Not really, but is this his Olympic road race replacement which will launch him to Sir Brad status in the British media?
How very dare you!!!
Bad dog
*shakes fist*
Does he not already have a pretty high status with the British media? Can't see him (or anyone) getting 'Brad like' status.
LOL...
Not sure on the media darling thing though. Brad is more 'interesting' to the media than Cav is, especially as he's been more circumspect after stages recently.
🙄
5 minutes to change title and regain some "non-tit"ground.
Cav has more wins than Brad, is one Tour win worth multiple stages to the uninitiated?
Were you not getting enough attention RD?
Cav has an interesting way of dealing with any journos who ask him questions who aren't experts on cycling - kinda sneers at them - or is that just when he loses?!
You don't help yourself do you?
Cav has more wins than Brad, is one Tour win worth multiple stages to the uninitiated?
Yup, unless Cav wins the yellow jumper he'll not be on the same level as Wiggins.
Cav has an interesting way of dealing with any journos who ask him questions who aren't experts on cycling - kinda sneers at them - or is that just when he loses?!
He's only gone off at journos who haven't put the effort in once or maybe twice that I can remember. The most famous being after the Olympics, and I really don't blame him for that, I'd of done the same.
I was going to say he looked fit as a fiddle going up Holme Moss yesterday.
Right that's it....I'm going to explode tour juice all over the place.
I'm doing Holme Moss tonight
He's over the bronchitis that kept him out of the British champs then?
Cav - points jersey in each of the grand tours plus a WC road race jersey.
Wiggins - GC jersey in one grand tour plus an IOC time trial.
Roughly right? I know I've skipped the track stuff, but for high level road riders including track wins is like including the under 21s wins. Similarly no minor tours. Though I probably should have included the classics - Cav has one I think, can't remember about Wiggins.
On that basis, Cav is the greatest current British road rider.
The greatest ever British cyclist? [url= http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_Burton ]Beryl maybe?[/url]
Cav won MSR & has a vast palmares of stage wins, I think he's under valued but then most of the people I work with can't understand why he can win 5 tour stages but not the overall
int Cav a bit past it now?
Cav has a glamour model wife as well as being very successful, surely that should put him up there with the best footballers in the British media.
Maybe it's his sock tan that's holding him back!!
He reckons he's lost his aero advantage - Kittel, Greipel, Demare and others will be up there, a lot depending on a bit of luck really. Love the way Cav manages to find his way through the riders in the last few hundred metres.
I'd hate to be up against Cav wearing the Yellow Jersey after stage one I bet he's super motivated, even more than usual if that's possible
they seem to be behind him in the Southern enclave of Yorkshire that is Harrogate
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Kittel definitely had the edge last season, Cav's not had the luck this year, interesting to see how the Tour goes. Green will be Sagan's again I reckon, sadly. I don't think Cav's too old, just that a couple of younger guys have appeared and spoiled a lot of his fun.
He certainly appears to lead more of a rockstar lifestyle than Wiggins - glamour model wife, drives an Audi R8 etc.
On that basis, Cav is the greatest current British road rider.
Potentially yes. Historically the problem has been that the British public only considered the Olympics as important and don't really understand how you can win 5 stages and finish in the bottom half of the event.
Wiggins - GC jersey in one grand tour plus an IOC time trial.Roughly right?
Not quite - Wiggins has won more races outright.
[b]Cavendish major wins[/b]
Stage races
Ster ZLM Toer (2012)
Tour of Qatar (2013)
One-day races and Classics
Milan – San Remo (2009)
Grote Scheldeprijs (2007, 2008, 2011)
Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne (2012)
National Road Race Championships
[b]Wiggins major wins[/b]
Grand Tours
Tour de France
Stage races
Herald Sun Tour (2009)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2011, 2012)
Paris–Nice (2012)
Tour de Romandie (2012)
Tour of Britain (2013)
Tour of California (2014)
One-day races and Classics
National Time Trial Championships (2009, 2010, 2014)
National Road Race Championships (2011
Not quite - Wiggins has won more races outright.
