[Closed] Building a MTB trail

A section with no pedaling and no braking.

For an hour.

Most of what you described cannot be made. You have to find the location that fits that bill. If you are looking for the right location why does it have to be called a trail center?

Admitadly most good places to ride in the UK have Trail centers cited on them.

Not sure what my point is.

What would i like. somewhere you can get to on the train or bus. I hate having to drive to ride at places.

Most of what you described cannot be made

Soma-rich - I'm talking in an ideal world, not actually about building something. Although I've ridden purpose built trails with the aspects I've mentioned - well all except for the last one as the trails I'm thinking of were in NZ.

I am just curious to understand what people would want from a purpose built trail as I don't understand why there is general dislike for them. I've ridden some trail centres which are loads better than my local trails and vice versa.

This is just up the road from me. Built with volunteer labour, council funded, 3 km climb, 5 minute descent all within a loop, three downhill trails of varied skill levels. Nice. Here is a video sample of two of the descents.

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cannock comes close on the no pedaling/braking front, with the exception of the 2 short climbs to get some elevation back theres nothing more than half crank turns or a quick dab for the last 3 sections. And the new climb rocks.

the new section -Some good climbs (technical)
its mostly level -Followed by some level bits to get my breath back
berm-tastic -Followed by some technical / non technical descents
never been to it but its there -Have to have a cafe / burger van at the end
maybe not, just woods, and clearfelled woods -Great views for some obligatory photo ops
theres the secret bits apparently -Optional loop for some hardcore riding (either climbs or super technical descents)
cant be much more local to most of the population, compared to wales and scotland, -Be on my doorstep

All its missing are some nice flowing tabletops, the kind that take a little effort to jump properly, but dont kill you if you come up short. Preferably progressing from about 2ft by 5ft with long landings designed to be taken fast and probably overjumped, to similar sized ones that you have to aim for the landings. Then upto some propper ones, but still with humped tops to make them ridable without crashing.

And why is there a fireroad decent after section 13? Come on!

As for the best trail center, im not telling you, but spending a weekend in the summer raking out some singletrack in the local woods is time well spent.

Soma-rich - I'm talking in an ideal world

Like one where you could ride ANY trail then

An uplift service that only takes 60 seconds to get you to the top followed by a 10 mile awesome descent that takes you back to the uplift service.

I don't want much

naked nubile young women waving at me from the side of the trail

smoke nailed it in one! 🙂 🙂

-Be on my doorstep

I'd second that one, definitely. Nothing like being able to go for a ride from your front door.

I'd say stuff that you wouldn't get on a non-MTB trail. So, all weather design and surfacing, built features like berms, drop-offs, wooden bits and jumps, just a bit of novelty or inventiveness really. All crammed in at a much higher density than your average English "natural" trail.

[i]So, all weather design and surfacing, built features like berms, drop-offs, wooden bits and jumps, just a bit of novelty or inventiveness really. All crammed in at a much higher density than your average English "natural" trail. [/i]

That exactly sums up what I don't like about trail centres. They feel 'fake'.

Instead of worrying about whether what you're riding over is "real" or "fake" why not just enjoy it? Just a suggestion, like. 😉

I don't enjoy it, because it feels fake.

This could be the start of a long and fruitful discussion. Or not. 🙄

I can't really explain why I don't like them, I just don't. Your list neatly summed it up in a way I hadn't before.

Similarly, I don't like reggae. Again I don't really know why, but I'm not just going to listen to it and enjoy it am I?

And smilies are the crutch of those who cannnot express themselves properly in written English.

😉

😆 😀 🙂 😐 🙁 😡 😥 😈

Lets help them out then IHN. Use the above "smilie scale" to describe trail centers.

Well it would have to be Whistler, minus Americans. Job done.

I think the problem with trail centres is that they can be very formulaic, and are liked by people whom some mountain bikers find annoying in their enthusiasm for something that they consider pedestrian. So the reggae metaphor is quite apt, really.

sofatester - the one fourth from the left beautifully sums up my indifference.

open with a long shallow climb for a km or so, as a nice warm up.
W
ho gives a toss if they feel fake? you know you can cane it around a blind corner without running into a horse (just be aware of dogs and crashed bikes)
that and the bike dosent need cleaning when you get home.

sure i wouldnt want to ride it everyday, but mandmade flowing rolling pumpable singletrack can be the best riding too.

horses for courses

i want to live somewhere where i can dig my own trail, wales backing onto woodland kind of idea

Nettles - This is the reason for putting the post up - to try to understand the grey area between purpose built and not. Surely there is a point where a purpose built trail can be enjoyed by someone who traditionally does not like riding these so called "fake trails"

Effectively what would make you enjoy a purpose built trail (not necessarily a trail centre)

I've never quite understood it but want to, as to me riding a bike is still riding a bike whether on road, hardpark, rock, chalk, roots, wood or metal.

Bushwacked
I've never quite understood it but want to, as to me riding a bike is still riding a bike whether on road, hardpark, rock, chalk, roots, wood or metal.

Surely you undertand that a steep rooty rocky descent is totally different from a road ride? It requires a totally unique skill set and the feeling of reward once mastered is much greater than say blasting down a fire road.

My ideal trail would be one that has no dog poo and a retractable roof for when it rains

Of course that is impossible we are never going to get rid of the dog poo

I remember catching a dog walker on Penmachno letting his Bitch crimp one out on a hairpin corner. Right on the Apex FFS!

Tried to say it was the "dog walker further up the trail" 👿

Sausages laced with immodium, placed around the loop should do the trick!

GNATGNAT - Of course I do, but the point I was trying to make is that the surface is immaterial as it is all about riding irrespective of the surface - just get out and have fun.

