Careful taking a bike abroad!

No idea how to make a piccy link.

I’ve been on a couple of trips this summer where my bike have been transported separately by lorry and you have to fill out a declaration form showing the frame number and how long you have owned the bike, frame number etc…I guess the Spanish officials were either over zealous or the org didn’t have the full paperwork. Either way it’s crap for a chariteee ride

Bizarre, must be an over zealous official?

AKA someone doing their job as demanded by their employer.

But this made me laugh:

Some local Labour politicians expressed their support for the group.

They went on to demand a "full and immediate response explaining why these charges have been made".

It's Brexit you halfwit, FFS!

One of those 'you can get away with it until you can't get away with it'.

https://www.gov.uk/taking-goods-out-uk-temporarily

Brexit is truly amazingly crap.

Haha Spain also still trying to keep the covid scam alive with their entry requirements.
Nah I'll pass on visiting thanks.

COVID?
It's nothing to do with COVID, it's cos they are coming in from a non-EU country and "importing" high value items.

It's 100% brexit.

From the British Cycling website:

<h4>What is the status of the equipment I may be required to take with me?</h4>
Most countries have a limit on the value of goods that can be imported, known as a 'duty free allowance'. If the value of your goods exceeds this allowance, you can apply for an ATA Carnet or use a Duplicate List to avoid paying duty. Requirements for each country vary so please always check with the country you're travelling to if you're unsure of what is needed.

Carnets cannot be amended but split shipments are possible if the certificates are properly marked. This would suggest that all equipment that you intend on taking abroad should be listed on the Carnet you initially apply for. You may also apply for additional certificates, for example if you take more trips than originally planned, which would save having to pay the fee multiple times. More information on how to use an ATA Carnet can be found here.

The process for a Duplicate List is free but involves filling in additional documentation for HMRC.

so the real story here is incompetent organisers. But what really pisses me off is that nowhere in that article did the BBC point out that the Spanish officers were merely carrying out their duty under the law as it is since we voted for Brexit.

Anecdotally, it seems that you will be fine if you are travelling with your bike - it's when it's shipped separately that you are likely to have a problem.

One of those ‘you can get away with it until you can’t get away with it’.

https://www.gov.uk/taking-goods-out-uk-temporarily

Brexit is truly amazingly crap.

Yea, that was my first thought too. I guess they went over whatever threshold stops you looking like a tourist and makes you look like a busines (driving a van load of bikes I guess). In which case you'd need a carnet.

Haha Spain also still trying to keep the covid scam alive with their entry requirements.
Nah I’ll pass on visiting thanks.

🙄

So you need a Carnet to take your bike without getting an import charge? And that costs £300?

I got asked a lot of questions in Rotterdam port when they saw I had 5 bikes in my van (only 2 of us travelling). Had to explain the difference between DH bikes, ebikes etc

So you need a Carnet to take your bike without getting an import charge? And that costs £300?

You MIGHT need a carnet to take anything expensive aborad. The same rules apply to most countries, but 99% of travelers will be within the duty free limits, or customs just don't care about tourists. I've routinely had to arrange them for camera gear for example and it's an utter ballache as you have to list the serial number and place of manufacture of EVERYTHING.

Welcome to the world outside the EU.

I got asked a lot of questions in Rotterdam port when they saw I had 5 bikes in my van (only 2 of us travelling). Had to explain the difference between DH bikes, ebikes etc

I'm guessing "N+1" won't mean anything to customs staff.

I didn't go this year but group of mates annual Alps trip normally involves 8-12 folk travelling between a van + trailer with all the bikes, plus a car plus a couple of folk flying. It's situations like that I imagine will attract attention - a max of 4 folk in the van with too many (in their eyes) bikes. TBF even pre-Brexit we never got through Hull customs without the van being pulled aside and inspected!

so the real story here is incompetent organisers. But what really pisses me off is that nowhere in that article did the BBC point out that the Spanish officers were merely carrying out their duty under the law as it is since we voted for Brexit.

↑ this!

IT's a big thing with motorbike transport to Euro events... the Carnet gets bulk uploaded and split between all riders... but yes, it's a thing and it's a thing from us leaving the EU... This is nothing unusual.

I've looked into this, because we have a work trip to go and see the Tour of Flanders most years and most of the bikes go in my van with other participants in separate cars or even flying. 2023 will be the first year post-Covid and Brexit. I think the ATA carnet and Duplicate list are aimed at commercial organisations, (like bike teams, presumably why BC are giving that info) but for personal goods the process appears simpler, you do it by conduct. If there's anyone with working knowledge on this I'd appreciate some confirmation.

So that's the UK end organised. Now I need to try and find out what the French process is!

Im not dipping into the bottom of the internet to check but i guessing this will be a popular story for certain sites as it reinforces the narrative 'they hate us, they're punishing us at every opportunity, I'm glad we left' as opposed to just another downside of brexit 😩

 but for personal goods the process appears simpler, you do it by conduct.

Link doesn't work, there's a stray space in there. But anyway, declaration by conduct depends on how the 'accompanied' requirement is interpreted. So if it's your bike in your van that's fine, but less clear if it's someone else's.

