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You know the way some people feel about going into a BMW dealership or similar, that's how i feel about Roadie shops... They just feel 'wrong' to me in many ways. I do get your point though, but i guess the issue with that is that i'm then going to end up spending a grand instead of £300. When the odds are VERY high that after this ride, it will end up on Ebay anyway. That's the plus side of the parkwood, it's cost me £50 in tyres and £65 for forks. But of which i'll sell for say £50 anyway after the event, so the actual outlay is minimal.
If i spend a grand on a bike, i'm looking at dropping £400 in a couple of months which does seem a bit ridiculous.
In a fit context, that's a tough one for me as i don't really know the difference between right, wrong, nearly right and really wrong. That Merida 500 felt perfect to me in the sizing context and was a 56.... but as i've learned, like with MTBs a 56 isn't just a 56, there's a bazillion variations within there that makes it different. So yes, the next bike i bought could be totally different even if the same actual size.
I have to admit, there were times on flat/slight downs he just rode away from me, be that gearing, aero, tyres, geometry, I don’t really know at all. But the difference wasn’t what I expected.
Just ask him to slow down a little bit. Sorted.
edit: oh and get some road tyres.
edit: oh and get some road tyres.
I did think about that, i rekon i'd get 28 or 32 Gatorskins on my rims if i have a go, but not sure they'd actually make that much of a difference. I missed a pair yesterday for buttons that would have been ideal for a test as they were only £15 for the pair (used obviously).
Gatorskins are horrible, why do people still use them?
Dunno... I'm not really a road kind of guy to know better.
Recommendations for something in a 28-32 range that i should look for then ?
I'd run 32mm GP5000 tubeless but your budget probably won't stretch to that (fair enough, posh tyres are stupid money)
Bontrager AW3s are an excellent allrounder, far nicer than gatorkins (and buy them from a bike shop and you get a 30 day guarantee - if you don't like them for any reason in that time then bring them back for a refund)
Budget as with all blokes/cyclists can be man-mathed to fudge it so anything is viable, hell, if i'm prepared to spend £700 on a Planext X bike, then you can bet your life a pair of tyres aren't going to cost that much 🙂
Havent used Gatorskins for about 15 years but then they were horrible slippy shite. I like Schwalbe Durano's.
You know the way some people feel about going into a BMW dealership or similar, that’s how i feel about Roadie shops…
True, but Banjo/Specilaized in Newbury are good and sell all sorts of bikes.
Yeah Banjo are my preferred store, although i'll use Rotec Cycles if i can out of respect. But obviously for road stuff it's Banjo/Spec store.
I pinged one of the lads who should have a set of 28s lying about i can throw on for some testing.
I was looking back at my testing back to back with the Parkwood and with a road bike on 25s. There wasn't THAT much difference in actual average speed. Only 0.6km/h overall, but what was noticable was that for that 0.6kmh faster, it was also 6bpm average lower too. So we could easily see 8/10bpm lower for the ride if doing the same pace... Which lets be honest, is a fairly significant difference.
Some financial uncertainty in the Monk household means I might be in the same boat Weeksy, either modifying my Trek Superfly or my Charge Plug for the Paris-Roubaix rather than getting a new bike.
I already know the Trek can feel pretty quick on the road, but have never been able to replicate the position of drop handlebars, and have spent so long on drops now that flat bars just feel uncomfortable for any lengthy ride (pins and needles etc.). Obvious solution is just to get some miles in before the big day to get used to the bars. £500 gets lighter wheels and 3T rigid forks.
Other option is to take my beloved Charge Plug singlespeed and either A) Leave it singlespeed (since the P-R course is so flat) or B) Stick a 7-speed block on the rear.
Adding gears appeals to me as I'd love to see just how versatile I can make the bike (it has the makings of an awesome gravel bike, lots of tyre clearance). I also really want to build it up with some HED Belgium + rims, they're pretty spendy but good and wide and look awesome. I'd probably also stick a suspension seatpost and maybe even suspension stem on as my back is a bit delicate these days! £500 gets wheels and gears, so would need to budget more (or use cheaper rims) to get suspension seatpost and stem...
Hmm, decisions decisions!
£500 gets lighter wheels and 3T rigid forks.
The Chinese forks i bought seem really nicely made. Sadly they sent the wrong axle for them, but they're sending the 100mm one apparently, wasn't an issue though as my RS axle fits fine. They were only £67 and no import duty... Which is just crazy cheap.
As you've gathered, i'm in the opposite boat on drops/bars.
Interestingly, my mate called me earlier. We were out on Sat, his first time outdoors on drops in 20 years. (He does use a drop bike on the turbo though) and Sunday apparently he could barely move one of his arms, completely seized up on him. Better today, but far from 100% apparently.
That's one of the things about Drops that concerns me... sure, you may get used to it...But... onlyl 'may' ?
I reckon your Trek would be ace with a set of rigids on !
You will get used to it if you actually rode it yes 🤣
Which you won’t- so don’t bother getting one 🤷🏻♂️🤣
Without a power meter, any comparison testing is highly subjective to the point of being useless really.
