She can ride, she’s placed pretty well in races according to Roots And Rain. The reach thing is perplexing but I think a lot of it comes down to personal taste, which is down to both your build and riding style - I’m about 7” taller than her and find 450mm reach too long! But plenty of people are enjoying Geometrons and other super long bikes. At least with Transition’s short seat tubes there’s a lot of sizing flexibility either up or down.
The BB height hasnt changed in a few years - original Smuggler was 40mm BB drop. They raised it by 5mm the following year to 35mm BB drop and that number has stayed the same since 2016.
All the SBG Transitions are heavy - maybe they’ll be unbreakable? Maybe their warranty covers gnarlier riding than other brands? Or maybe not...
Northwind, my mates slash 9.9 was closer to 32lbs with pedals!
All these bikes are gonna be weighty, my (somewhat overbuilt) Kona 153 29 was nearly 35lbs when new, though it was over 2grand cheaper, with 2 grand to play with could get it down to 32, but with higher spec components
Fwiw I've found that with a steeper seat tube, longer reach didn't feel longer (infact a bit shorter?) Going from my old process to my new one
As others have pointed out, most reviews are bullshit.
But in a world without bike shops, where else do we get our information? Demo days? OK if the manufacturer in question runs such sessions in your area, but they are no good for many.
I still value reviews, but always take them with a pinch of salt because you don't know the person reviewing the bike, they don't know you and, tbh, everyone has a preference and what works for one person wouldn't work for another!
(point in question: I would claim that my own bike is superior in nearly every way to this one, and I'm sure most people here would have a similar opinion, but that's the great thing about bikes - we all like different things and there's loads out there to satisfy those needs. Yey!)
I'd also not appreciate hubs on a 5k bike needing attention after 3months, whatever conditions u ride in !
She can ride, she’s placed pretty well in races according to Roots And Rain.
not saying she can't ride but how applicable to most aspiring good riders are her thoughts on how a bike rides when her style is almost the complete opposite of what is the norm - lots of people don't drop their heels but turning her hips the other way is very different.
wow we have descended into comparing the bike to Sam Hill and then basically saying the reviewer can't ride based on a few photos. This place is amazing!
reviews are a guide no? Are we saying that despite the reviews Michael Bay's transformers films are actually good?
not saying she can’t ride but how applicable to most aspiring good riders are her thoughts on how a bike rides when
a few pics from a couple of hundred taken on the day show something different I'm going to draw some conclusions, the pics are probably selected as the light was good or something like that,
wow we have descended into comparing the bike to Sam Hill and then basically saying the reviewer can’t ride based on a few photos. This place is amazing!
+1
This thread has unprecedented levels of WTF. Is this what we've become?
Was tempted by a smuggler, just a shame they forgot to make the new sbg models hollow though.
wow we have descended into comparing the bike to Sam Hill and then basically saying the reviewer can’t ride based on a few photos. This place is amazing!
+2
I have no opinion on anything else, but slagging off the tester for liking a different fit to you on the bike?
(Yeah it is pricey though, but others have made all the points relevant to this above.)
pricing is a bit wild for the UK. That bike is $4999 in the states - so about £3.5k in GBP. The GX version is $3999.
I previously bought a brand new smuggler in 2016 and remember the pricing was quite close to the US.
BAsically if you buy a transition in the UK at the moment its a total rip off!
just checked her roots & rain & she beat me at the last race we did together (tweedlive international) so shes obviously fast as fk! 😉
“her style is almost the complete opposite of what is the norm – lots of people don’t drop their heels but turning her hips the other way is very different.”
You can’t trust photos for judging how someone rides - good riders move a lot on their bikes and a snapshot midway through a dynamic move could put their body in what would seem a very weird position if that was their static position. For example, it’s not uncommon for riders to initially flick their hips the opposite way to start a turn more aggressively.
To be honest I looked at the shots of her going off the drop in the video and thought "fair play".
To be clear, I wasn't criticizing her thoughts on the fit of the bike. That's personal preference. I was just surprised that (at 5'4") she still wanted a slightly longer reach than the 450mm on the test bike.
It does seem at odds to me that the best in the world is happy with a 435mm reach and the smaller tester is finding 450mm too short!
It does seem at odds to me that the best in the world is happy with a 435mm reach and the smaller tester is finding 450mm too short!
We are all different. There is no magic number to make a bike "right"
I have no opinion on anything else, but slagging off the tester for liking a different fit to you on the bike?
Me neither, but if a tester likes a fit far different from the norm their opinion isn't really helpfull to anyone else.
We are all different, I'm all legs with a short body, so really long reach isn't needed for me. Most women also have comparatively long legs and shorter torso.
It does seem at odds to me that the best in the world is happy with a 435mm reach and the smaller tester is finding 450mm too short!
People* like different things, who'd have thought it. And it depends where you ride, the reason enduro bikes have got quite a s long as they have is the courses are flatter which suits a more stretched out position. If you rode an enduro bike down a world cup DH track it would be hard work as the front end would end up so much lower than you all the time, so DH bikes have always tended to have shorter reaches.
