Grrrrr, can't decide.
On the one hand I'm no XC wippet, and prefer to play about.
On the other hand I already have a Pitch which is well beyond my skill level.
On the third hand the Pitch would probably get eaten alive by winter.
On the fourth hand I already have all the bits to build up a 456 sans headset and seatpost.
On the fith hand the only 29'er bits I need would be a rear wheel which isn't far off the cost of a headset and post. And I could sell all my 26'er wheels/forks etc.
On the 6th hand, one's carbon, the others steel, ones 'a bike for life' the others disposable (but cheeper to start with).
And no, I definately can't buy both without really anoying the missus!
Grrrrrrrrrrr............
There's no such thing as 'a bike for life'
What PP said.
Think of the longest you've ever kept a bike as it was the day you bought it - that's probably how long it needs to last.
I have a 456 ti, and it is a fantastic bike. I know somebody who rode Cwm Carn DH all day on a carbon 456 (and did the road jump (well beyond my cohonas quotient)).
But then, if you want a 29er you want a 29er....
1st bike, saracen - kept untill scrap
2nd bike carrera - kept untill scrap
3rd bike - DMR switchback - switched for a 456 which was just 'better'
4th bike - pitch
So they're averageing about 3 years, hmmmmmmm. There have been other bikes in there, but they've been either 2nd hand bought on awhim and sold again, or my sanderson singlespeed which is being sold to fund whatever comes next as a new winter bike. Owned that for 3 years, but only used for 1, hmmmmm again...........
To try and answer the OP, I've got a Pitch AND a C456.
If you like the Pitch, you'll like the 456. IMO they are pretty similar bikes.... Similar in 'character' that is.
Both are fun to ride, especially downhill, both are at the 'lower end' of their price ranges, both are fun bikes that you can rag the ass off without worrying about costly damage. Bikes to ride, not to look at, basically.
The 456 is nearly as capable in most DH situations as the Pitch, and climbs a LOT better (As it should really) but for pure downhill fun and confidence in the trickiest and rockiest and steepest and jumpyest bits, the Pitch wins hands down. I've never had a bike that takes to the air so easily and readily 🙂
I've never had a bike that takes to the air so easily and readily
Odly I find the opposite, my 18" (steel) 456 is far more lively than my Pitch. Then again I've not ridden the 456 in a while and the Pitch is getting better with time so maybe it just needs practice/technique/time to get used to the rear suspension, at the moment it just lets me get away with more mistakes rather than being significanly faster, but maybe thats in my head and the suspension just makes it feel slower.
TINAS - I don't mean 'lively' at all. For me, lively = twitchy = harder to jump if anything
I think the Pitch, being low, long and slack is just faster and more stable, weather in the air or on the floor, so it's a confidence thing I suppose. It feels stable in the air, or on bumpy stuff so I'm happier to go faster or to jump more often.
Does that make sense?
🙂
I think the 29er would be more fun for you to ride. You can use the Pitch for any big mountainy rides but the 29er would be far more fun in singletrack than a C456.
but the 29er would be far more fun in singletrack than a C456
I would most definitely question the logic to this statement!
I would say a rigid 29er would be more rewarding less dead feeling than a C456 hence more fun.
Define 'dead feeling'.....
Carbon not steel = dead 😛
Does that make sense?
Yep, much more like my experience of the two! Pitch is definately the more tallent compensating/ego massageing/boundery pushing bike.
Think I may have to keep the steel 456 and get a 29er as well at this rate 😕 The only reason for a c456 was it would sit between my steel 456 and weigh less than my singlespeed, so a singlespeed 456 would be the best of both worlds.
The 29er option was kinda the opposite direction, taking the singlespeed in an even more XC direction.
Carbon not steel = dead
Wasn't your last hardtail aluminium? 😛
Where my last HT was (Is actually, I still have it) 853 steel before the C456.......
Wasn't your last hardtail aluminium?
Nope double butted Steel 29er single speed. :oP
Thought it was a Scandal? That old Kona doesn't count.....
I had a Scandal about 2 years ago and that was Scandium and probably more forgiving than a C456. Built a GT peace 29er yesterday.
press the pause button! I have a friend with a Scandal singlespeed, an Inbred and now a c456. Once I catch up with him, you can get a concise objective view.