It’s a flat course- as you saw from Bike Calculator, weight of equipment is practically irrelevant.
Even the tyres are borderline red herring territory.
The biggest thing you can do is use the training hours you’re already doing to best effect to raise your ftp and your endurance at a high percentage of it.
The second biggest is to refine your outdoor position on whatever bike you choose. This will take time and fettling but you’ll likely be able to make some good improvements if you want to. Narrower bars and longer stem would help for example.
And the third biggest is to get some tight kit.
In the same way as dropping body weight and raising power is a gradual process of weeks and months- think of applying the same process to aero. Start off doing short intervals on the turbo with lots of recovery, then gradually up the duration and intensity until you can do large portions of a Zwift race in a tucked position.
Even if you don’t want to use tri bars out on the road, they are awesome for turbo training in a much more beneficial body position.
And the third biggest is to get some tight kit.
Can't do it... I'm just not that kind of boy. Whilst i may be happy with a jersey/jacket that's along the tightish sort of fit, i'm not a full-on lycra boy and especially not in Belgium in March that's for sure.
Stem is already longer, bars are 720ish. The problem comes when you start messing with things like that you're getting into it being a completely different bike to the one you actually set up to ride, the things you like about it end up being the things you;ve changed.
Hence why it’s a process. Little and often tweaks until you get somewhere handy.
Well i've got a pair of Vittoria somethings in a 28 arriving from a local mate. So i'm going to give them a try in my unscientific way and see what results we get. I don't know how much difference they'll make over the CX rubber, but interesting to try and see anyhow.
You’ve still got some 28mm GP4000’s too haven’t you 🤔🤣🤣
Nah, they went with the bike when i sold it on. Unless i chucked them in the loft... Assuming that's what we're talking about ? lol.
eek. They're 25s.
Rubino.
Fitted and it goes on/up etc but I'm thinking bid prefer grip, comfort and tread, along with tubeless of the WTB Cross boss
I thought you had my 28’s with the shiny side wall strips still?
There's a question, I dunno mate. I've got bike parts and tyres and stuff all over the loft, but honestly can't recall seeing them recently.
No worries if not- they don’t fit my race bike anyhow. Would be a good choice if you went 28mm road tyre that’s all..
Well, they answered my questions.
Comfort/speed, that's the question really and within 1/2 a mile I knew what the answer for me will be. I'll sacrifice speed for the increased comfort of the 35c cross boss rubber. I don't know how you guys can ride on skinny rubber, it turns it into a rattly, bumpy, feel every grain of dirt on the road torture rack.
So we're settled, the bike is ready, as long as I don't care about mismatched colours of grips, pedals and decals lol.
I'll simply have to accept in parts I either need to work harder, hide better or even just tell my mate to slow down.
Interesting experiment today, thought I'd see the difference in speed average when taking it easy. Usual route, usual hills etc.
I didn't have the HR monitor fitted so was purely using effort and breathing to gauge, if it felt like I was getting out of breath, that was too hard.
Anyway, the average speed was 21.4kph, compared to 25.2kph which I seemed to put in a lot more effort for when doing bike tests. Sure it's 4kph difference which over a days ride is an hours difference I guess, but that could be the difference between having legs and getting a train
25mm tyres are very narrow imo, 28mm are my minimum for pure road, this was confirmed this summer by using 25's on a second hand bike I bought, bloody terrifying a small difference with these sizes really does show jp in a big way. If I was doing a cobbled ride I'd use 30-34mm tyres but slicks. For example I did the White Roads Sportive on 28mm slicks one year using a roadbike and this year I used 30mm slicks on my Diverge this year.
What I'm trying to say is going from 38mm or whatever to 25mm you were always going to find them too flighty.
I just bought some 30-32mm Roubaix something like that may work better.
the CX tyres are 35s.... I may consider something 'faster' in 35s but i'm not sure it would be night and day quicker than what i have on there now in the WTB Cross Boss. It may give me 0.5kph average more, or 3-4bpm if we consider it that way, but i can't see it being the difference between cruising along and flogging my guts out.
but i can’t see it being the difference between cruising along and flogging my guts out.
Having done group road rides on the same bile with 38mmm G one all rounds and 30mm slicks I can tell you the difference is huge.
Hmmm hmmm hmmm.
Did a Zwift ride with my riding mate today, 90 mins, fairly climby.
Both on same turbos, but obviously without wind resistance and without tyre rolling stuff as both on Tacx turbo tyres.
He's older than me, so his HR tops out mid 160s. Mine is mid 180s at highest.
He averaged 125bpm for the ride, I averaged 108. Was hilly so we get a low number because of rolling downhill. But I was specifically watching his HR on the way up, him at 135 while I'm at 112 for example.
The reason I'm pointing this out is because when we did our road ride, I felt it was harder than today In a relative context of me to him. But I didn't have my HR monitor fitted.
Out on the roads I did lead a chunk of it, but is he really saving that much just by sitting on 1 persons wheel? I'm big but I'm not a double decker bus!
