[Closed] Buying a bike - Paying by Paypal Gift?

dont - collect or meet and pay.

Er

It's mostly been covered from the buyers point of view.

I will be parting with £600, if i pay by Paypal Gift, what happens if I send the money and nothing turns up?

PayPal is a business, they want to take a cut of the transaction. If I recall correctly it's 2.4% which is £14.

For gift the Sender pays the fees*
For Normal the Buyer pays the fees*

*Depending on how the money is sourced etc.

If it's the buyer asking for PPG then offer to do normal PP but cover the fees.

More advice available £9.99 PPG only to the e-mail in my profile.

Don't do it... I use it a lot but only for amounts money that I can afford to lose.

Either pay the fees (although I don't think there's that much coverage outside of eBay) or as suggested, meet or collect.

Collecting isn't really an option, the bikes 200 miles away.

I've sold bikes before and posted them.

If the buyer is asking for ppg - id start by telling him to do one.

You are selling stuff ... Price it accordingly if you want to use paypal.

Seller: No issues with using paypal gift except that you are being a tightwad and putting off buyers.

Buyers: Its probably safer to send a bundle of £50's through the post, at least you have (someones) address this way, which you don't with Paypal gift.

Its strange people wont spend the money to protect their money. To me a few quid spent meeting is good insurance I wont loose all my money and I get to see the bike before parting with cash. I have bought bikes preloved and met before I handed over the cash.

You not seen the other threads about this?

The bike was on eBay but didnt sell (it was pick up only) I emailed the seller after the auction had finished saying would he post etc.

I have spoken to the seller a couple of times and he 'sounds' genuine. I will insist on full PayPal though, not that he was saying it had to be gift...

It was really my thoughts of what extra protection do you actually get fir using full PayPal as a buyer.

You get a fair level of protection (if seller that doesn't go out of their way to miss lead paypal during a claim) against faulty/miss described goods, and good protection against scammers where no goods exist. Note levels of protection vary depending on whether the seller is verified/has confirmed their address, I think. Which it will tell you before you pay.

Don't mention gift/fees. Its standard the seller pays, its just on here that people seem to try their luck and request gift, or that the buyer covers the fees despite the fact its saving the seller from going to cash a cheque.

Ask for a photo of the seller - if he has an eye mask and swag bag, avoid....

DrP

The address "Confirmed" is essential.
PPG: as above for tightwads or for amounts you can afford to lose. I'd Offer to pay PP fees.

why not bank transfer? because you'll have the bank details, and be able to trace the seller, that's why.

only 200 miles? go for a nice day out.

PayPal Gift warning

We strongly advise that you do not use PayPal Gift (also know as Personal Payments) as this service is intended for friends and family and does not provide the protection of standard Paypal transactions.

[i]Collecting isn't really an option, the bikes 200 miles away.[/i]

Is it worth £600 to make the journey?

And I'm guessing its s/h, what are you going to do if it's not as 'advertised'?

I've used PP FF loads on here for people I "know" no issues whatever do your research first, eBay however it's not so easy to check them out. Fees on a £600 bike will be around the £21 mark so its a small price to pay if you really want the bike.

As said 200miles isn't that far, I'd travel to view it just in case there are any hidden issues. I'd get him to meet half way if he's that keen and a genuine seller.

I cannot believe that after ALL the posts about people on here being screwed over by paying PPG that people are STILL asking if its ok to use.
Simple question, can you afford to lose £600?
Yes? Pay by PPG
No? Pay by a more secure method or go meet up.

*walks off muttering and shaking head*

Now this is going to dissagree with what most people think on here, Paypal gift is safe [b]IF[/b] you [u]pay by credit card[/u] rather than your paypal balance or debit card.

If the goods dont turn up you can do a charge back through the credit card company and get your money back (less fees).

The reason most sellers use 'gift' or 'family and friends' is that it transfers the fees on to the buyer not the seller. Its better to come with some sort of arangement with the seller where you'll pay with full paypal but you'll also pay 50% of the sellers fees.

However, the best policy will always be to collect in person.

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQW2fdzZnHnmOfiBRQPb-ykrwotW5rKnmHcl3fTyHtzKgXnLB5L [/img]

You are selling stuff ... Price it accordingly if you want to use paypal.