*440mm and a 60mm stem in my case, I'm sure someone on this thread has an algorithm that can deduce my ability to ride from that preference and save me the effort of actually racing, thanks in advance
and fwiw 450mm reach really doesnt feel that long on a 29er with a steep SA (im 5'8 & it feels slightly shorter than on my old 435 reach process) I also expect that SBG makes it ride wrt how the reach feels
"It does seem at odds to me that the best in the world is happy with a 435mm reach and the smaller tester is finding 450mm too short!"
Sam Hill has a very upright riding style compared to most. Maybe a flat pedal thing, maybe a moto thing, maybe just him. I have quite an upright style too, and long limbs so also prefer shorter bikes for my height (not short - just typical reach in 2016 compared to now).
"Most women also have comparatively long legs and shorter torso."
They don't, that was a marketing myth. Height vs leg length ratios show the same mean and spread for men as for women.
A quick google says you are correct chief, an also quick and not neccessarily accurate search suggests women will likely be more comfortable with shorter reach due to weight distribution and lesser upper body strength.
wow we have descended into comparing the bike to Sam Hill and then basically saying the reviewer can’t ride based on a few photos. This place is amazing!
Agree, but we’re clearly in the presence of riding gods who can dicect someone’s ability on a couple of pics....or not.
I like Transition Bikes, love my Scout but they’re certainly on the chubby end of the scale. The complete bikes are mental money though.
A quick google says you are correct chief, an also quick and not neccessarily accurate search suggests women will likely be more comfortable with shorter reach due to weight distribution and lesser upper body strength.
Snigering about top heavy lovelies asside.
It's the other way around, aren't men the top heavy ones? I seem to recall that mens broader shoulders and extra muscle adds more weight up top, whereas even at low body fat % women still carried the extra on their hips.
So yeah, simple rules there 😉
most people here are middle heavy. big swinging dic*s and beer guts 🙂
It’s the other way around, aren’t men the top heavy ones?
what about rotating weight though ?
Agree, but we’re clearly in the presence of riding gods who can dicect someone’s ability on a couple of pics….or not.
someone pointed out that she looked a little ungainly in one photo - I pointed out that her hips were pointing in an unexpected direction in 3 out of the 4 still shots.
Some people are forced to buy bikes on spec and take risks because there are no shops with demos anywhere nearby, and the point was that possibly the review might not rate as too dependable if the scant evidence showed that the rider had a slightly non-standard riding style.
It's a bit like me buying golf clubs because Jim Furyk is successful with them, or even Colin Montgomerie...
someone pointed out that she looked a little ungainly in one photo – I pointed out that her hips were pointing in an unexpected direction in 3 out of the 4 still shots.
It could be that she's trying to 'style it up' for the camera.
It could be that she’s trying to ‘style it up’ for the camera.
and failing then, otherwise someone wouldn't have pointed out that she looked ungainly.
This thread has unprecedented levels of WTF
I thought it was just me, There's a pretty unpleasant undercurrent about some of the comments.
I'm 5'4" on a 2018 medium Patrol - seated geo is pretty much like my previous bike, yes the reach & stack is longer but these bikes run a steeper seat angle & reduced offset fork & it felt right from the get go. I know it's heavier than my last bike but I genuinely haven't bothered weighing it because I'm far too busy having fun riding it. It climbs, turns & descends better than anything I've owned to date.
Reviews are just opinion & everyone will have their own. Rachael may not have been riding bikes for the 20 years plus that some of us have, but she's a cracking rider with plenty of experience & knowledge. 😎
There’s a pretty unpleasant undercurrent about some of the comments.
and what is that ?
Well said ART
A load of internet experts slagging off a reviw of a bike they've never ridden is hardly a first for any online forum*
More to the point it just shows they don't understand modern geometry and how it feels to ride these bikes
*(although this time via the reviewer themselves- cmon it's not like she's doddy!)
I thought it was just me, There’s a pretty unpleasant undercurrent about some of the comments.
Nahhh - Dirt Mag is full of bollocks as well, but journalism within the industry in general is pretty terrible. STW seems reasonably well balanced, the Germans at least try to introduce some semblance of analytical testing whilst NSMB is usually fairly sardonic in its assessments of the industry and cynical about the next big thing. That's about the only half decent magazines I can think of.
Most of the time, the industry seems to get obsessed about some in fashion metric like reach and then the reviewers end up suffering from some kind of bandwagon effect and belief bias. We are told reach is good for high speeds (I do, personally like a longer reach) but then a lot of DH riders don't get on with long reaches for fast steep tracks - so then we are told - oh it's because it helps to weight up the front on shallow tracks. People make up reasons to suit their choices.
And the comments about internet experts passing judgements? Give me a break, do some of you just blindly believe whatever bollocks journalists spout out of some kind of deference to authority? Test ride, learn what works for you, instead of letting a magazine tell you what is the best UK trail bike for you to go and piss 5k up the wall on. Someone in my family is an ex sponsored semi-pro DHer - and definitely doesn't get on with long reaches, I ride a bike with a 480mm reach - so Kimbers comment is bollocks.
And those photos do just look like that bike is too big for the rider, whether it's the 800mm bars, the saddle height, the reach, the 29er wheels or a combination of all four I'm not quite sure.
£5k is too steep for the spec and the frame. There are better bikes out there fro the money.......
