[Closed] Can you have too much light?

You can't have too much light, but it seems you can have too much money.... 😉

I find that just over 2000 lumens is enough to enable me to ride as fast at night as I do in the daytime, but I've made a lot of adjustments to the shape & throw of the beam patterns.
Some of these home brew lights have beam patterns with halos & hotspots that give horrible glare when used in anger.
When there is a chance of dazzling someone, I've got a special setting that turns off the spot beams & reduces the flood beam (that points down a few metres in front of the wheel) to its lowest setting & before I had that I've put my hand over the lights.
My helmet light is a strong narrow beam but easily pointed down by tilting my head a few degrees.
My future projects will be to reduce the size of my lights & batteries whilst maintaining the beam & run time rather than just blasting out more lumens.

Some folk obviously don't enjoy proper [b]night riding[/b] and need it to be daytime all the time.

pahhh!!!!!!!! I wont be happy untill all the plants are dead because my lights are so bright they'r convinced it springtime in mid January.

Just wait for that 7000lumen LED to come down in price (and power consumption) and we'll be off again, theres only been a lull because everyones bene using p7's for a while, pretty soon 900lumens wont be enough anymore.

[i]proper night riding[/i]

What do you mean by proper night riding? Is your riding in the dark any different from mine apart from the fact that I probably ride a lot more miles in the dark than you. And when I do I like to see where I'm going.

Running a troutlight at the moment which is around 2000 lumens and whilst I can't really see me needing any more light I'm not saying it won't happen when new leds come on the market and Trout offers an upgrade service.

In the dry 2000 lumens is amazing, in the wet then maybe more would be good.

You can if the rider to too selfish and arrogant to not bother turning it down when not needed and other people are about. I encountered two guys recently - I couldn't see a thing because their lights were so bright. I just said "you might be able to see, but no-one else can", to which they laughed - I did point out that I was trying to make a serious point, but fell on deaf ears.

Fair enough, when you get to the fun singletrack bit then let it have full power, but why not just turn down to a modest, unobtrusive sort of normal torch power when you are just trundling along?

To be honest I just think it is a townie attitude - their home patch is lit up with street lights and it doesn't occur to them that its just wrong to light up the countryside without need.

Votchy, you didn't injure yourself again clattering into the branches?
How are the ribs holding up?

Discussed the very thing last night and whilst 700 lumens is fantastic and great for the downhills[overkill for climbs] the thing about night is that it should be dark. The darkness /limited visability adds a bit of fun and hones the skills IMHO.
Scorched earth is not for me personally.Some people have mor elight p[ower on their bike than their car 8O.

What do you mean by proper night riding? Is your riding in the dark any different from mine apart from the fact that I probably ride a lot more miles in the dark than you

Proper night riding = riding at night
Mine is different from yours in that it is (probably) darker.

when my lot ride its limieted to 15w max and bar mounted only

night riding nazis!

when we go night riding we go to have fun! some people rock HID's and LED's other folks have pretty much candles in a box!

does it really matter?

Angle the beam to the floor and not at other riders?

They are probably blind if they need 2000 lumens!

I only need my Hope vision 1 240 lumens when I ride my road bike at speed.

I agree with Glenp / DezB. 😀

I'm happy for you if you feel the need to have things as bright as daylight, but please keep well clear of me. 🙂 Group rides can be a real nightmare now that everyone is tooling up with super-powerful LED lights. Riding solo at night I've never felt the need for more power, I run a 12w Spot / 20w Flood Lumicycle Halogen system and ride some reasonably technical stuff. However, when someone is behind you with their 'superlights' on, things can get a bit sketchy.

B.

arguably if you're dazzling other road users eg drivers you are putting yourself at more risk than riding with an appropriate light.

OTOH, I was riding home the other night on the coast cycle route (from Dawlish towards Dawlish Warren) which is tree-lined and about 1/2 a mile from the nearest street light when I saw a dim little glow worm up ahead, it turned out to be a cyclist with a vintage ever ready incandescent bulb special. Almost invisible... if his eyes were adjusted to that I must have looked like a UFO with my headmounted Joystick, barmount L&M, and two flashing hipster cysts, maybe I could be said to be dazzling in comparison, and I'd just count it as reasonable for the conditions

riding with lights that turn night to day is as stupid as riding off-road and then needing suspension to smooth out the bumps

oh

Having suspension doesn't blind other people though does it. This light stuff is getting pretty silly - someone waa on about making a 12000 lumen light in another thread.

I also saw someone say the DX bike light was ok for commuting as long as you had 2 on the bars along with another powerful light on the helmet. 😆

[i]I also saw someone say the DX bike light was ok for commuting as long as you had 2 on the bars along with another powerful light on the helmet. [/i]

are you misquoting me again, or is that someone else?
one DX, on the helmet, not 2 on the bars, it was 2 Airbike SL2s on the bars.

i thought half the fun of night riding was that you couldnt actually see properly.