You MIGHT need a carnet to take anything expensive aborad.

I remember the first days of taking laptops abroad and we had to have a letter explaining it wasn't being imported etc.

declaration by conduct depends on how the ‘accompanied’ requirement is interpreted. So if it’s your bike in your van that’s fine, but less clear if it’s someone else’s.

Hmm, OK, I'll have another look and see if I can puzzle that one out. Thanks. Better link.

Is there nowhere in Wales you can do charity bicycle rides? 😛

We're having the same issues at work - Factory in the UK, Factory in France, Test house in Holland.
We often do 'temporary exports' between the sites to borrow kit, etc.
Pre-Brexit we could ship stuff back/forth between the 3 entities overnight - no paperwork, no fuss.
Now we need a form signed by the Delft Chamber of Commerce and approx. £400 more in paperwork costs to send something to Holland for a week of testing.
The over-night journey from Tilbury to Rotterdam now needs a week in order to allow time for customs clearances.

Slow clap for all of you who voted Leave...

So the Welsh, overall, voted for Brexit and are now complaining about precisely what they voted for affecting them?

You shat in your own bed, now you get to lie in it.

Yup. Carnets have been a thing for years - pre Brexit anything going into or through of Switzerland was a complete PITA, as they weren't part of the EU, and the Swiss, being Swiss were exactly as officious about it as you might expect. (entertainment industry stuff here).

No surprise that the rest of Europe is now the same, since we decided to leave. And yes its a pain, and yes it makes the UK Touring industry much less attractive across the continent.

I was thinking about doing Sea Otter Europe again this year. Looked at the paperwork needed to avoid import duty and thought you know what, I'll pass.

I got asked a lot of questions in Rotterdam port when they saw I had 5 bikes in my van (only 2 of us travelling). Had to explain the difference between DH bikes, ebikes etc

I got asked none in Amsterdam when it was just me in the van with five bikes,only two of which were mine.
Well, apart from if I had any knives or alcohol.
Also none at Newcastle, Dunkirk or Dover.
I suspect the guy in the OP's story has just found a proper jobsworth

first thought incompetent organisers..
and confirmed..

we did a charity bike trip spain to slough in 2019, our bikes [circa 55-60] transported over by van, we did the paperwork up front.. = no problem..

So I’m driving to Spain next month, ferry to Bilbao & I’m taking the gravel bike which I bought from PlanetX in April. Do I need to provide proof of purchase?
Would I need to provide proof of purchase for the fishing gear I’m taking too? Oh, & not forgetting my spotting scope & binoculars. & Camera.

Don't forget your phone! In theory, yes, all of those things might need a carnet or some other documentation but see the link posted by @tthew. In reality if you're an obvious tourist you will probably be OK, but border officials will be within the law if they decide to charge you import duty.

You MIGHT need a carnet to take anything expensive aborad.

You DO need a carnet (if a business or organisation), it MIGHT be checked. We completed one to go to Les Gets with Cotic... weighing the toolkit was probably the weirdest bit. Nothing was checked in the end... but you can't travel for a trip like that with the "chance" that you're the group that gets stopped without the correct paperwork. Yes it's a pain in the arse, but everyday includes similar expense and bureaucracy if you're inside a small business trying to stay connected to customers outside GB. It's the new normal and it's a bit shit.

If you’re riding the bike across the border, would you need a carnet?

I’m guessing no as you don’t need one for your car taking it abroad.

I’m guessing no as you don’t need one for your car taking it abroad.

It depends, yes you might. If it's new.

In practise, proof you're bringing the car back out ASAP is all you are likely to need.

In theory, we've given away control. Border forces can always choose to fleece you or turn you back.

TL;DR

We're going to France next week with 2 bikes on our campervan.  Will we encounter any problems like this?

So the Welsh, overall, voted for Brexit and are now complaining about precisely what they voted for affecting them?

You shat in your own bed, now you get to lie in it.

52.5% of the 71% turn out of anyone in Wales who is currently 26 or older.

Roughly on par with englandshire.

While I'm happy to laugh heartily at any one of those riders if they can be proven to be a "take back control" brexiteer social media activist - it won't be all of them, and its certainly not every welshperson

I've just been to Spain via France with 3 bikes on the back of my car, and didn't get asked at either tunnel or ferry ports or Spanish border, which was unmanned as it pretty much always is....

We’re going to France next week with 2 bikes on our campervan. Will we encounter any problems like this?

No. If you take the bikes yourselves and Number of bikes is <= Number of people then no issues at all. Zero. If you have more bikes than people, maybe a question at the border. If you put 50ks worth of bikes in a van with zero paperwork... Yeah you should probably expect a question or two, and maybe a bill.

The above story is basically a non-story as its _exactly_ what you'd expect the customs people in Spain to do given the circumstances. If loading a whole load of expensive bikes into a van and driving them into the EU with the excuse 'We're planning to ride them' with no paperwork was going to get you sailing through the border unfettered, then that would make a mockery of having a customs border at all.

shouldn't this thread be renamed, careful taking a van full of bikes abroad?

