Idle musings of a Monday afternoon, as my current C2W thing is ending in July. I've got a Sonder Signal ST, and I really like it, but it's a bit of a lump. All the carbon hardtail options seem to racing snake kinda stuff. What's out there that's lighter enough than the Signal to make it worthwhile, but is still a modern-geometry trail kinda thing? Frame only, up to a grand-ish (a full bike would have to be a killer deal as my top limit would be £2k)
I honestly don't think there's much out there that fits this bill in carbon these days.
Was saying to someone recently, why don't PX bring back the C456 in modern 29er form?
Anyway, you'll probably have a lot more choice in aluminium, for not much extra weight.
Ibis DV9 possibly?
bit of a niche market when you have short travel FS bikes running similar weights to budget hard tail frames, then you have the actual XC race bikes, and gravel bikes. a lot of overlap covering a product for a very small number of people who might actually buy one.
bit of a niche market
Is it? Surely it's people who want a trail hardtail (of which there are many) but want it lighter than the current offerings?
66deg head angle, carbon frame, 35mm SID's, £1320, available on the Halfords cycle 2 work scheme
The only thing I don't like about the spec would be the lack of a UDH which will prevent you spending the GDP of a mid sized economy on SRAM components.
66deg head angle, carbon frame, 35mm SID's, £1320, available on the Halfords cycle 2 work scheme
The only thing I don't like about the spec would be the lack of a UDH which will prevent you spending the GDP of a mid sized economy on SRAM components.
Is it? Surely it's people who want a trail hardtail (of which there are many) but want it lighter than the current offerings?
And I'd like my bank account to be heavier. Trouble is I cant afford that.
A lighter hardtail would be nice, but most hardtails (and especially 'trail' bikes) are low to mid-ish range because you'll get more bang for your buck upgrading to a FS than a carbon frame. A nice hardtail is probably more niche now than it ever was.
They will be racers looking for XC bikes
Or more aggro riders
everyone else will hop on a full sus or be probably looking at the steel and TI options
and re the Signal, I'm not an expert BUT out of the hardtails i had, the Signal TI was by far the best...
What about a Signal Ti frame?
About 2/3 the weight of the steel frames.
Steel 29er hardtail mountain bike frame
| Weight: S: 2.91kg; M: 3.0kg; L: 3.01kg; XL: 3.02kg |
Titanium 29er hardtail mountain bike frame
| Weight: S: 1.9kg; M: 1.95kg; L: 2.0kg; XL: 2.06kg |
Do you know what the heavy bits on the Signal are? Is it definitely just the frame? I imagine the stock wheels/tyres aren't exactly lightweight.
The frame is looking like almost 3kg according to the Sonder website.
I wonder how much their new Falco weighs? It just says TBC on the website for weights.
Might be worth looking to see how many of your current bits would swap straight over onto one of those Falco frames and then get some lighter wheels/tyres along with it?
Yeah, the Signal Ti does keep calling to me...
I'd be looking at Ti TBH.
I've a Vandal, built with a Pike (150mm), light DT Swiss XC alloy wheels and middling components elsewhere. It's pretty light as it is, but if you spent a bit of money, it could get really quite light indeed. Maybe not quite carbon-light, but it wouldn't be far off, and feels a lot lighter than my Ragley BigWig.
So yeah, it's a light, modern geo, trail HT. With a shorter fork it'd be a great XC/trail bike. With a Carbon rigid fork and 2.2 Bonty XR2 tyres, it flies as a 'gravel +' bike.
Is the niche that people are just less worried about the weight of non race bikes?
This is actually a question
Is the niche that people are just less worried about the weight of non race bikes?
Yeah, but surely even if you don't want to race them, you want to pedal them uphill...
Although weight isn't irrelevant anywhere, a carbon frame is a pretty big spend to cut say 1kg over a much cheaper alloy frame for instance. Particularly if talking something like a Yeti, that weight saving could likely be achieved for less money with components.
Depending on what you're starting with, you could also spend that money on some lighter carbon wheels and lighter, faster rolling tyres and save similar weight. Except a kilo off the rotating mass and a decent reduction in rolling resistance will feel much more dramatic than a kilo of the frame weight.
@IHN you are describing my bike and its use case:
I started with a more typical XC hardtail build but its proved so capable its morphed into this now.
The Scale was always one of the racier bikes as you say UNTIL the current version - slightly overforked and with the (adjustable as standard) headset in its slacker setting this has a 66 degree head angle, and the seat tube length is about 2 inches shorter than the old ones size-for-size. I've got stumpy legs and I can still get a 150mm travel dropper in with length to spare, I could fit a new Fox or One-Up dropper in at 180mm drop probably.
This is a light bike but I absolutely razz on it - after years of riding all the usual suspect steel hardtails this one does everything they do, but lighter and faster.
“This is a light bike but I absolutely razz on it - after years of riding all the usual suspect steel hardtails this one does everything they do, but lighter and faster. ”
That’s v nice! I’d like to try something similar.
I feel like the hardtail niche has shrunk as trail and XC full-sus bikes have become better and better value - you ride a hardtail because you like how it feels, not because it’s cheaper or better in a measureable way.
And the steel hardtails have escalated - mine is way longer and slacker (and longer travel) than that and light it is not, even without any gears!
“Yeah, but surely even if you don't want to race them, you want to pedal them uphill...”
It just doesn’t make much difference - feels different (often worse downhill) but bike weight variances are a small fraction of total system weight. Tyres matter more!
I have Canyon Dude frame that needs a new home. It has the cranks and a wheel manufacturing BB but you would need a 197mm rear hub. Pretty sure its a size medium.
My mate ran his with 29r plus so it definitely run 29r wheels.
It will cost a lot less than a grand but i don't do C2W 🙂
Yeti Arc. Go on, treat yourself. Or a Ti Stanton would be quite light with the right build.
Really depends how trail biased you want to go but theres a few carbon HTs that sit between XC & trail. For example, the latest Trek Procaliber 9.X comes with 120mm forks and has a 67deg HA (Same as the Arc and only 1 degree difference from the Signal). Full build 9.5 is on at Triton for £1600....kit is just ok at that price point (deore level & Judy forks) but ripe for upgrade and not bad when the frame is £1400 RRP
Have you ruled out an On One Vandal? Ti not carbon but, ti is still decently light.
BITD I went from a steel 456 to a C456. It Solved the weight problem and was more comfortable, but it was dead to ride. Devoid of feeling and joy.
I imagine the Yeti would be great to ride though and is the only frame that springs to mind.
If you like the signal, demo the ti, I love mine. Might not be the lightest but the ride, handling and fun make it brilliant. Stanton would be the other to option, but more money!
That Voodoo Bizango Pro posted above has dropped to £1100, absolute steal, plenty of mediums but only a few large.
Blimey, thankfully the last large seems to have gone otherwise I might have been making the 400 mile round trip to collect it at that price😂
That model's been weird though, they launched it, it was MBR's hardtail of the year, but it was never in stock (well over a year?) didn't seem to sell out, just seemed like the only one in existence had been the press bike, then it was, and now it looks like they're discontinuing it? Hopefully it comes back with a similar spec (and UDH).