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That is a nonsense sentence - care to try again?
edit - now edited. a bit better.....
Selfishness and the use of FPs could become linked issues if not careful. It could be regarded as selfish if you ride with inpunety with no regard to other user types or selfish if you go crap on someone elses (other riders) backyard and leave them to deal with the fall out. Discression, courtesy, diplomacy and tolerance are the order of the day with all things cheeky.
That is a nonsense sentence - care to try again?
it seems to say what I meant...
Discression, courtesy, diplomacy
had you ever met me you would realise that these characteristics are absent from my personality
simon isn't suggesting he rides "with impunity, with no regard to other user types"
for example, when i ride footpaths, i keep my speed down, and keep an eye out for walkers, for whom i will stop, get out of the way, wait, say hello, pat their dog, help with gates, etc...
Simon's probably got the same M/O
my tuppence worth:
When I go for a walk I do it to enjoy the peace and quiet of the countryside. When bikers are considerate and come past me slowly and shout a friendly warning then all is ok. When they rag past in a huge group with no greeting or thanks then I resent it.
This is something we, as mountain bikers, need to think about. As mentioned above, empathy with other users of the countryside. Who, surely, are on our side more than the hordes who prefer to drive from house to work, to shopping centre?
I'm often surprised when I ride slowly along behind walkers and shout a friendly 'excuse me' how often they jump aside, looking rather surprised. I know as a walker you often can't hear bikes coming and when they do, it can be a bit of a surprise.
So, while access laws might be a bit of an @rse, until we as mountain bikers can show we can all ride responsibly and with thought for the impact of our behaviour, then I don't think anyone will have sympathy for a 'we want to ride everywhere' campaign and cheeky riding gives them ammunition rather than bringing them onside.
On that basis I wish the CTC would stop campaigning for access to coastal paths - surely walkers can go somewhere for a bimble in peace and quiet? Equally the state Surrey Hills gets in from over use and use after heavy rain does us no favours IMO.
CTC and all the campaigners IMO need to be focussing on persuading riders to think more about our responsibilities, not our rights...
simon is suggesting he rides "with impunity, with no regard to other user types"
no I never, someone else said it ...
sorry Simon, typo - i missed the "n't" - my brain is too fast for my fingers...
(never underestimate my ability to cock something up)
I'm more than happy to share the gift of trails with people who appreciate their value. Please don't visit my area Barnes.
The way I read that is that you appreciate that your actions are likely to bring bad feeling which will be vented on approachable locals.
there is of course a simple way to avoid this:
a) never talk to the locals (they probably smell funny anyway)
b) if accosted, pretend to be French. To add authenticity, wear a stripey shirt and carry some onions. Repeat after me in your best Inspector Clouseau accent "There eez a boem in ma rrrr-oem" etc
Please don't visit my area Barnes.
I don't know where it is.
Then you didn't read my posts [which doesn't surprise me]
until we as mountain bikers can show we can all ride responsibly
but any lummox can jump on a mountain bike and go for a ride as they see fit, without magically absorbing the whole (possibly delusional) culture. And others, god help them, may consider that asserting their common law rights is the best way to uphold them, regardless of appeasing chatter elsewhere
Then you didn't read my posts
I probably did but ignored the funny name above. I respond to the argument, not the personality.
[edit] I trawled through and found "We had this situation on the Mendip recently". I missed it due to the new page. I don't even know where that is.
You don't argue, or even listen/read. You just transmit.
And name-calling is childish. But I see you edited that bit out [thank you].
You don't argue, or even listen/read. You just transmit.
actually I read it all (when I have time), but so far I haven't found the counterarguments convincing. What I don't do is speculate on the mental states of others.
And name-calling is childish. But I see you edited that bit out [thank you].
which is why I never do that either, except to people I know personally. Which bit did I edit ?
There are a few new cyclepaths that have been built close to where I live. Guess what, there full of people walking about! Standing about chatting and giving me funny looks when I ride slowly past at 2 mph.
I say ride where you want within reason, give way to people on foot and horses and smile a lot
In 16 years of mild MTBing I have only been upbraded about where I was riding twice that I remember. Both times I was on a bridleway! The 1st was the BW along the East side of Ullswater at the start of the classic lakes Loop week tour. I had the map to show the nay syares that we were allowed there. The second time was whilst doing a Trailquest on Cannock Chase. Me and my mate were stopped on a BW having a snack having just bagged a control and a 50-something dog walker laid in to us for being where we were. We were polite and pointed out that we were on a bridleway and doing an event that had the support of the various bodies that control the Chase. He wasn't to be persuaded though. He'dgot a right to walk wherever he wanted in his dogs toilet and no one else had. Me and my mate were also responsible for destroying footpaths, pulling down signs that prevented access to bikes to certain areas and running down the hundreds of walkers who are killed every year on the Chase by MTBs. TBH we then made a bit of a balls up of our argument cos when we started off again we mistook a footpath for the BW and caught up Mr Mail and so we justified his whole world view.
