[Closed] LBS Customer BS

Yeah, I had that too - common unfortunately in retail - If they don't put money down, you can assume they're unlikely to be returning.

Why do they do it - they get carried away with it but don't want to admit face to face that they've been wasting your time so carry on with the pretence. At least that's what I figured.

Also some ****er is now claiming a colleague offered him a discount that was in fact not offered...all for £20 😡

why do they do this, is it some inability not to lie?

To gleam all your knowledge, then buy it cheaper on the net [s]probably[/s] sadly...

People lie...........all the time.

A common one round here is "I'll be back after I've cleared it with the wife".

I'm revisiting my earlier "career" in bike shop retail.

Don't do it

I did this once regarding an alfine conversion for my SS road bike. Seemed like a great idea in the shop but when I got home I realised that for the cost I should just buy a geared roadbike and also you couldn't get a shifter for drop bars)

In fairness I still use the shop reguarly and they never mentioned it!

To gleam all your knowledge, then buy it cheaper on the net probably sadly...

Wasn't a problem when I worked in the bike trade...

They're probablly just being polite. I use to work in a few bike shops on sales and as a mechanic. The thing i use to dread was when customers would start a sentence with "I was just riding along when....."

Then followed by stupid things like:
"my wheel bent"
"my cables are now wrapped arround my bike (head tube)"
"my wheel went flat" (puncture)
"my brakes dont stop me. They just lock the wheels"

I don't like to BS, if the deal doesn't sound too great or I reckon I might be able to get something better elsewhere I'll say "I'll have a think about it." I'd feel guilty saying "yep I'll def be back"

You have got savvy customers, well at least people visiting your shop.

People are doing it more and more, and to be honest I think you just have to accept it.

You go to the LBS, ask about a product etc, you get a price and go away and think about it, and to check whether the LBS is offering good value like your other LBS the internet.

You get home and the internet is much cheaper, so you buy on the internet.

I guess the only way round it is for LBS to do more price checking and be aware that X or Y can offer it cheaper, ok you might not be able to match, but at least point it out to the customer and advise why they are better to buy from you even though it costs more.

bellerophon - Member
Don't do it

Not my first choice, but better paid/less dull than office temping crap, and better than watching the house get repossessed...

Before I got into the habit of fixing the bike myself I'd usually ask the opinion of more than one LBS to make sure they were giving proper advice (or at least saying the same thing) and to get the best price. It's called shopping around.

It's nice to hold a shiny product in your hand..... then go home and order it online.

*runs away*

It's called shopping around.

In the united kingdumb, it all about image innit?

Who gives a shit about the truth or facts for that matter.

If someones lies to you then they have an accomplishment under thier belt.

I never believe anything unless I can varify it for myself, hope you enjoy your career change al! all the best!

Sometimes it's just being polite.

Have you never had a conversation with someone in a shop, realised they are talking pish and then decided to walk? You either waffle about "coming back" or be a bit more blunt and tell them they are spouting drivel.

So you lot couldn't sell a black hat to witch and when the customer tries to let you down gently you go online and bitch.

Not suprising the webs doing so well.

I guess the only way round it is for LBS to do more price checking and be aware that X or Y can offer it cheaper, ok you might not be able to match, but at least point it out to the customer and advise why they are better to buy from you even though it costs more.

To be fair (and I don't work in an LBS) I don't think many LBS can actually pricematch the likes of CRC can they? Not when the online lot flog many items at lower prices than an LBS would pay the distributor for the same item...

Perhaps its easier to just say:

[I]"OK you go order it off the internet and we'll charge you the £20 you saved doing that - to fit it for you when you realise you actually only own a Mastic gun, a pin hammer and a multitool and not the specific Cassette/HT2/Torx tool you actually needed to fit it..."[/I]

I did this a while ago. Went into a new LBS in town to price-up getting some forks fitted as thought they would want the business.

Guy was very helpful and said I'd come back later that week but realised after I received the boxed forks that there was little chance of me riding up Oxford Road in town with the boxed forks under my arm. I don't drive so they got took to the LBS nearer to me (but with a longer waiting list) in the end.

Can't say it bothers me- if you work in retail than you can expect to deal with customers, and there are a million reasons why they may change their mind after agreeing something verbally with you. Probably best getting a different job if you work in retail and this kind of thing bothers you.