I dunno, I think it's reasonable to be pricing things on the basis of "this is how much I want to be left with". It's not like the people we're talking about are professional sellers, just people shifting on a few spare bits.

I've bought a fair few things by meeting up with people, pricing things to include transaction fees seems a bit less transparent.

Now this is going to dissagree with what most people think on here, Paypal gift is safe IF you pay by credit card rather than your paypal balance or debit card.

If the goods dont turn up you can do a charge back through the credit card company and get your money back (less fees).

i just assume that in the eyes of the law, youve given someone some money for nothing, a gift. yes, WE know its for a bike, but the cc company/police etc assume its a gift?

is that not the case? genuinely surprised if not.

How is it hard to price taking fees into acount?
Most people pay by Paypal nowadays.
Hmm. I want to sell my wheels for about £100. Fees and faff will probably add a bit so I'll either add a bit to the price and sell for £105 or I'll ask the buyer to cover the fees if I'm a money grabbing tightwad twunt. I'll probably post them at the end of the month when the balance is in my bank account, second class wrapped in old chip wrappers too....

Now this is going to dissagree with what most people think on here, Paypal gift is safe IF you pay by credit card rather than your paypal balance or debit card.

I'm not sure I see the point in doing paypal gift by credit card. You still end up paying transaction fees then. That seems like the worst of both worlds.

Hmm. I want to sell my wheels for about £100. Fees and faff will probably add a bit so I'll either add a bit to the price and sell for £105 or I'll ask the buyer to cover the fees if I'm a money grabbing tightwad twunt.

How is it better to sell for £105 rather than £100 and asking the buyer to cover fees?!

(And the fees on £100 are £3.73 - so being a "money grabbing tightwad twunt" would net you less money).

What I'm trying to say, and what I suspect in typical STW style you are deliberatley misunderstanding to propogate an argument is that if you actually want to realise x for an item but the fees are y why not just advertise it for sale at x+y? As in 'factor in the fees in your sale price'?
Sigh. Sometimes posting on here is like poking your fingers through the bars on the monkey cage. You know that all evidence points to you getting bitten but something inside you hopes you'll get to stroke a nice cute furry monkey. You get bitten. Only difference being a lack of H&S compliant signs on the walls. (Unlike the ones about Paypal...)

Paypal Gift isn't legally defined within the Consumer Credit Act as far as I know.

If you can prove to your credit card co that you entered into an agreement to purchase goods and paid for them with that credit card I'm pretty sure the consumer credit act will apply.

Whether you sent the money via PPG is irrelevant I think so long as you have an audit trail (i.e emails to and from the seller confirming the basis of the transaction).

What PPG doesn't give you is the Paypal protection which as far as I can tell always sides with the buyer, the seller generally gets shafted but Paypal's own protection is separate and distinct from things like the CCA.

If you read STW's warning it even suggests this '...and does not provide the protection of standard Paypal transactions.'. Says nothing about UK legal rights.

Cheers

Danny B

I just don't see how it's better to factor in the fees to your price over asking the buyer to cover the fees. Effect is the same, buyer's still covering the fees.

I'm calling troll

I just don't see how it's better to factor in the fees to your price over asking the buyer to cover the fees. Effect is the same, buyer's still covering the fees.

Man walks into shop, picks up packet of crisps that cost 50p, goes to pay shop keeper then asks him to pay 57p to cover the cost or reaching over and taking the money...

Advertise the price, offer discount for cash on collection if you want.

I bought a bike from the classifieds a month ago and paid using PayPal. The seller hadn't said anything about fees, so I paid by normal PayPal and chucked in a little extra to cover half the fees, which seemed fair to me.

Locked in a PayPal dispute now as said bike arrived in pieces and fit for the bin. PayPal gift / friends and family is plain silly if you don't know someone.

I'm calling troll

Um, well, you can if you like.

Man walks into shop, picks up packet of crisps that cost 50p, goes to pay shop keeper then asks him to pay 57p to cover the cost or reaching over and taking the money...

Fees for paying via credit card for orders under £5 (or £10) or whatever in small convenience stores are not unusual.

A mate o mine is currently looking to buy a 2nd hand bike and is pricing up the travel costs and using it as a bartering tool.

I.e Bike up for £600, travel costs =£50 so he offers £550 for bike and explains this to seller, if they don't like it he moves on to the next one.

Why anyone still faffs about with paypal trying to save £15 or whatever when they're sending £100s to a stranger beats me.

