis I had on my CX bike.
I fettled with my cantis, put on koolstop pads, played with the straddle wire, consulted sheldon etc etc. Then, I put on a set of mini Vs and they were loads better without any adjustment and still using the standard pads that you would have thought were crap.
After using mini Vs I no longer see the need for cable discs on my CX.
I definitely wouldn't now for the same reason that my mtbs got v-brakes when they came out - vs are much better than Cantis. I'd go for discs if my frame would take them but as a compromise, V brakes with travel agents are very good - excellent braking and no reliability issues.
With decent brake blocks they work just fine.That's bollox, either that or your definition of 'fine' is way off the mark.
Explain how a pad that has to rub water off a rim before it can begin the stopping process can be fine.
My frogglegs are set up very well thanks but no amount of setting up can get round the issue of a wet rim.
Maybe you don't ride your bike in the rain.
Not Bollox.
Allot of pads are designed to rub or shed water off the braking surface.
Koolstop Salmon pads are excellent for wet and muddy conditions on Mini V or canti's,
Sven Nys and the like don't seem to have any issues at riding in mud.
My commute is only 5 miles but the roads are shonky and the traffic can be heavy. Thinking maybe I get a mtb like Genesis Latitude (is through Evans C2W) sell the fork for a rigid, fit slicks....will have a properly London proof commuting bike.
Whats the biggest ring I can fit to a mtb chainset roughly? They take a 50? 44 I think I'm going to be spinning, maybe not.
love the canti arguments its just about your set up... so being stupid and answer the question.will cantis be less powerfull...maybe if your breaking on mud or ice.On dry tarmac dry pads set up well ...not they will be as good.Do you need more? if your running 42mm tyres and dropping down 2 ft drops on 30% downhills .yes you do but its also not a cross bike and therefore ride a mtb.good lord stw.
Bruce
IME the advocates of discs on road or cx bikes are those who have them...and won't in back.
ADvocates of cantis or vs over discs usually have some investment in saying they ase Ione dontII, why do you need better etc.
Personally - mini vs over cantis, discs over mini vs.
Waves at al!
I'm using cantis, calipers and discs - and there are advantages and disadvantages to all 3. In my experience - disc'd road bike for 2 years there's not that much of an advantage over cantilevers and calipers, however I'm not going to stop anyone else having their own likes and dislikes.
ADvocates of cantis or vs over discs usually have some investment in saying they ase Ione dontII, why do you need better etc
Can you repeat that in English?
Got all these brakes on different bikes. Had no problems with any and noticed no particular difference in them. Adapt and survive. Prefer salmon koolstops on tektro 720s for fiddle-free operation, no problem in wet. BB7s scream like banshees in the wet. Good advance warning but is there any way of stopping this?
I use Cantis on my CX...
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Granted, they don't have the same stopping power of my Hope M4s at stopping this #18stoneofidiot..
But, to be fair, half the "fun" of Cyclo Cross is the sheer panic of not being able to stop.. 🙂
My Cotic X has discs. Way more powerful than the V's on the Tricross I have. Better. Hmm. A real cross bike doesn't need wonderful brakes. A cross bike used for other things , like my X might, well do so. Maybe we would stop calling cross bikes not used for cross racing, rough stuff bikes instead. :lol:As for the set up thingy, why are cantis hard to set up? You just toe them in a touch as with V's, fiddle with the cable to get the correct start pint as with V's and they go. maybe I just don't get V's having been born in a canti era.
mattsccm -
Member
A real cross bike doesn't need wonderful brakes. A cross bike used for other things , like my X might, well do so. Maybe we would stop calling cross bikes not used for cross racing, rough stuff bikes instead.
"Real" cross bike? 🙄
I bet about 5% of cross bikes are used for what you so humbly call real cross.
They stop my tandem in the wet. You won't die.
I spent enough time fannying around with cantis back when there was nothing better. I don't think there's a force in the world that could get me to go to the dustbin of history and take a set out and fit them to a bike now.
cynic-al - Member
IME the advocates of discs on road or cx bikes are those who have them...and won't in back.ADvocates of cantis or vs over discs usually have some investment in saying they ase Ione dontII, why do you need better etc
I took discs (BB7) off my cross bike and fitted cantis (TRP EuroX). The main reason was because they look nicer 🙂
Kapow!
+1 Northwind I never want to go back to Canti days, gorillia boosters, froglegs, proper shimano straddle cable length tool, lots of different blocks, just a flawed design.
Stick some mini Vees on, or normal Vees with Problem Solvers.
The canti's on my cx have been fine can lock the back will easy enough. Just spend alot of time getting them set up right.
Real cross.
My point exactly. Cantis work fine for that job(racing around relatively flat, often muddy tracks with few big descents) , in fact given the mud clearance, I would say currently they are the best option.
I was trying to make the point that many people want a CX bike, go on about how certain things work best on CX bikes, get all upset when they are contradicted but don't use the bike for its purpose. I don't use my CX bikes for their purpose either. I moaned last night when I missed a rabbit with my air rifle. The shotgun would have been the right tool for the situation really so moaning wasn't the thing to do.
For other situations other things work best.I like the disc brakes on my Cotic as the bike is used for a multitude of uses. Disc brakes mean that swapping wheels with different tyres is easy without having to stick to the same rims every time. It means that should I crisp a rim when out in the depths of mid Wales on a long rocky green lane I don't have to get the spanners out to have working brakes. The v's on my Tricross stay partly becuase they are there and thus cheap and partly becuase they work well for its use, a mix of forest track and paths 12 months of the yera and I can get pads for 3 quid from many shops.
I think its called horse's for courses.
Oh yeah, it might be my technique but am I the only one who finds that dropping wheels out is easier with cantis. V's need to be set close to the rims and when they are released they don't go bacak as far as canti's.