Its just the sales magic wearing off as soon as they leave the shop, happens to me, I almost bought a £400 stereo I didn't need, had to go home to pick up some ID for the interest free credit, but common sense caught up with me halfway along the pavement and I didn't go back.

Didn't [i]mean[/i] to lie to the guy but thats effectively what I did.

"So you lot couldn't sell a black hat to witch and when the customer tries to let you down gently you go online and bitch."

ouch...........;-)

As a few have alluded to I think this is the getting carried away in the shop or some sort of internal point scoring as kaesae said. "I really want a "X" but don't have the money but if I tell the chap in the shop I'll be back Sat to buy it it's almost like actually owning it". I honestly believe this to be the case in a lot.

Personally I think people shopping around would just say "I'll leave it for now" which is a watered down version of "I'll be back on Sat" but different enough. Personally now I'd either go in armed with on line prices and ask LBS how close they could get.

Clothing (inc helmets) etc is probably the worse one where the LBS becomes the sizing test centre and then item gets online ordered.

IanW - Member

So you lot couldn't sell a black hat to witch and when the customer tries to let you down gently you go online and bitch

Oooh, uninformed speculation and bitching hypocrisy?

Well done, sir!

[img] [/img]

I like to test out shop staff before I entrust my hard earned cash/bike to them, by engaging them in conversation and asking a few fairly basic questions, some of which I already know the answers to.

If during this process one of the following happens -

- I find out they know less than me
- Their general arrogance/lack of interest becomes plain, or
- They try and fob me off with something they have in stock that's not fit for the purpose

I will politely tell them I'll think about it and return if I decide to go ahead.

I do the same with any (important) purchase, not just bike stuff.

I just look at it as being a savvy customer, and that it gives good sales staff a chance to shine, while weeding out the bad ones...

PMTB the customers in question were clearly not savvy tho, just BSers it seems.

No, but all the above says to me is that the seller has failed to persuade. As to the online bit: buyers and sellers are always looking for the best deal. The point is that for both this needs to be considered over the longer term. Online cannot compete with local service and LBSs should ensure their staff have this mantra drilled into them.

Not my first choice, but better paid/less dull than office temping crap, and better than watching the house get repossessed...

Do it 😀

Sorry just re-read all of your post 😳

Just been having a further think about this, and I have done it before.

A couple of years ago I needed a new brake set, so I thought I would use the opportunity to visit a nearish LBS that I had never been to before.

Had a look round the shop and asked about brake sets. The guys were helpful, and said they could offer me a great deal on an XT brake set. I walked out with the serious intention to think about it and probably go back and buy them.

Subsequently I searched this forum and found that Ribble Cycles were doing them substantially cheaper, so bought from them. On top of this when I actually googled a bit more, the great deal the LBS was offering me wasn't actually an offer at all but RRP. Hence why I have never been back again.

Well, when you walk in an LBS looking for a tube of teflon grease and the only one they sell comes in a pack complete with a gun (£16 instead of £6) and you say you only want a tube but don't get anywhere..............

Clothing (inc helmets) etc is probably the worse one where the LBS becomes the sizing test centre and then item gets online ordered.

Guilty 😳

Went into (an absolutely extortionate bike shop near Wokingahm) to buy a new helemt, tried on a couple of £100-£140 full face helmets, none fit properly so started at the lower end ~£80 but had a nagging feeling the one that fit was definately cheeper elswhere. £35 on CRC later and I had the same £90 helmet. the same LBS charged me £35 for 2 brakepads tough, so I don't feel guilty in the slightest.

L(ish)BS up here is cheeper than CRC for clothing (Westbrooks), and the price online/on the shelf rarely bears any relation to the till. My shoes came up £10 less than the shelf price (which matched CRC) and LS260 jersy came up a tenner cheeper too. Good job really as on both occasions I ended up needing to try on 3 different sizes to get it right!

Clothing (inc helmets) etc is probably the worse one where the LBS becomes the sizing test centre and then item gets online ordered.

I don't mind giving people time/advice/expertese if they give us some revenue, we can't compete on price so I know they will buy online.

It's just when people take up ages of your time then **** off!

The solution is simple. You need more big clumsy lummoxes like me around, as customers. Seriously... you'd make a fortune.