Mmmm, now that depends if you count a grand tour victory alone as a race win, or individual stages as a race win. Generally each stage is treated as a discrete 'race' in this context, ergo Cav's won more. A little bit of splitting hairs there though.
Cav did have quite a nice stripey rainbow jersey too, I think he won a race to get that...
He's won quite a few points jerseys too, it's a little unfair to say he's won less because he doesn't win GC, he's not that sort of rider.
[quote=njee20 ]Mmmm, now that depends if you count a grand tour victory alone as a race win, or individual stages as a race win. Generally each stage is treated as a discrete 'race' in this context, ergo Cav's won more. A little bit of splitting hairs there though.
Not really splitting hairs at all - each stage win counts as a win on the palmares, that's the standard way to do it. Hence Cav has won more races unless you do some convoluted thing of only counting stage race GCs.
Meanwhile, given Cav has already been SPOTY it's hard to see what could possibly raise his profile any higher than it is - he's never going to be a Wiggo.
comparing Cav with Wiggo is like comparing Mo Farah with Usain Bolt, or Chirozo with a Cumberland Sausage.
Cav did have quite a nice stripey rainbow jersey too, I think he won a race to get that...
I did notice that after I posted the list. Wikipedia obviously doesn't count it as a major win!
it's a little unfair to say he's won less because he doesn't win GC, he's not that sort of rider.
I agree. I'm just trying to point out that its a bit hard to argue one is "the best British rider". One is obviusly better at winning stage races overall, while the other is better at stage wins.
And in the context of good performance, is 9th in the Paris-Roubaix a better ride than a flat stage win in the TDF?
His mother is from Harrogate, so he is not going to disappoint.
"...launch him to Sir Brad status in the British [b]media[/b]?"
Sir who? is that the guy who trailed in the wake of http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/16303729
LOL on the thread title.
I would say Cav's record doesn't match Brads due to the Olympic successes. I would put Cav a long way ahead of Froome even if he does win the tour again.
I would put Cav a long way ahead of Froome even if he does win the tour again.
I thought we were only comparing the reputations of British riders 😆
Yellow jersey is the only Grand Tour GC jersey Cav hasn't worn too...
does that not make your colleagues idiots?but then most of the people I work with can't understand why he can win 5 tour stages but not the overall
That's not really in doubt, when asked yesterday who was PM one girl said is it Tony Blair?...no, Gordon Brown?
does that not make your colleagues idiots?
Most of my colleagues don't understand how a grand tour can have five or six seperate competitions running at the same time. But then I don't understand the rules of rugby.
It just depends what you are interestd in.
Rules of rugby? Simples. The referee was right. Whatever he said and whatever the replay might appear to show.
my comment may have sounded harsh but this isn't a knockout competition, it's a 3week long event where they actually compete over 3 weeks (as opposed to a few football matches spread out over an inordinately long 4 weeks 😉 ) so individual wins don't necessarily mean anything much at all.It just depends what you are interestd in.
I don't know much about F1 but I'd wager you could win the championship without winning a single race - or not win it after winning a few races.
not knowing about the various other competitions inside the tdf itself is fair enough i reckon
Cav is probably the the greatest sprinter ever.
A rainbow jersery, a classic and more TdF stage victories than anyone if you exclude time trials and the points jersery in each grand tour.
As a profesional cyclist he is one of the greatest of all time.
As comparable achivements Brad has won one GT and a number of second teir events that rank slightly below a classic but are still worth having. A GC winner fininshing top 10 in Paris Roubaix is a fairly remarkable achivement in this era of specialists so he is certainly A list but he isn't "the greatest" at anything or at least he hasn't sustained greatness on the road.
He does capture the British public's imagination though, partly becuase of the Olympics but mostly through being first. He was part of the early rise of track cycling from Syndey onwards, he was the first Brit to win the TdF etc.