TBH I've had as much trouble whilst out walking as cycling with people who don't like the great unwashed having access to the wider world.
Ride where ever but ride with respect and things should be ok. I really doubt that we will ever get things changed in a big way. In someways the advent of the trail centre is a good thing. I imagine that they have taken quite a large load off the natural trails which I hope will keep the access agro for cyclists to a minimum.
If you haven't yet have a look at www.cheekytrails.co.uk as created by Dave A. I think that the ethics that Dave has put on there are to be applauded and applied by all who use Cheeky Trails.
Personally I wouldn't go for a mass trespass ride, get the location / weather wrong and you'll give the anti bikers all the ammo they need to say we shouldnt have any more rights of access. The Big Push for Access would be a better idea.
So anyway... to get back on topic (I knew there was a reason I never joined the boggies), if I want to show my support for greater access to trails, and try and improve the current situation, what do I do ? Do I join CTC, IMBA, what ? Getting involved in these sort of issues seems very complex, and it's all a bit new to me.
How do I help ?
Getting involved in these sort of issues seems very complex
intentionally so, so you exhaust yourself thinking you're doing something, when in fact you're just taking it from the Man 🙁
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All that means is that most of STW'ers do not actually ride their bikes while Ramblers are out rambling 😉
(I knew there was a reason I never joined the boggies)
you shouldn't confuse me (or my opinions) with the club, or lose sight of the fact that the club continues to thrive because it provides such excellent fun to its members :o)
All that means is that most of STW'ers do not actually ride their bikes while Ramblers are out rambling
merely conjecture. We might be hyperactive.
For what it's worth I thought Dave's article was one of the most thoughtful things I've read in some time and chimes almost exactly with my own feelings.
Where it's sensible to ride has very little in common with where it's legal to ride. I ride off piste quite a bit, and I also self-censor quite a lot. I'm a grown up.
As a little tribute to Dave I went out and did a bit of light pruning last night, trimming some overgrown paths back to useable. It wasn't much, but it was time I could have better spent actually riding. And it'll be far more use to the majority of people on foot than the occasional bike.
and I also self-censor quite a lot. I'm a grown up
so there can be no adult reasons for not self-censoring ?
That reminds me Stever, I need to get out this weekend with the shears and do a bit of 'gardening'.
SFB - I really do believe very strongly that your actions are doing harm. I am not the only one. It might be reasonable to have some consideration for others. Taking large groups out on footpaths on weekend days will antagonise the locals and alienate them. The behavour of groups like the ones you lead can undo a lot of work to build bridges and develop goodwill
Your actions would on occasion clearly breach the access code in Scotland.
SFB - I really do believe very strongly that your actions are doing harm. I am not the only one. It might be reasonable to have some consideration for others
but I'm actually there and I don't. Get over it. For that matter, most of the rides I lead only have a dozen riders or less. While some elect to choose the softly-softly endlessly-consultative route, I'm going for in-your-face assertion of our right to go around in our own country. Only time will tell which is more effective, but no right was ever conceded through timid acquiescence
Your actions would on occasion clearly breach the access code in Scotland.
except I never go to Scotland
Go for it Davey, the hollies are getting rather scratchy in the local woods.
(I do em from time to time)
Having seen the way some riders are three abreast and racon some bridleways whilst approaching walkers, I reckon that the chance of getting to use footpaths is dead in the water. I see a large number of riders who seem to treat bridleways as just an extension of trail centres, rather than teh two being entirely different.
I can't see this situation ecer being resolved, the "adrenaline RAD" element of MTBing has got so large that and out there that I'm guessing that's what MTBers are associeated with in a negatice concept when trail usage is mentioned.
The above behaviour is as unacceptable as is my early morning trail poaching, let's get that straight, my apologetic manor and politeness to go a very long way to aswaging the issue.
I suspect impeccable trail manners to other users allow an awful lot of cheeky trails to be used with virtually no conflict, and vice versa.
I'm happy with how it is manners and politeness seem to work a treat for me.
SFB - I appreciate your point but surely you can see that others strongly disagree? You are damaging the relationships between walkers and riders by your actions as many have said.
I mention the Scottish access code as it is held up as an exemplar of good practices - and some of what you do would clearly breach it.