This really leads to 'get a road bike for it' doesn't it. Lol
I did lead a chunk of it, but is he really saving that much just by sitting on 1 persons wheel?
Yep.
Ok, interesting there too then. Bit of experimenting needed
Off the top of my head, I think the ballpark figure at ~15mph+ is rider drafting can do ~150W less for the same speed.
but is he really saving that much just by sitting on 1 persons wheel?
Yup, absolutely loads.
Off the top of my head, I think the ballpark figure at ~15mph+ is rider drafting can do ~150W less for the same speed
get the flock out of here ! Seriously ! That's a massive massive figure...
I'll be sending him out in front more often next time for it then.
Thanks all.
Not a chance!! It’s about 30% difference in a peloton. A single rider will give significantly less protection than that.
If you can get really really small, tucked into the most aero position known to man then you might save 30 watts while your man in the wind may be doing about 200. But always weather, road, bike setup differences to be factored in.
I do regular group rides with a power meter as do my riding buddies and no way on earth does the power drop by 150 watts by moving off the front.
This really leads to ‘get a road bike for it’ doesn’t it. Lol
I just think if you want to do road rides a road bike will make it more fun but you have to open your mind to it being different and not just for for a cheap planet x bargain but a bike that fits.
There's no reason the P/X bike can't fit just as well is there ? But realistically it's not going to be embraced, it will be bought, used, sold... within a fortnight. There's no world for me currently where road bikes are a thing and will be used often. It's not road riding i don't like, i have no issues with that at all, i enjoy riding on the road. It's the riding position, the stiff harsh ride, the narrow tyres etc, they all add up to a big pile of meh for me. Once you add in the fact that after a road bike ride my shoulder/neck are in bits.... Then, no, it won't open my mind i'm afraid.
Right, i'm off out to the Liverpool Palace game 🙂 thanks all.
No idea if this has been updated since, but here's an FFT vid on drafting from 2018, my ~150W saving was optimistic unless the lead rider is putting out something north of ~400W!
But even when the lead rider if two on road bikes puts out ~250W, the lead rider saves ~3W and the rider behind saves ~50W... On less aerodynamic bikes like rigid mountain bikes, I'd expect there to be more benefits for the drafting rider.
There’s no reason the P/X bike can’t fit just as well is there ? But realistically it’s not going to be embraced, it will be bought, used, sold… within a fortnight.
No reason why it cant no, but you need experience to get them set up and chosen right.
It’s the riding position, the stiff harsh ride, the narrow tyres etc, they all add up to a big pile of meh for me.
These are the things that make it fun, mtb's with slicks are shite on the road.
Once you add in the fact that after a road bike ride my shoulder/neck are in bits
See my first point and your point about harsh ride and narrow tyres etc, you sound like you are a little tense to say the least its likely to be that making you sore, once you learn to appreciate the differences and relax I'm sure itvwould get better.
you sound like you are a little tense to say the least
I think that's a reasonable assumption yes.
As a recentish (in the last 18 months) roadie, I can appreciate how awkward it can feel to begin with on a road bike. It took me several months of road riding for the neck/shoulder pain to go away. And that was with a lot of spacers under my stem!
18 months on my flexibility has massively improved (as has my fitness!) and my stem is about 4cm lower with no neck/shoulder pain. Worth persevering with in my opinion. I used to commute on an MTB with slicks, and there is no comparison to the speed, acceleration and agility of a proper road bike.
You should listen to me, I know the right bike to ride cobbles on!!
Well that was most interesting again today. Another cold one on the roads but at least it was dry mostly. Road surfaces far from dry but the sky was dry anyway.
Today we were both using Garmin's and HR data for some comparisons.
Here's a few things we picked up on today.
My recovery is both a greater chunk than his, along with being quicker.
Our climbing HR are not as different as you'd think at times
His HR sitting in my slipstream is almost identical to mine out front.
Sometimes your HR us a lot different to how it feels.
Overall conclusion though was that I don't need a new bike which is good. I still really like the Parkwood and how it rides and it chugs all Ng plenty well. His road bike out descends mine, even if he's on the hoods and I'm tucked as aero as possible, but that's a short chunk of any ride, so no biggy.
His cadence and gearing mean he's turning a much bigger gear than me, just a lot lower cadence, but I'm ok with that.
As long as we don't get carried away on the day, we'll be sweet!
https://www.sportive.com/events/gent-wevelgem-cyclo-sportive/2020-03-28/5171/cycling
Entry open and completed 🙂
Did an 80km solo ride yesterday, 1110m of elevation. I struggled a bit due to first 2 hours being into a horrible headwind and dead legs from 5 days of 300+w Zwift racing. Along with a minor mishap of taking a wrong turn and going further than I thought so didn't have any food/water lol.
Overall it was fine, but got hard work at times.
Seat comfort over 4 hours was great but hands were a bit dead at times.
Still the questions of buying a road bike in my head at times, even though it would be sold the weekend after
Entry open and completed 🙂
You doing this as well as or instead of the Tour of Flanders/RVV?
Not doing the Flanders,picked the gent wevelgem instead