Wiggins will always have a bigger profile in the UK due to being the first British tour winner plus the once in a lifetime event of a home Olympics a week afterwards.
However Cavendish will have the bigger profile elsewhere from cycling fans around the world who will already consider him one of the best sprinters ever, even if he wasn't to win another thing in his career.
I think one GT points jersey equals one GT GC jersey - in my mind at least.
The points boys are also rans in the GC, but generally the reverse is true too.
So different but equivalent. And these days you don't win either without a decent, dedicated team.
Edit: the vice versa also rans comment may not have applied 30-40 years ago.
So different but equivalent. And these days you don't win either without a decent, dedicated team.
Unless you start looking at stage wins - TTs and mountain stages for the GC guys, and flat stages for the points jersey guys, that puts it back in Cav's favour.
All getting a bit apples:oranges though.
I think one GT points jersey equals one GT GC jersey - in my mind at least.
Not for me but close. As for stage wins, more impressed by summit finish on an HC climb than a sprint but they're all great. Not sure that Cav's the best now but at his best he was the greatest. Sagan - now there's an awesome rider.
Sagan is the only rider from the current generation I could genuinely see winning all three jerseys (ignoring young rider here) at a grand tour. Not necessarily the same one, but I could see him becoming a real GC contender.
Yellow jersey is the only Grand Tour GC jersey Cav hasn't worn too...
Has he worn the climbers jersey in any of the GC's? Would be fairly improbable...
I'd say Cav is a more successful road cyclist than Wiggins, hard and silly to compare them, but winning all 3 major points Jerseys, for me, beats Wiggins tdf win.
Cav has dominated sprinting for a long period of time. Wiggins won the TdF just once and didn't dominate in the others he entered. I couldn't comment on his track record though.
Think Cav don't like stupid questions or people who don't listen!
from his twitter...
"Press conference for @letour. Was asked the same question, worded differently, 6times. I answered the same question, worded the same, 6times"
[quote=igm ]The points boys are also rans in the GC, but generally the reverse is true too.
So different but equivalent. And these days you don't win either without a decent, dedicated team.
Edit: the vice versa also rans comment may not have applied 30-40 years ago.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Vuelta_a_Espa%C3%B1a ]Less than 20 years ago[/url] (Rominger did the same thing 2 years earlier).
I think Jaja was the last rider to win all 3 different GT jerseys (even at different events) - Sagan definitely has a similar style of riding, though I suspect he might struggle to win the GC even at the Vuelta nowadays, as that tends to be more dominated by the GC specialists rather than the all-rounders since it moved to September. Would certainly be interesting to see him go for the Maillot a Pois, which is surely within his capabilities.
I do hope he's clean 😈
I could
see him becoming a real GC contender.
Really? Podium maybe but unless there's a really favourable course I just don't see it. Well, not unless an undetectable drug or doping method becomes available that again allows riders who are too big to win tours and he actually uses them.
I think one GT points jersey equals one GT GC jersey - in my mind at least
Not even close IMO, sprinting is a side show, GC is the Tour. Wiggins acheivements outstrips Cav's by some margin. Froomes also. It easy top be misled in this country that because we have success at something that its deemed important, sprinting, track and the Olympics come to mind.
sprinting is a side show, GC is the Tour.
Only form folk in this country who don't know better. True enough the KOM jersey has been devalued in recent years but the points jersey has always been valued and has been won by some true cycling greats. Wiggins achievements on the road while impressive have been limited to mostly the last few years and all in relation to the tour. Cav on the other hand has won stages in pretty much every tour going as well as the MSR.
Sagan is the only rider from the current generation I could genuinely see winning all three jerseys (ignoring young rider here) at a grand tour.
Sagan would be hard pushed to get Yellow or the climbers jersey I think. He is huge so would need a Wiggings-esque stick man physique to even get close on the climbs to the other GC guys/ pure climbers.