VH - indeed, but it seems that some riders are confused and think the fun is if [i]other people[/i] can't see properly!

Haha no I was misquoting you AndyP. I still think that's ****ing absurd.

The very first time I went night-riding I managed to ride a DH course doing drop-offs and jumps etc with two Fenix 220 lumen torches, and I am certainly no riding god. It wasn't ideal but it was fine.

2 different point here

1 - Blinding other people is impolite. I have done it accidently with my Tesco style torch on the helmet. You don't need lots of lumens to acheive this

2 - How much light do you need to night ride? As much as you want. I ride with a single head torch and even turn that off on moon lit nights on wide paths. It the past I have ridden with home made lights with 3x50W halogen spotlights. They really gave off some heat and light until they caught fire in my garage one night.

[i]Haha no I was misquoting you AndyP. I still think that's ****ing absurd. [/i]
no worries. I still think it's necessary on my commute. Much less needed offroad, clearly. YMMV etc.

Much less needed offroad, clearly.

You'd be better off with some lights designed to be seen from all angles on the road, rather than ones that are just designed to light up the darkness and will blind people in cars.

When I commute in the dark I have just one reasonably bright cateye thing.

[i]You'd be better off with some lights designed to be seen from all angles on the road, rather than ones that are just designed to light up the darkness and will blind people in cars.[/i]
Couldn't agree more, which is why I have the setup I have. Easy to fit glowrings to most lights (plus the helmet-mounted light is perfect for side visibility), and as per the original thread, I've never blinded a person in a car.

I think really bright lights are probably dangerous on the road

Small sources of really bright light, some flashing, just look "odd" somehow to me when driving; headtorches even more as they're high up. Yes, I know they're bikes but they're so bright sometimes that I can't look directly at them, which makes judging speed of approach pretty hard (those who like to "eyeball" drivers, please bear in mind that you're potentially stopping them from looking at you).

I've said before, if I was commuting I'd shine the bright lights on ME, so that I look like a cyclist* rather than a (s)low flying jet

* (1st time for everything, right?)

[i]i thought half the fun of night riding was that you couldnt actually see properly.[/i]

Not for me, for me night riding is about being able to do the same amount of riding in winter as I do in summer. I'm happy to accept that it's different for other people though.

[i]when my lot ride its limieted to 15w max and bar mounted only[/i]

I sometimes think of joining a bike club, then read a statement like that and remember why I don't want to.

[i]I think really bright lights are probably dangerous on the road[/i]

Whats your stance on car headlights? Are they also the work of the devil in your world.

Car headlights are properly designed and regulated by law. Most offroad bike lights aren't all that great for the road because they dazzle, which they also do offroad.

Have you tried riding towards a car with full beam on?

Obviously cars can have full beam, but that isn't a fault with the design.

Jeeez. Is it pedant week?

[i]Obviously cars can have full beam, but that isn't a fault with the design.[/i]

Which can still blind people approaching. My lights have a low mode and I have a hand to cover them. Is there a difference?

How much do you put your hand over? How do you use both brakes whilst doing that? Is your light spread the same on low power? Obviously there are lots of differences that do not need to be spelt out, due to being bleedin' abundantly blatantly patently obvious.

Offroad bike lights are not designed to avoid dazzling others. Car headlights are (when operated correctly). Therefore some consideration for other people when using offroad bike lights should be used. Using a lower power setting and turning them towards the ground is a good idea.

i agree with some of the stuff said on here. i only ride with my hope 2's on full for faster, technical sections - the majority of the time they're set to low or medium probably more to save battery life more than anything but i also don't think that they need to be on full whack all of the time. they have multiple outputs for a reason.

one thing that i have noticed recently since the increase in numbers of DX's on the trails, and something that annoys me a bit, is the fact that everyone seems to ride with them on full all of the time. it's not a problem on descents because i'm ususally way in front of everyone (:wink:) but when it's just normal trails and the group is bunched if i'm in front of a couple of DX users all i can see is my flipping shaddow!

i just get on with things though, i'm not about to go and write my frustrations on an internet forum or anything...

[i]Therefore some consideration for other people when using offroad bike lights should be used.[/i]

I didn't say consideration shouldn't be shown. Obvioulsy my post is specific to me, I can ride one handed for the brief seconds I need to. But everyone is different.

how the **** can blinding a car briefly be more dangerous than not being seen? seriously?...

i have NEVER seen a driver veer into another car on full beam as a result of being dazzled...

however i most definately have seen poorly lit cyclists knocked all over the bloody road!

fullstop - masking your light (presumably you only have one) with a hand is great if you're on a country road and very few cars around. If it's busier you'd need to be able to dip it/them (preferably change the nature of the beam so that the upward spill is taken out, not just rotate it down a bit) unless you want to ride all the way with one hand on the controls

some cars have this ability in my world

If I'm solo riding at night, I use my brightest (HID) light. When I'm off-road with my buddies, or riding on the road, I take a more 'sociable' light which doesn't spoil things for eveyone else.

scaredypants yes I have one light for the very dark bits. For urban stuff I have a light on low pointed down at the road. I haven't had any complaints yet, in fact one taxi driver complimented me on how brightly lit I was.

