Built one up yesterday, it's feeling pretty rubbish.
I cant seem to get the bars high enough, 30mm rise bars, stem flipped for rise, 30mm of spacers.
Just feels like a heavy dull lump, isn't any more manoeuvrable than 29er fs with a mush bigger wheel base.
Wanted a fun hardtail for woodland mucking around, this is just feeling like a 90s, harsh, steep hardtail.
Picked the wrong bike?
I can't imagine that they are meant to be a bit rubbish
Rear feel high and steep, front feels really low, feels like im teetering in the front third of the bike rather than settled into the BB area.
I built up a fairly decent spec size L 275 last week and I love it.
Came from a Camber 29 and the BFe is head and shoulders better.
Super stiff. Really easy to hop and manual. I'm gonna race some enduros on it after Xmas.
How tall are you ? What size frame ? What forks ?
Fork too short? What length are you running? They are most Definitely not rubbish!
A couple of Q's.
What length forks? If they are adjustable perhaps try them a bit longer /shorter?
Also are you used to riding 29ers? No real reason for asking this except I tried my dad's KHS the other day (back to back with my Solaris). Both have 120mm forks. Both similar sizes (mine is 17.5" v his 17" frame). He has high rise bars but the front end felt really low by comparison.
I run mine at 140mm forks, 7 degree Renthal stem, 20mm bars and 15mm of spacers.
Front end feels spot on.
5ft10, riding a medium. 130mm forks.
The reach is a good 20mm shorter than im used to mind, somewhat compensated by going for a 50mm stem vs 40mm on my other bikes.
What bike did you have before?
I'm comparing to a transition smuggler and patrol.
Came from a Camber 29 and the BFe is head and shoulders better.
Heretic
The Soul was originally the hooligan hardcore hardtail, the one to get if a "normal" xc hardtail wasn't burly enough for you. Then Cotic brought out the BFe for the people who were REALLY hammering. BIIG drops, jumps, 4X, hardtail DH. All that extra strength is going to come at a cost of suppleness and liveliness.
I think Cy has said that a lot of people who don't get on with the BFe should probably on a Soul instead.
Fork sag?
Running too much makes my hardball feel pitched-over-the-barsy. It's a fine line between having too little and too much sag also IME - and more critical on a HT than on an FS - as with FS you have the rear sag to compensate and can sit deeper into the travel all round.
'Dull and heavy' might be solved with less fork rebound too. I run my HT (120mm Fox) fork rebound at the zero setting. Seems to work well for me, if a little unorthodox..
Heretic!
I loved my Camber and for what it as it was a capable bike. But there is no bike spoken about on this Forum more rediculously than the Camber range. To get them half as good as people on here say, you have to spend a fortune on them.
I run the forks hard to keep the front end up, maybe 15%
Purchased as a bike for fun, ie jumping all i can.
PS, had a camber evo, good bikes.
Sold mine (26er), felt too stiff and 'dead'. Looked the balls though. Bought a 456 evo and the difference was amazing, crazy how a little bit of flex can make such a difference on a hardtail. Ran 150mm forks on both
I dunno whether I had the same problem with mine or not....but it definitely didn't feel anything like the only other dirt jump bike I'd owned which was a DMR Trailstar. I reckon it's probably the length; you should have bought a smaller size. Also, try some 50mm rise bars; that's what I used (although my forks were set at just over 100mm). THe BB is possibly also lower than your typical dirt jump hardtail, which'll make it feel less sprightly.
5ft 8 me , I ride a medium with a 120mm fork , 60 mm stem and a low rise 720 bar . Previously ran a 150mm , fork front end popped up all over the place , also on the downs front end very capable back end ultra stiff and unable to cope with what the front soaked up . Feels a more balanced ride and easier to pop the wheels and get air. Other bikes I ride are 29ers does take me a while to adjust to the 26 wheel.
Agreed the Camber is a good bike, but not the second coming like it's made out to be on here.
I will take lines and tackle stuff on the BFe I wouldn't go near on my old Camber.
I dunno whether I had the same problem with mine or not....but it definitely didn't feel anything like the only other dirt jump bike
Maybe because a BFe isn't a dirt jump bike
Just a thought, do you have another bike set up perfect for you? If so, take a few basic measurements; Center of BB to top of seat, front or center of seat to center of stem, and front axle to center of stem. Then make sure your new bike is set up with the same. Might help to know its set up as something you know and like
Why so high on the front? I find most bikes, especially hardtails ride best with no spacers under a low or zero rise stem and 10 or 20mm rise bars. Get yer weight over the front and hang 'er out. As said above fork sag is important and you'll probably want less sag on a hardtail than you do on full sus.
Probably worth selling whilst it's still fairly new - I find once I've decided i dont like a bike it just keeps bugging me until I've changed it - sucks though when you've just spent the cash - maybe go for a 2nd hand replacement?
To get them half as good as people on here say, you have to spend a fortune on them.
Heretic x2
dropper post, rest is standard - awesome
Not rubbish, just the way they are. Compared to your other bikes the stack height will feel very low due to the relatively high BB and short forks. I liked how my Soul handled with 140mm forks but once I was spending a lot of time on my Spitfire I found it hard to adapt to, so I went for a Zero AM which is longer reach, lower BB and slacker - more in than on feeling.