Every time I go to the LBS - and believe me, its fairly regularly - its because I've smashed/bent/permanently disfigured something important.

It also depends how good your LBS is. Mine's great!

*unashamed plug for DJ cycles in Holcombe*

I have had 2 different lbs's "order me in" stuff, write my name, number and what they are ordering down in a book and then never contact me about it. Both had painfully thin waffly excuses when I chased them about it. Neither asked for money up front: was that where I was going wrong?

cynic-al - Member
I don't mind giving people time/advice/expertese if they give us some revenue, we can't compete on price so I know they will buy online.

Maybe that condition comes through to the customer and they don't like it.

A common one round here is "I'll be back after I've cleared it with the wife".

sorry 😳

"we can't compete on price so I know they will buy online."

Ok might not work for everyone, but if an LBS was up front and honest with me and said, you can probably get that the same XT brake set online £40 cheaper, however I will give you 10% off our price, and if you have any problems feel free to drop back in with the bike?

The fact that you 1. acknowledging you cant match the online price but are willing to try, and 2. Offering a service that can not be offered on line means that I would be more tempted to buy from you.

When they turn up 6 months later with brakes not quite working properly its ok to charge for a re bleed etc, but again maybe offer a small discount.

If you can't compromise / un willing to compromise then surely you are not competitive in the market place?

I think it depends on what you consider what the market for an LBS is.

I don't think there is any real money to be made for a LBS aiming to sell to the likes of the people on these forums - generally we know what widget/doo-dah we want, and the chances of a smallish LBS having that particular thing in the right size/colour, in stock and at (roughly) the same price as online, are extremely slim.

I think there are lots of things that LBSs can do sucessfully - but trying to compete with online pricing (with relatively savvy customers) is not one of them.

Having been working in a bike shop in Winchester for many many years I can completely see what's being said and have experienced it countless times.

I'd whole-heartedly agree with the consensus that:
- Acknowledge, out front that you're more expensive than online but explain WHY
- Offer to price match wherever you can on a case-by-case basis.
- Offer small discounts on everything... We have signs all around promoting customers to ASK about discounts... we're always happy to discuss and try our best to help out. Any bike shop can offer 10% as a minimum off stuff... it's got to be worth it for some brand loyalty, surely?

Simple solution is to shop online. You avoid the 'lets fleece you' and the 'eternal browsers'.

More time to drink espresso, ride and chat to other morons on forums 😆

FunkyDunc - Member
If you can't compromise / un willing to compromise then surely you are not competitive in the market place?

I'm just the monkey, not the organ grinder...

The joys of retail. You just sort of get used to it after a while and ignor it

Al anythings better than being unemployed and losing your house, think yourself lucky you found a job and there are worse things than being a bike mechanic!

Oh I'm not complaining, I just don't understand the behaviour.

cynic-al - Member

Quote:- IanW - Member

So you lot couldn't sell a black hat to witch and when the customer tries to let you down gently you go online and bitch

Oooh, uninformed speculation and bitching hypocrisy?

Well done, sir

This thread is about customer actions. I am a customer so my view neither uninformed or speculative.Its based on dealing with staff like you who think the they are owed a living, your not, if the customer doesnt buy youve not done your job.

Man up and stop crying.

To be honest i really don't get how some people can try in a shop and buy online. I'll never have the gutts or the indecency to do that. Order online but assume your choice.
Al you'll get use to it. Sometimes as said they may be carried on, or they might genuinely think it's a good idea in the shop. But once back home it won't work any more.

Nothing is sold till the money's in the till, simple. Treat all customers with respect and remain honest with them. Give advice when you are asked and try not to smirk when they say something like "I've read in a forum/mag that........" Some will buy, some won't, some will buy it somewhere else and then bring it in for you to fit when they can't do it themselves and some even bring something they ordered online that's not quite right and ask you to swap it for the right size. There's nothing quite so strange as folk sometimes.
I even sold a bike the other week full retail ! I felt like I had ripped the fella off. How things have changed.

"I even sold a bike the other week full retail ! I felt like I had ripped the fella off. How things have changed."