Kwiatkowski looks like a better bet as a young all rounder who could challenge for anything although he trades a little sprinting for climbing ability over someone like Sagan...
... hard pushed to think of any other young rides that match up to those two though
We'll did Holme Moss tonight, wind was brutal at the top.
Few cyclists but rammed with cars just going up and down again, closes to traffic at 6 pm Friday.
I reckon I'll be up there with the ribble on sunday
eh? would that be curious lazy people wanting to see what the top looked like?rammed with cars just going up and down again,
Sagan would be hard pushed to get Yellow or the climbers jersey I think. He is huge so would need a Wiggings-esque stick man physique to even get close on the climbs to the other GC guys/ pure climbers.
Came from mountain biking though (ie with hills - of course this makes him a great descender too 😉 ), and he's no slouch on the hills - he's not a Cav/Griepel/Kittel type 'go backwards when there's a mild slope' sort of sprinter!
[i]sprinting is a side show, GC is the Tour. [/i]Only form folk in this country who don't know better.
Might be an interesting exercise to ask a bunch of kids just starting out in the sport what their ultimate dream achievement would be.
Would more go for being the best sprinter in the world or would more prefer to win the Tour De France?
the recent canondale mtb vid suggested he could downhill.of course this makes him a great descender too
It actually [i]displayed[/i] that he could do really good skids but the DH ability was implied aswell
😉
sprinting is a side show, GC is the Tour.
Only form folk in this country who don't know better.
It's the same in Spain - the GC is the Tour. The other jerseys are a lot less important.
stage 15 2013 (Ventoux)
130. SVK SAGAN Peter 11 CANNONDALE 06h 17' 13'' + 28' 28''
that's a lot of time to make up to be a GC contender
Stage 15 2006 (Alpe d'Huez)?
stage 15 2013 (Ventoux)
When he'd been up the road for most of the day, then sat up, waited for the bunch to catch him and pulled a nice wheelie for the cameras? I'm not entirely convinced he was trying as hard as he could 😉
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I didn't say he's a GC contender, just said that given his background I could see him becoming one, if he so desired.
just said that given his background I could see him becoming one, if he so desired.
yep GC in a syringe
Spooky!
Spoiler alert!
rocketdog.. can you just pick me 6 numbers between 1 and 49
*Like ^^^
OPQS dude says no fractures, so say.
so no going home to the bosom of an ex-page 3 model?
and i thought my life was shit. 🙄
What would you do with an ex page 3 model if you DID have a busted collarbone?
Lie back and think of England?
You haven't bust a collarbone, have you... 🙂
Sorry, double post!
Still not 100% certain, but likely I guess. From Cycling News -since he's now out of the TdF
Mark Cavendish crashed out of contention in the sprint finish on stage 1 of the Tour de France with a separated shoulder.
...
A separation of the shoulder, also known as a separated acromioclavicular joint, is different to a dislocation in that it is the tearing of ligaments connecting the collarbone and shoulder blade.
Cavendish will undergo an MRI scan for further evaluation, and a decision will be made in the morning as to whether or not he will continue in the race.
Hey, Rusty, thanks for the update. I hope you are right and that he can continue.
The crash looked mighty painful if he manages to ride tomorrow let alone finish the tour I would be very surprised.
Hmm - if he's done his ACJ and it's not too bad then he may well be able to continue. Heavy strapping might be an option to try and reduce movement.
I did my ac joint in march. It bloody hurt and i was in a sling for a week, no bike for 2 months. Mine was a grade 3 tear, if Cav's is a 1 then maybe he will carry on, but it don't look good
That's a painful debilitating injury no way in my opinion to ride competitively with even a low grade version.
He's out, it's official
As reported on [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/28182383 ]BBC Sport[/url] at 09:30ish this morning.
Mark Cavendish is out of the Tour de France after he dislocated his shoulder and suffered ligament damage in a crash near the end of stage one in Yorkshire.
A huge shame that. Get well soon.