I think you suffer from wanting you "rights" but not wanting to take on your responsibilities. same as your attitude to the Mountain rescue -
I appreciate your point but surely you can see that others strongly disagree?
as is their right
You are damaging the relationships between walkers and riders by your actions as many have said.
I find this at best unproven. Most of the walkers I see are friendly, wherever we are.
and some of what you do would clearly breach it.
but you are not the arbitrator
I think you suffer from wanting you "rights" but not wanting to take on your responsibilities. same as your attitude to the Mountain rescue
I see my responsibility as looking after the riders I'm with and making sure they have as much fun as possible, not enforcing poorly defined access conventions. A few bikes passing through is really a very minor event, and as far as I can tell usually it's only other mountain bikers who make a fuss about it.
There's a difference TJ between what you're supposing the Bogtrotters do (let's go out and ride wherever we like and screw the consequences) which I'll admit is how SFB is coming across and their actual attitude which is "let's go out and have fun, treat others as we like to be treated and just enjoy the biking"
I've only ever been riding with them on a few occasions (big group rides are not normally my thing) but there's been very few complaints other than on here when he's posted pics of the rides. In that respect I think MTBers are just as selfish as walkers sometimes. Walkers want FP's to themselves, MTBers want their local FP's to themselves - they don't generally publicise it and with good reason as Dave says in his article.
In fact, in spite of vast amounts of photographic evidence, the ride reports and the threads on here, no action was ever taken by the authorities on SFB's "trespass" on Stanage Edge.
I've only ever been riding with them on a few occasions
just as well considering your last outing :o)
no action was ever taken by the authorities on SFB's "trespass" on Stanage Edge.
and for that matter I wasn't involved in the choice of route 🙂
[i]I think you suffer from wanting you "rights" but not wanting to take on your responsibilities. same as your attitude to the Mountain rescue - [/i]
TJ, I've had 2 [u]serious[/u] accidents in all my many years of cycling. Both required a heli evacuation. That's [b]required[/b]. Not "I wanted a heli evacuation", it was [b]needed[/b].
Is my 100% record selfish? Do I have the wrong attitude?
Just curious like...
Jeez!
Lovely day out there-I'll be off exploring some new riding via a pub.
Maybe some footpaths involved....hope some of you can get out later and do the same
Is there any chance this thread could get back on track rather than degenerating into a clash-of-the-egos? It was starting to get interesting until it became all about SFB et al
It was starting to get interesting until it became all about SFB et al
I agree.
Crazy legs - no - or not necessarily - it depends on whether you were being reckless ( did not appear to be so in the recent one)
However on the thread where I questioned SFB over the use of Mountain rescue he stated
Mountain rescue and the air ambulance service (also a charity) [b]enable us to take risks[/b] in the countryside in the knowledge that help will be given if needed,
Now that to me is totally inappropriate and is not taking responsibility for his own actions.
Lets get it straight Cheeky = illegal calling it something else doesn't change what it is.Don't ride footpaths because you piss peopre off, how hard is that to comprehend? Ride on boats rupps and bridleways .That's assuming you can read an os map .Trust me it's not hard!
Cheeky = illegal
in short, no.
I agree too.
Dave has it right in the article IMHO.
[url=
Rules[/u][/url] are an excellent starting point, I don't really think (IMHO) there's any real need to get it more formal since it invariably results in arguments, NIMBY's etc. Until MTBing actually gets itself organised and gets a voice with the same amount of clout as, say, the Ramblers or the British Horse Society then nothing is going to happen. You've got Sustrans, CTC, British Cycling, IMBA all with their own slightly different agenda (cycling as transport, cycling as fun, MTB racing etc) and none of them lobbying [b]effectively[/b] for a change in the law - it needs ONE voice with a common aim.
IMHO.
[i]Don't ride footpaths because you piss peopre off, how hard is that to comprehend? [/i]
Is that really true though?! Hell, some people are pissed off if you ride BW's, RUPP's etc. There are some BW's in the Lakes and Peaks that I won't ride in peak times cos it's just not worth it, they're rammed with walkers. Much better to go and find a quiet FP miles from anywhere with no-one on it and ride that. Spread people out = LESS conflict, not more!
Don't ride footpaths because you piss peopre off, how hard is that to comprehend?
sounds like a good reason for doing it...
I see pissing off pissable-off people as a vocation
That's assuming you can read an os map
how else would we find all those "interesting" trails ?
It's people with that attitude that make me wish the hills were empty like they were 25 years ago before mountain biking became a trendy way to show off your wealth