TBH it rather depends upon where you ride I think. For example, I take my full suss 140mm bike to Surrey Hills, and my HT to Swinley or South downs, and it flip flops between being geared and singlespeed.
I'm waiting to see what reception the On one Lurcher gets (its a swoopy 29er in carbon) because I think night riding a 29er with 16 on the hub in the Southdowns sounds like fun.
The only problem is that the wife might notice yet another 2 wheeled device in my life...
that was Scandium
Are you sure? Not all Scandals are actually scandium.
And Scandium = Aluminium with something else mixed in, I beleive. 🙂
Built a GT peace 29er yesterday
Oh dear.
I had a play on the Lurcher at Mountain Mayhem and it had the same dead feeling as the C456 but did accelerate like you wouldn't believe!
[i]singlespeed 456 would be the best of both worlds.[/i]
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
and in slightly less burly mode;
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
review I did for Brighton mtb following an upgrade from a steel 456
[url= http://brightonmtb.org/2011/06/16/on-one-456-carbon/ ]http://brightonmtb.org/2011/06/16/on-one-456-carbon/[/url]
Again, define 'dead'. You rode mine round in a circle in a field......
😉
probably more forgiving than a C456
And that. How?
Scandal is plain old Aluminium these days I think?
Have I missed something. What 29er frame are we talking about here?
Mine was the Mk1 Scandal so definitely a Scandium Alloy frame which is more forgiving than an alloy frame.
I rode yours a bit in the Quantocks too. Enough to feel a steel frame would flex more. You just need to look at the chain stays on the C456 to see its not as forgiving as nice skinny steel stays.
Dead, not flexing, no spring.
You just need to look at the chain stays on the C456 to see its not as forgiving as nice skinny steel stays
I'm guessing you are not en engineer then? 😉
I thought the general consensus about the 456 was it was a bit stiff anyway. Not like some more refined (and expensive) steel bikes.
Hmmmm.... errrrrrr....... I see your point yes.
But, using that argumemt, 'flex' robs power and limits acceleration, and casues wandering in corners, which would make a bike feel dead too, or sluggish
It certainly doesn't feel 'dead' to me. I fact, on rocky stuff, it's CERTAINLY more forgiving than my 853 Inbred, which feels brutally stiff at the rear in comparison, and skips and bounces everywhere. The C456 just seems to absorb more of the roughness.
That, to be honest, is the only real difference I can feel that I can put down to material alone. Any other difference would be geometry or componentry to my mind.
I've said it to everyone who's asked, the C456 just feels 'like a bike' to me. There's no real major differnce at all.
[img] 
[/img]
mmmmmmmmm
Mine was the Mk1 Scandal so definitely a Scandium Alloy frame which is more forgiving than an alloy frame
I wasn't sure. have you ridden an alloy Scandal to compare it with? I doubt you'd tell the difference. 🙂
Have I missed something. What 29er frame are we talking about here?
Thinking singular swift.
Mine was the Mk1 Scandal so definitely a Scandium Alloy frame which is more forgiving than an alloy frame
Pedant mode: they're both alloys, scandium is in the tubes in about a fith of the concentration of aluminium is in 'titanium' tubes, so by that argument titanium bikes are aluminium. The 1st scandal was just an aluminium alloy frame with about 0.5% scandium.
Andy, that is the ugly stick with which other ugly things are beeten!
have you ridden an alloy Scandal to compare it with
No I would like to have a go on one around a track I have ridden my old Scandal on.
rich you rode mine at bbb last year. 🙂
that is the ugly stick with which other ugly things are beeten!
😆
I Like it, all swoopy and angular
Thom just round a field though 😉
Not ridden 29 er so I can't comment on that but I'm a short ass so a 16" 29 er looks silly. I've owned 456, scandal and 853 SS frames as well as my origional non disc inbred. All were sold over the years except the inbred, it's great. Does all, feels good to ride, really nimble, which suits me, climbs, good over winter, etc. I have a Ti IF SS and if I could only keep 8 bikes would sell the IF. The On one's a keeper....as is the Pugsley, (but that's another thread).........