Just go and collect, if it's too far, then buy another.

Sigh. Sometimes posting on here is like poking your fingers through the bars on the monkey cage. You know that all evidence points to you getting bitten but something inside you hopes you'll get to stroke a nice cute furry monkey

Fees for paying via credit card for orders under £5 (or £10) or whatever in small convenience stores are not unusual.

I was thinking that when I was typing but normally there is a massive hand written sign...

I was thinking that when I was typing but normally there is a massive hand written sign...

True. Perhaps the clearest, and fairest, way is for people to advertise cost, and state the fee should the buyer wish to pay via PayPal.

Def go and collect it and pay cash 🙂 I drove from Cardiff to Leeds to collect a bike. It may have cost me £50-odd in fuel, but theres nothing like a good nice look over it, picking it up, prodding it, etc etc. You can always change your mind too if you're not happy.

Always good to meet fellow STW'ers in the flesh too, and you instantly get some idea on how the bike has been treated in the past. PLUS, you can avoid the dreaded potential courier horror stories.

totally agree with officaltob, drove a 700 mile round trip, but i got to see the bike, test ride it, meet the seller in person and got a much better idea of how the bike was treated. and now i have the bike of my dreams, - the guy even threw in a couple of Maxxis tyres, handlebars and a load of rock oil goodies - so totally worth it

thank you StuJenks you are a legend

cost me £100 in diesel, plus those 700 miles in depreciation though - so in that sense the Paypal/ebay fees are very reasonable for peice of mind

Danny B - exactly right.

I did say my post will dissagree with most people on here!

Paying by credit card provides you with an extra level of protection over standard paypal. In addition paypal will generally always side with the credit card companies over sellers - unfortunately this leaves huge flaws open for fraudulent buyers. The ebay forums are full of sellers being ripped off by charge back scams.

Personally I have used paypal gift in the past to buy and sell items,but I also respect the risks of doing so.

If the seller specifies the means of payment then they should bear the cost of it, as that's implicit in the request. If they don't, why should anyone assume that they're anticipating any reduction ?

We don't have traders on here ( 😆 🙄 ) so using analogies about shops is inappropriate; private sellers shouldn't be expected to fund buyer protection IMO

Personally, I'd be quite wary of paypal in any guise in future - if a dishonest buyer pays the fee and then claims that the item was undelivered or faulty, I'm likely to lose the money. If they pay by gift, we had the example the other day whereby you can still tell a lie and scam your money back (presumably this ultimately comes from the sellers account even if PP refunded it initially)

I used Paypal Gift last month to buy a bike......
I was stood next to the seller with my hands on the bars when I transfered it though (by phone).

I supposed he could have pulled a gun on me when I hit send though

[i]I've bought a fair few things by meeting up with people, pricing things to include transaction fees seems a bit less transparent.[/i]

[i]Perhaps the clearest, and fairest, way is for people to advertise cost, and state the fee should the buyer wish to pay via PayPal[/i]

Nah. The clearest and most transparent way is for the seller to price the item/barter keeping in mind the overhead of paypal. If you don't want the convenience of accepting a paypal payment, don't accept paypal and limit your market.

Whether the buyer has factored in paypal fees or not is irrelevant to the buyer, the buyer doesn't care what the seller does with the money.

Otherwise we'll end up like Canada: take pretax price on shelf, then add sales tax, then add tourist tax. Then pay for a bag.

I did say my post will dissagree with most people on here!

Not surprising if you think there's an advantage to using PP gift when paying by CC.

presumably this ultimately comes from the sellers account even if PP refunded it initially

Yep - if the money is not in your paypal ac, then paypal will put ypur account into the negative and give you a time line to payback the money. If you dont they will pass/sell on the 'debt' to a collection agency.

Im not against paypal, even though ive been stung in the past, im just more aware of the negatives now (I still use it on a regular basis).

if the money is not in your paypal ac, then paypal will put ypur account into the negative and give you a time line to payback the money. If you dont they will pass/sell on the 'debt' to a collection agency.

Though at that point they're playing with UK contract law, which has somewhat different terms to Paypal's own rules.

Man walks into shop, picks up packet of crisps that cost 50p, goes to pay shop keeper then asks him to pay 57p to cover the cost or reaching over and taking the money...