So the club's bikes were transported separately in a big van, without the correct paperwork? What did they expect?

The "Unreasonable Jonny Foreigner" tone of that Conservative Broadcasting Corporation article disguises the fact that someone in that riding club effed up.

To be fair to the riding club, it is confusing, and stories of "we just got waved through" doesn't help people understand what is newly required (even if rarely checked).

A cycling club with thousands in the bank - something right fishy there to start with!!

Hang on.

You need carnets and import duty etc for anything that is being imported. That means anything that you are bringing in and is staying there. If they think you are a tourist with a bike, then it's clear that your bike isn't staying. However if they suspect that you are bringing in bikes, they will go through the import process.

We asked my Mother in Law to bring in a bike for my wife, back when they were way cheaper in the US. They didn't think she was an MTBer so they charged her import duty and said she could claim it back in 2 weeks' time when she came back through with the bike. Of course she didn't. But we paid the import duty which was nearly enough to bring the price back up to UK levels - but not quite.

In this case, Spanish officials seem to have assumed a container-load of bikes was an import.

To be fair, it wasnt a bike club who was being fined? it was two guys (i pressume) with a van full of bikes?

Shame they didnt ask where they got this van full of used bikes from, as i think its pretty common to get nicked bikes out of the country asap, like this.

We have been to Spain several times since Brexit with a van with 7 bikes and 2 adults and 3 kids and had no problems. We have been checked by Spanish customs a few times but never mentioned anything about the bikes.

You need carnets and import duty etc for anything that is being imported. That means anything that you are bringing in and is staying there.

No. A carnet shows that you are re-exporting the goods, so no import duty is to be paid.

we just came back from two weeks via the Chunnel, with four mtb's on the roof. I didnt even get stopped.

I was talking to ex-rowing mates earlier about this and this seems to be a norm for boat trailers full of boats heading to Europe. There is an insurance policy you can get or you pay a refundable large sum as long as the same stuff comes back. Rowers have in the past taken an old boats and collected a new one whilst overseas from the factory and do a swap

In this case, Spanish officials seem to have assumed a container-load of bikes was an import.

It is an import. It's just that it is very soon to be re-exported back to the same country, without any sales, or purchases, or added value occurring... so shouldn't attract duty. Paperwork declares all that.

We have been checked by Spanish customs a few times but never mentioned anything about the bikes.

Someone has to ask... do you take a ladder everywhere?

daveylad : Haha Spain also still trying to keep the covid scam alive with their entry requirements.
Nah I’ll pass on visiting thanks.

Intelligence mode disabled brexitboy?

I was talking to ex-rowing mates earlier about this and this seems to be a norm for boat trailers full of boats heading to Europe. There is an insurance policy you can get or you pay a refundable large sum as long as the same stuff comes back. Rowers have in the past taken an old boats and collected a new one whilst overseas from the factory and do a swap

I thought leisure boats and planes were exempt? Or do rowing boats not fit into that category?

You need carnets and import duty etc for anything that is being imported. That means anything that you are bringing in and is staying there.

No, a carnet is a bit of paperwork where you declare everything, it's value, serial number and place of manufacture, and then its stamped on the way in and out of the country. If there's a mismatch at either end (usually when leaving the 'foreign' country and returning to the UK) you can end up liable for the duty on any missing equipment left behind in that country, or if there's extra you didn't declare then you can get stung on re-entry to the UK.

It's specifically for NOT importing goods.

It's being overcomplicated whilst being oversimplified.

A few guys with a van full of bike looks dodgy and there should be paperwork to prove they are kosher.
A person/family with an amount of bikes should be ok as it's obviously their bikes.
It's customs doing their due diligence (job).
Same as .gov telling you you may need to prove you have enough cash to see you through so you are not going to work illegally.

Looked into this extensively when transporting motorbikes to Spain. Carnets are odd things as they don't apply to road vehicles. Basically, so long as you're travelling with the item, it's classed as your belongings and you won't need a carnet. Send them separately in a van and expect import duty, VAT and a fine for not declaring it proprly to start with. Oh and make sure they're physically clean. We're no longer classed as "clean".

@stainypants I'd be far more worried about being asked to put that velle on a weighbridge (which european plod have a nice habit of doing). GVW-ULW=sweet f-all with those things. Mine can't even carry 7 rugby-players, never mind their luggage.

benpinnick

The above story is basically a non-story as its _exactly_ what you’d expect the customs people in Spain to do given the circumstances. If loading a whole load of expensive bikes into a van and driving them into the EU with the excuse ‘We’re planning to ride them’ with no paperwork was going to get you sailing through the border unfettered, then that would make a mockery of having a customs border at all.

The story would have been of the UK customs did what they are supposed to do and they got charged import duty twice!

Carnets are odd things as they don’t apply to road vehicles. Basically, so long as you’re travelling with the item, it’s classed as your belongings and you won’t need a carnet.

Not always so. I had to have a carnet for a motorcycle i rode on a long tour going outside the eu