Everyone has their own level and as long as people are enjoying themselves and maybe even pushing their limits then its all good.

However, I know what you are saying as cornering on a roadbike at speed can be much harder than riding some rocky descents on a full Sus!!!

They feel 'fake'.

What an odd thing to say.

Seeking out the supposed 'authenticity' of things is a strange passtime, surely. Are you some kind of fixie riding fakenger, always looking for the most 'real' experience?

Boring, maybe. Crowded, often. Unadventurous, sure. Fake, eh?

Open your mind and look again at life, I would.

Bushwacked -
GNATGNAT - Of course I do, but the point I was trying to make is that the surface is immaterial as it is all about riding irrespective of the surface - just get out and have fun.

Everyone has their own level and as long as people are enjoying themselves and maybe even pushing their limits then its all good.

However, I know what you are saying as cornering on a roadbike at speed can be much harder than riding some rocky descents on a full Sus!!!

Im sorry Bum**** but you're talking out yer hole.

No I'm not and no need to call me that! Why get personal??

Bushwacked
No I'm not and no need to call me that! Why get personal??

If you resort to misspelling my username for mildly derogatory comic effect then I'll do likewise. And you are talking out yer hole. You've started a thread about the ideal elements of a trail or trail centre then say that the surface, type of bike and style of riding is completely irrelevant to enjoyment. Nonsense.

Molgrips - exactly - its all riding whether it is man made or not. Surely it can be enjoyed in the same way and I'd like to think that man made stuff can actually be more testing of skill but also can be designed to take in some breathtaking views.

So it really comes down to the thought that it was put there for the purpose of riding rather than horseriding or walking (both the other two "purpose built" types of trails we frequent) which stops people enjoying them

So back to my question - what would make purpose built trails the best trails to ride for those who don't like purpose built cycling trails?

GG - You are missing my point - people who ride bikes get enjoyment out of riding those bikes irrespective of the sruface - its all about the riding. Now I personally prefer rocky rooty technical riding and skateparks but I know others who prefer scenic XC rides coupled with some road riding - but when we talk about riding we can all share the enjoyment we get from riding on two wheels - irrespective of surface. I know as long as I get out on a bike even if its not on my surface of preference I am happy.

What surface is best is down to personal choice.

The original reason for the post was really to understand how people who enjoy riding off road on similar surfaces to those at purpose built venues don't enjoy those purpose built venues and what it would take to get those people seeing the purpose built trails in a different light.

[i]Are you some kind of fixie riding fakenger, always looking for the most 'real' experience?[/i]

I'm really, really not.

Maybe fake is the wrong word. Maybe 'contrived' is a better word. I like riding on roads, towpaths, rocky stuff, grassy stuff, woodsy stuff, lots of stuff. I just like riding it on stuff that was there already, rather than stuff that has been purpose built for me to ride on (and yes I know that roads and towpaths are purpose built...)

[i]Open your mind and look again at life, I would. [/i]

I shan't dignify that with a response.

Nettles - LOL!!

Wall rides are ace too. There need to be more of them.

GNARGNAR - Member

Well it would have to be Whistler, minus Americans. Job done.

And Australians.....and hundreds of people riding in pyjamas...

Maybe Gargamel though.

Endless, [i]endless[/i] miles of singletrack, through dense woodland.

Some kind of bothy, with chan marshall in it, playing guitar.

Trail centers have a purpose...people can chat on forums before and after riding, knowing that they will all share the same trail/line...and can compare experiances etc......

Whistler has 2 examples of trail centers... well.. areas of riding that are purpose built for riding.

The bike park is a phenomenal example of how to purpose build trail for bike riding and a good example of one that some people love, some people hate. Simply put though, if thats what you are looking for, theres nothing better.

If, i'm sure like most of you here, prefer to pedal and earn your ride, then the cross country trail network is possibly the perfect example of a trail centre. Every trail is accessible by riding to it from your doorstep, everything has been maintained with a view to bikes being ridden along them (I hesitate from using built as many of the trails were existing hiking, hunting and logging access trails that have been purpose adapted, not purpose built) and pretty much everything has a natural feel and has been maintained in a way that keeps the essence of riding pure.
Of course there are trails that have been purpose built. Many lovingly built by hand as well as those that make use of machine based construction and copious amounts of pea gravel. These machine built trails still serve a purpose and do have a welcome place in the Whistler trail inventory as areas that help to encourage people into mountain biking.

Anyway, love them or hate them, I believe trail centers are an important and integral part of riding culture although it'll probably be a long long time before the UK sees a trail center that gets close to the 250+kms of XC riding that Whistler has on offer. I for one hope that it does happen.

One thing that Whistler is missing, is a high alpine XC trail - So, thats what I would build if I could.
Give it a couple of years and we will see high alpine XC riding with lift support in Whistler.

Gonna have to get my butt to Whistler sometime before I pop my clogs.

get yourself to bc,canada!

There's some issues with parks in the Whistler alpine. Once you start heading out around Singing Pass you're in a protected wilderness zone, and they're pretty restrictive about the kinds of activities you can do out there.

smoke - Member

There's some issues with parks in the Whistler alpine. Once you start heading out around Singing Pass you're in a protected wilderness zone, and they're pretty restrictive about the kinds of activities you can do out there.

Absolutely, other options include heading out over towards the Cheakamus side.. or over Blackcomb way... Peak to Peak is intended to increase summer visits and I'm pretty sure we'll see the bike park activities develop on the Blackcomb side in the next few years.
Whistler Blackcomb have already guided Khybers on XC bikes... so that kind of riding is on the radar.

Do you guys in Canada have the same issues with people shunning trail centres as they are purpose built??

ah wow cove-transition-genesis like the you tube video! 🙂