I used Paypal Gift last month to buy a bike......
I was stood next to the seller with my hands on the bars when I transfered it though (by phone).

fair enough my bad, if I ever sell owt on here again though the price advertised will be the price to pay....

I just said your analogy was bad, i thought your other line was fair - assuming I read it right

Advertise the price [i](including paypal fees)[/i], offer discount for cash on collection [i](loose the PP fees)[/i] if you want.

as a rule I don't use PPG, it's too easy to work out the cost of the fees and how much you need to send to cover them: http://www.rememberingrolbe.com/paypal.htm for example.

I've had a couple of things not turn up from forum based transactions and always got my money back through facilities that are not available to PPG users.

Sorry both wrong. The price is an invitation to treat, recieve an offer for the goods.

Under UK law, the price tag on an item displayed in a shop window (or advertised over public media) is an invitation-to-treat and not an offer of sale (the acceptance of which constitutes a contract).

Once you have agreed a price you have made a contract even if its verbal. Hence ticking the Terms and Conditions box constitutes agreement of a contract between both parties.

So to answer the question even if the seller says it includes other services such as paypal protection its all conditional upon an agreement between both parties. Thus there is no right or wrong on who pays what.

Yep Donk that was my point. All for a simple life really....

By the sounds of it the changes in postage might signal an end to the cheap small parts side of the forum.

The price is an invitation to treat, recieve an offer for the goods.

now awaits a bill from Pawsy Bear for legal advice....

IMO the buyer should pay the fees, on top of an advertised price, as its a service that exclusivly benefits the buyer.

To those that say sellers should factor it in, why couldn't a buyer do this? Like in real life auctions. Seller pays any applicable fees to have an item in an auction (or in any place to sell the item, like the classifieds), buyer pays the auction house commission on top of the final sale price.

treat paypal gift as cash, nothing more.

buyer pays the auction house commission on top of the final sale price.

The stuff I have sold at auction had the fees taken from the seller, as the auction house was doing the selling for the seller. (this was mostly animals but the principle carries though)

ha ha ha as you agreed to pay Mike via 'social media' I feel a contact has been made - invoice incoming!

IMHO if its your money you should protect it yourself by whatever means necessary at your cost. Caveat emptor, 'Let the buyer beware' is good advice

as an aside I had a contractor give me a verbal 'its fully inclusive price'. Are you sure? Does it include x and x? Oh yes fully inclusive! Ok its agreed at that price. Job done. Then invocie came in plus £10K of what was agreed. He was reminded of the conversation that we had over the phone and making a contract. I did not pay 😉

AS a seller I'd accept PP, PPG, Bank Transfer or cash on collection. If a buyer insists on PP when the others are available I don't think it's unreasonable for them to pay for [their own] peace of mind.

I.e Bike up for £600, travel costs =£50 so he offers £550 for bike and explains this to seller, if they don't like it he moves on to the next one.

that seems weird presumably a large sum, would have done cash myself PP just seems over complicated for face to face selling. Tho maybe would have taken a diminutive martial arts expert big intimidating looking bloke with me to carry the cash tho

You cover the reason why in your second sentence. PP gift is effectively the same as cash (a point which still seems lost on some) both from a security and a cost POV, so what's the downside of doing it that way? The upside is having no security worries about withdrawing and carrying around the cash. My largest ever cash purchase was £3000 for a car - would quite happily not do that again.

I paid PP gift for a unicycle - a bit less than most here are paying for a bike, but a lot more than the average man in the street would. That was to somebody I'd never met, though I'd met people who'd met him and also nearly bought the uni when he bought it from the previous seller, so knew the history. I also had my mate collecting it from his house.

You cover the reason why in your second sentence.

PP gift is effectively the same as cash

<edit>oh yeah and you can pay for it via CC something cash in hand wouldn't let you do

you can pay for it via CC

You can, but as mentioned above you'll pay fees.

You might have been joking, but I'm not - would prefer not to carry several hundred in cash, let alone several thousand.

yes those fees, what is it again
2.4%
£2.40/£100
£24/£1000
It can cost you £2.50 to use some cash machines
such a rip off....

3.4% I don't use cash machines which charge.

All a bit silly though, as it's easy to link a PP account to your bank account and so not pay fees on PP gift, at which point it's just like getting cash out of your account from a machine which doesn't charge. As discussed above, there's no obvious advantage to using a CC with PP gift.