All this 'blinding poor old car drivers' is a myth only spouted by bike riders for some reason. When I'm driving I occassionally see riders on the road with 'very bright lights', I haven't been blinded yet.

I've been in a group of riders that has brought a couple of cars to a standstill. One shouted abuse out of his window as we passed.

(I was at the back & doubt he recognised me, so I assume it was our lights that did it)

no i did recognise you and you are still a cvnt 😉

mmm thats because some drivers think they own the road and cyclists have not right to be there, and if they dare to have lights they can see the road with then that's even worse. Although I dare say a group of riders all pushing out 2000lumen each would be quite blinding.

But I don't ride in a group.

A Hope Vision2 on the bars and an Ayup on the helmet was enough to keep my night laps at the Mayhem just as quick as the daylight ones.

Last spring at the end of a night ride three of us were stopped on a street corner having a chat before going our seperate ways home. A cop car pulls up and the officer leans out of the window;
"Have you got lights on those bikes then lads?"
"Yes of course officer, there's this one, that one, this one...................." As we turned them on one by one.
He visibly winced at that, mumbled "okay lads" and drove off.

"All this 'blinding poor old car drivers' is a myth only spouted by bike riders for some reason. When I'm driving I occassionally see riders on the road with 'very bright lights', I haven't been blinded yet. "

I dont think the OP was trying to suggest the drivers were literally blinded.

But it does make seeing past the lights very difficult and judging where the approaching object is.

If the lights are flashing this is even worse as your eyes cant get use to it.

Also obviously peoples eyes are going to be different just because your arent affected doesnt mean other peoples arent.

Also quickly flashing (or strobing) lights can sometimes have a kinda strange effect on me and make me feel a bit out of sorts.

I have a nice dark commute and use a cateye abs 20n as my main light angled to light up th eground ruffly where my car lights do. I haven't had any problems with it at the moment but then its not that bright. There is a strech of road through the forest wich is closed to motor traffic at the moment and as such i tend to turn my front lights off and enjoy the darkness, the other day there were a group of roadies coming the other way with their lights on and they were what i would call blinding in fact at first i thought that they were a couple of slow moving cars. I wouldn't want to be driving in rain and come across them as stated above it makes judging how far away they are very hard. I can understand super bright lights for technical bits or under the trees, there are 2 short bits on my commute where i would like more light, but for the most time getting noticed is not a problem and you don't need 2000 lumens of power just like in the car you don't need rally night lights.

Also quickly flashing (or strobing) lights can sometimes have a kinda strange effect on me and make me feel a bit out of sorts.

Maybe you shouldn't be driving a car if you've got some sort of epileptic tendency...

[i]you don't need 2000 lumens of powe[/i]

I know I don't need them, I could manage fine on 150 lumen, but it's bloody great having 2000.

The problem is that the 1" lense on bike lights isn't as big and diffuse as a car headlamp, so 2000 lumen looks very bright to onlookers, but acceptable to the rider, wheras the same from a car on diped beams is easy to look at (and more visible) because the lights spread out.

Same problem with these new LED lights on cars, they'r pretty dim, but painfull to look at.

"Also quickly flashing (or strobing) lights can sometimes have a kinda strange effect on me and make me feel a bit out of sorts.

Maybe you shouldn't be driving a car if you've got some sort of epileptic tendency..."

I didnt say I was epileptic and how are you meant to know these affects. How often do you let your eyes adjust to the dark them let someone suddenly start flashing very bright lights in your eyes ? Not very often ?

A lot of confident drivers make the mistake of assuming that most drivers are vaguely as competent as themselves, where as this is unlikely to be the case.

I reckon most drivers will suffer from some health issue /problem that may affect their driving in someway they just wont admit it because they dont want to lose the privilege of driving.

Ie weak heart, fading vision, fading hearing, diabetic, poor spacial awareness, old age, etc etc

I've never been blinded by bike lights yet. But every bike ride I do at night and when I go running by unlit roads - I do get blinded by cars on fullbeam. I cant see bikes are much of a problem really.....

Yes. Some guy asked us for directions on a night ride the other week and his lights were so offensively bright that I couldn't think straight to tell him which trail to take.

He had two bar-mounted lights, each of which was brighter than a Lumi HID. Yikes!

Actually, you probably can have lights that are too bright.

The human eye will adapt as best it can to cope with whatever light there is, just like walking into a dark room, initially seeing nothing and then seeing better after 5 minutes.

My friend uses a USMC tactical torch with a very bright but quite narrow beam. Fabulous if you're looking within the beam but TBH, anything outside the beam is virtually invisible, as the eye just adapts to the intensity of the light and can't really cope with anything outside it.

real men use the sSsStTtTrRrRoOo0O0OoBbEE setting!