Ah but what happens when he gets home and opens Google and sees he can get the same bike for 15% less? He says 'bugger, I've just wasted a lot of hard earned cash, I wont use that shop again they are expensive!' 😈

Well RPP is not ripping someone off. Is making a living. Once you've paid the importer, the VAT, the local taxes, the rent your staff. You won't earn a lot on the sale.

"Well RPP is not ripping someone off. Is making a living. Once you've paid the importer, the VAT, the local taxes, the rent your staff. You won't earn a lot on the sale."

But if Joe Bloggs can get the same product cheaper else where then you havent made a sale at all and have no cash in the till. The competitor is obviously still making money selling it cheaper.

With a new bike comes two free after sales services, each bike is put together properly, BB faced when it needs it and greases added when companies don't use enough/at all. If they can save 15% on RRP a 2012 bike with that additional service then they are welcome too it. Maybe I should call him up and refund him the difference.
We have a pub across the road and the publican wanted to buy a new bike and wanted a deal for cash, I asked him what sort of deal for cash I'd get that evening when I bought a round of drinks..... he said that it didn't work that way..... hmmm. Everyone as a choice as I said in a previous post.

I think it depends on what you consider what the market for an LBS is.

I don't think there is any real money to be made for a LBS aiming to sell to the likes of the people on these forums - generally we know what widget/doo-dah we want, and the chances of a smallish LBS having that particular thing in the right size/colour, in stock and at (roughly) the same price as online, are extremely slim.

I think there are lots of things that LBSs can do sucessfully - but trying to compete with online pricing (with relatively savvy customers) is not one of them.

All good points. For me the LBS is basically for when I need something in my hand that day enough to make a special trip into town, I need to try something for size, or (very rarely) I feel like treating myself to something and I'm browsing till I find something.

The trying stuff for size one is tricky though because while it's one of the big advantages the LBS has over the web it's hard to convert it into a sale and still turn a profit. Too many people will try stuff and then order online, and probably the only way to stop them doing that is to price match, which is difficult for bricks and mortar.

I am a customer so my view neither uninformed or speculative.Its based on dealing with staff like you who think the they are owed a living, your not, if the customer doesnt buy youve not done your job.

No, you don't know me, nor how I work, you've said I can't sell, how did you work that out?...on the basis of "just because?"

Uninformed speculation 🙄

The trying stuff for size one is tricky though because while it's one of the big advantages the LBS has over the web it's hard to convert it into a sale and still turn a profit. Too many people will try stuff and then order online, and probably the only way to stop them doing that is to price match, which is difficult for bricks and mortar.

I'm not sure if it's that much of an advantage now that online retailers have got their act together with returns: I can order 2 sizes, they arrive at my place of work the next day, I try them on, then send back the one I don't want using the (relatively) simple returns process.

The alternative is what? Phone around local shops to see who stocks the particular brand I want, and has that particular type of shorts in stock, in a variety of sizes - then try to drive there in my lunch break or at a weekend?

Saying that... I went to an LBS today in my lunchbreak. I bought 2m of cable outer, some ferrules, and some BB spacers. Yes, I could have bought them online infinately cheaper - but I wanted them for tonight for some spannering. And the chap in the shop was friendly, and offered me some advice about my build.

The key thing LBSs can do than online retailers can't is fit components. Why don't more shops off a free or discounted fitting service for new bits?

I'm quite bad at doing this

I have an idea and usually before I've thought it all through and weighed up my options/costs I find myself in a bike shop chatting to them (usually 18bikes). I get all excited but have that niggle in the back of my mind that I do need to think about it. I go away, sleep on it and usually see sense.

I'd never go in to a bike shop, use their advice then buy online

Well to be honest i am trying to think people should pay a fiver refundable on purchase when in a LBS...

Online you don't get the old microsoft paperclip following you around offering you advise, bothering you and suggesting 'try it this way'.

'Sir I noticed you trying to look at those shorts'

**** off. Click click and no patronising.

whats your bike shop al?

It's an "average" Edinburgh shop, a bit of everything inlcuding repairs, hire and Bromptons.

CaptJon - Member
The key thing LBSs can do than online retailers can't is fit components. Why don't more shops off a free or discounted fitting service for new bits?

Would Sir like the shirts off of our backs?

