[Closed] Broken carbon frame - would you accept a repair from insurer?

No experience of arguing with the insurers, but if I were in your shoes I'd be pretty miffed about it too.

I had a carbon frame repaired (by a proper carbon repairer) the repair was invisible and I could not feel any difference. So if I was not insured I would be happy getting my carbon frame repaired again. Done properly by someone who understands how a carbon frame is made will be fine.

I don't think you will feel a difference if it is done properly. Also you would only be concerned about value if you reckon you will sell it at some point. Personally I've only ever sold bikes for peanuts as I use them till they are old enough for the Antiques roadshow.

But, a repaired one is not a new one - see what they say about who they use to fix it. If you know that then you may be able to make a decision. What does the small print say about new for old ?

Would be interested to find out who your insured by?

What's the small print say - repair or replacment?

I had this a few years ago, they were pretty insistent they wanted it repaired even though I wanted it replacing. In the end I got the money it would have cost to repair it (after it'd been sent to the repair shop and assessed at their cost) and that partially paid for the new frame. I won't use those insurers again.

Would you want a brand new car rather than it repaired?

I’m with m&s insurance and pay extra for the bikes

Assuming it’s someone like carbon bike repair who’ll fix it then I’m sure it’ll be perfectly fine to ride. But given I didn’t want to be the whole summer without a bike I already bought a new one meaning I have no need for the tcr

My thoughts are even professionally repaired I’d get no more that about 350 quid for the repaired frameset, which given my excess is 100 makes zero financial sense

Would you want a brand new car rather than it repaired?

If a bit that holds the rear wheel(s) on had been snapped in a crash, probably. Yes.

what does your policy wording say? they'll sometimes be a clause about about repair as recourse and then replacement if unable / uneconomic to repair. the basis of any counter argument you have will come down to the wording of the contract of insurance you signed into - although i think your heading down a dead end with differences in ride properties - how are you going to quantify that?

speaking generally, i wouldn't have an issue with a repair if it was a recognised specialist co doing / i could choose the repairer. i've had target composites repair a couple of frames in the past and if i didn't know there had been a repair there's absolutely no way i could of told

My thoughts are even professionally repaired I’d get no more that about 350 quid for the repaired frameset, which given my excess is 100 makes zero financial sense

not sure i follow the logic - at the moment you have a broken frame which is worth nothing. for paying a £100 your get it repaired and can then re-sell at £350, a net gain of £250? depending on the sixe of the claim, i think you'd be surprised how limited a difference it will make to your premium, and if it does, just move to a different insurer. your other option is repair the frame yourself, given that it's structural damage i can't see that being any less than £4-500 upwards

Would you want a brand new car rather than it repaired?

It’s not a car though is it? If my bike gets stolen they don’t give me the current value they give me the cost of a new one. Not the same at all as car insurance as far as I can tell

Re wording - there is nothing I can see specifically. But regardless, a repair doesn’t leave me in the same position as I was previously, which is my argument

Whether it’s a valid arguement im not sure!

Asking for the money for repair would not make much financial sense given I reckon it only costs 300 quid

, i think you’d be surprised how limited a difference it will make to your premium

Last time I claimed on insurance the premium went up by about 200 quid hence my maths. Will maybe check that with them before accepting or declining any offer

If a bit that holds the rear wheel(s) on had been snapped in a crash, probably. Yes.

You're in for a surprise then if you ever have a car repaired after an accident.

It’s not a car though is it? If my bike gets stolen they don’t give me the current value they give me the cost of a new one. Not the same at all as car insurance as far as I can tell

All insurance is the same, the policy dictates the terms.

Depends on the policy wording.

I used to see damaged carbon being replaced with new by insurance, but am now seeing more repairs. Makes sense from the insurance point of view, I would imagine there are an increasing number of high value claims, and the carbon bike repair industry is becoming more mainstream.

You could request some validation of the existing manufacturers warranty post repair?

Bike industry is slowly copying automotive.

Next fun one will be used market value (especially for stolen e bikes)

Carbon bike repair have quoted 250 quid to fix, and another 150 to paint.

All will depend on how much they jack up my insurance premium really on whether it’s worth pursuing or whether I just hang it on the wall

If I was planning to keep it to ride 250 quid to fix seems a great deal tbf.