You've got the wrong tool of the job. The BFE is not for mucking around in woodland. It's a much more heavy duty a and burlier machine for that.
It took me a while to get my soul dialled but now it is I just can't get out on it enough. Talk to cy about set up as cotic are super helpful and may point you in right direction
Smuggler and patrol will have longer frames reach wise, you'd notice that I would expect.
Thought mine was crap too! Sold it then the lad who bought it sold it on.
Dead as a doormouse imo.
Yup you have hit the nail firmly on the head that's exactly how mine felt (last of the 26'ers), like a 90's XC bike.
Had a rigid Reynolds tubed Claud Butler that felt similar but heavier and had the excuse of being 20 odd years older. It was like a jackhammer on your typical rocky peaks bridleways at speed, you can't jump entire trails. The BFe was nearly as bad. The level of vibration feels like your feet are going to get blasted off the pedals if your fillings don't come out first! Long travel forks don't work with the geo if you want to sit and pedal uphill either. I've ridden more extreme HT's that don't suffer the same problem because your not sat over the back axle due to the slack seat tube angle, which is made even worse by a long travel fork. Obviously if you mince round at a snails pace, avoid rocky trails with no smooth opt outs, have not ridden better bikes and/or spec and use it for a narrow range of MTB riding it's not bad.
Seems to fall between two stools and doesn't do anything well. Quality and weight are good though and the new one has improved geometry, but I reckon it's the price, look and halo effect that sells-em.
ar feel high and steep, front feels really low, feels like im teetering in the front third of the bike rather than settled into the BB area.
Just built a new 26" one up myself too (same height as you and a medium frame running a 130mm fork too), and though I am happy with the reach and the angles as its what I was expecting (slightly shorter than my other bikes, but longer than other 26" wheeled frames by a fair bit), even with "only" a 130mm Pike fitted the static BB height is enormous! I've not ridden the bike off-road yet, but a quick scoot round the car park and the bike feels like it's way too tall at the BB and you feel perched on the bike not in it.
Opportunity missed by Cotic here I feel. This was the chance to prove that 26" was as relevant today as it ever has been, and that wheel size doesn't matter half as much as decent geometry, but somebody forgot to tell them that the rest of the world is running 310mm or lower BB heights on their HT's not the 330+mm I'm measuring mine at!
Most definitely not rubbsuh, most definitely not lump like. Maybe its not the bike for you
26 version is fabulous
Didn't like mine that much; it was harsh, dull and dead to ride. The Slackline that replaced it was a much nicer bike to ride.
I have had my BFe 4 1/2 years now and it is tied for the most fun bike I have ridden, along with a mk1 Evil Sov. I have 32mm coil U-turn pikes and a generally pretty cheap build, full doors and hand me down mavic 721 wheels. I find the bike great at whatever travel I set the forks to 95_140, for more jumpy stuff I run less travel and for general riding I run 140mm.
The problem probably is that you are used to slacker bikes, you need to get used to the BFe and not just write it off. Steeper + less travel = more twitchy, which is more fun at lower speeds and harder to control at high speed.
FWIW I am 6ft and mine is a medium.
+1 less springy than a Soul but if you ride it hard it works better. The best analogy I have is that it's like some big motorbikes, such as a superstock-spec GSXR1000; it needs to be ridden hard to work properly and at slower speeds it just feels oversprung and cumbersome.
I don't think it's [i]meant[/i] to be rubbish... 😆
I had one for a bit after I broke a PP Shan, it was the wrong size if I'm honest with myself (too big) and it was a bit of a lump, unforgiving and bit a harsh, seemed built for charging into stuff rather than picking lines. Passed it on, and new owner loves it.
I've just got a new (to me) XS mk2 BFe and I love it. This is probably no help at all 😆
I have a Slackline and a mate had a Bfe. When swapping bikes it was definitely shorter, steeper more traditional geo. Both medium and 5.10 height. 140mm might help as long it doesn't go too light up the front but I think they are designed around a shorter fork. For me it may be constructed butch and burly but it needs the right angles to go with it. Can't fault the build quality but overrated for an aggro hard tail I reckon.
Horses for courses. I tried a Soul. I really couldn't see what the fuss was about. Yet countless other riders would disagree. It's the same when you swap bikes during a ride. Yours won't suit and vice versa.
If you see the BFe (26er at least) as a bigger wheeled off-road BMX you won't go far wrong. I have an XS (5'6") and it's a hoot round the woods and coped with the downhills of Wales, the Lakes and Nevis Red just fine, but as said above you have to be prepared to manhandle it a bit to 'get' it. If you just pootle around it can feel a bit sluggish and harsh.
Had a 26 Bfe, now got a 26" Slackline. Bfe frame lighter and had to put more effort in to handle it down a trail which could be seen as more fun. It was manoeuvrable and easy to throw into really tight corners but unlike the Soul the rear end just felt dead and the front end drifted out with anything more than a 130 unlike the Slackline even 160. The Slacky is more stable at speed, I can feel the rear coming round with the rest of the bike, goes round corners just as hard and generally feels both burlier and more sophisticated at its intended use.