As a retailer i have no problem with people seeking advice, I'm happy to give it, but when they know that other people are waiting to be served & the phone is ringing & they still insist on taking my time with no remorse it really gets my goat. I always tell shop staff to take calls etc if I can see they are alone even if I do intend to make a large purchase, I never think myself that important.

As an example I had a youngish lad in the other day asking for his car to be diagnosed, I politely told him that there would be a charge for diagnosis & it would be refunded against any work we carried out. He excepted & I asked if he intended to save money by doing the work himself or elsewhere & he honestly replied that he was. Car was plugged in & I spent an hour or so giving him pointers & trying a few different things for him, I aso got the mechanics involved so he effectively got about 2 hours work for £20, but thats what you get when your honest & not turning up ad hock claiming that you will be the worlds best customer if you can just do me a favour now, I hate muppets that think they can dangle a carrot.

Talking of which I was once standing in line at a bank when some bloke was trying to pay a bill that clearly said it was free to pay at a PO but banks would charge for & the guy was shouting about how he was just about to change his banks & if the bank would do this FOC then he would use them, a few of us just started laughing 7 he wondered of saying that the bank had just lost his £000000's, ****!

I have to admit that I have once or twice (no more mind) gone into a modest sized chain named after a well known Scottish city to try on clothes (always with the intention of buying in the store as I do think it is quite dishonest of customers otherwise). However, having met with consistently indifferent customer service I went home and bought the stuff online. And by indifferent I mean staff who had to be begged for service - and no it wasn't busy.

At the same store I did ask them to build up a bike for me which I thought I might buy but probably wouldn't. Did I feel guilty - nope as I had bought two bikes from them in the space of two years.

Good customer service - after much procrastination (ie having asked questions, taken up Cy's time, saying I did want one, work catching up, not actually placing the order for the best part of a week) I bought a bike from Cotic last week should be here on Friday.

The key thing LBSs can do than online retailers can't is fit components. Why don't more shops off a free or discounted fitting service for new bits?

Depends what else the staff would be doing I suppose. There are lots of things LBSs [i]could[/i] do that the web can't, but I expect doing them and still making enough profit is not as easy as it sounds.
So you'd probably have loads of customers if you had a free coffee machine, loads of videos, biscuits and magazines, sold everything at well below RRP and fitted everything for free, but you wouldn't necessarily stay in business very long.
Obviously that's an extreme and somewhere with the right demographic could maybe make that sort of thing work, but finding that middle ground between keeping customers sweet and actually making enough money from them to make it all worthwhile is probably tricky.

I must say I find this whole thread rather bizarre, surely retail is all about giving advice to customers knowing that you will not always get a sale. I just spent 3000 on a new bike at a bike shop. I went around maybe six shops carrying different brands, asking honestly for advice and people seemed happy to give in. It what world would you expect someone to walk in and drop 3k on a purchase without some serious thought. I didnt get any sort of negative vibe when talking to the guys, perhaps because shops were generally empty.

and finally, I assume you've never had to go shoe/clothes shopping with girlfriend or wife. Only six shops to buy a bike, it would take twice that to find the right pair of boots! 😉

I think we've already covered the fact that fashion has a massive mark-up compared to bikes.

It's A difficult situation. I normally will only say something like that if some ridiculous price has web stated and I'm taken back a bit although most of the time I will be upfront and try strike a deal. I'm all for supporting my LBS' whether that be Wiggle, hargroves or cycle surgery but won't be taken for a ride. A couple of his isn't going to kill me. Hargroves are getting more competitive online and they will also price match as will cycle surgery. My loyalty in shops is dependant on the individual's working there. At one LBS there's a really good salesman and one who is so useless its unbelievable. If after a product or advice he is useless and just can't be bothered. I was buying a bike from them a few weeks ago, and every time i spoke to him on the phone he told me the bike hadnt been built yet - it had been sittinstorey he store for 4 days which is pretty poor when someone is spending £2k on a bike. Every time i deal with this guy I've told him not to worry and I've gone online and ordered something in a huff. If the other serves me I'm happy paying more than the cheapest online price or going against forum advice on a particular product as he's a genuine trustworthy guy. Although mail order is a lot cheaper you can't beat a good shop where you can just pop in say hello grab some bits and go but with the current state of the country we all have to look after our money. Shop owners need to look after their customers but equally we can't take the piss as they are running a company