Next fun one will be used market value (especially for stolen e bikes)

I’m staggered they don’t do this already. Back in the day My mate got his 2k canyon nicked from the top of his roof rack that he’d left in his work car park. Got full value off insurance

At same time I was trying to sell my spesh enduro, same age, bought for twice as much. Got a grand for it!!😢

What's Giant's frame guarantee duration for a TCR? Shorter than the age of your now damaged frame?

Given the availability of new carbon frames right now, I'd probably take the repair as I'd be back up and riding much sooner....

What’s Giant’s frame guarantee duration for a TCR? Shorter than the age of your now damaged frame?

I’m assuming if I repair it the warranty on any other defect will no longer be valid. Was pretty surprised giant didn’t offer a crash replacement policy tbh but the lifetime warranty on defects will no longer apply

Given the availability of new carbon frames right now, I’d probably take the repair as I’d be back up and riding much sooner….

I bought another as I was going on holiday and needed a frame so timeframe not really an issue

I suppose bikes have gotten so pricey now that the insurers are approaching it like they would a car i.e offer the most economical option first, bit o a scrape to the front wing they'll send it to a body shop for repair/respray before springing for a whole new part.

The difference here is it's more akin to a structural repair so like them offering to repair your car and you insisting on a Cat S/C write off instead.

If the repair comes with a guarantee from the company carrying it out, and some form of assurance that it will be safe afterwards the only real quibble is over the value of the now repaired bike, will they understand/accept that point?

Would you want a brand new car rather than it repaired?

You don't have that choice though.

If its cheaper to repair to the required standard rather than replace, then the insurer will repair, same as they do with cars and total losses.

I know quite a few people who are quite happy having got carbon bikes repaired.

It seems to me that if you have a new frame and this one is now mostly redundant, just sell it as it is and let someone else get the repair done. Don't make the claim and keep insurance level down at renewal. If you do however intend to keep it and ride then weigh up whether its worth getting the repair via the insurance or not.

The only issue really is you bought a new frame so now getting this only fixed and not a new frame feels like a loss.

However if you had waited for them to fix it you would be back in the same position as before so would be worth it

Appreciate you didn't want to be without a bike for ages but not really the insurance companies fault you went out an bought a new frame immediately

Re wording – there is nothing I can see specifically. But regardless, a repair doesn’t leave me in the same position as I was previously, which is my argument

Surely a new frame doesn't either?

You had a used frame, if it's (properly) repaired you'll still have a used frame, you're in the same physical position as before. The value isn't what's insured, the bike/frame is.

If its replaced with new you're significantly better placed physically and since you intend to immediately resell it, quite possibly financially better too.

If they replaced it and you sold the new one, for more than its worth used, would you give the difference back to the insurance Co?

I suppose you could take the repair, use that one and sell the one you recently bought as used. That would see you back pretty much where you were 🤔

Fair points everyone, and I agree that if I actually planned to use the frame then I’d probably not be grumbling as much

Perhaps I’m a bit miffed given how much I seem to pay in various insurance and they always seem to find a way to worm out of paying up. Think I’ll just hang it on the wall rather than bother pursuing with the insurance.

Or duct tape it together, stick some old wheels on it, and chain it outside my local boozer whilst I go for a few pints and hope it’s no longer there when I get back..

The fact it will cost me 100 quid excess and they’ll ruin me at renewal time make me think it’s not worth claiming if this is all that’s on offer

Take care here. I was fleeced up to my eyeballs a few years back with something very similar...

I stood on a pair of expensive Oakleys while trying to squeeze my flabby meatsack into a wetsuit in a Cornish changing room. I thought "well, I wonder if they are covered on the house insurance" so I called them and the only way they would tell me is if I gave them the specific details of what happened. We went through it all and, no, they weren't covered.

Next year, they bumped my premiums up significantly. Reason: I'd had a "loss". Whether or not I made a claim was immaterial - I'd had a loss, and this increased my risk.

This was a few years back and, in hindsight, I should have fought it but I carried this for a few years after and I'm sure paid way, way more than the value of the value of the glasses before it fell off the bottom of the sheet.

It seems to me that if you have a new frame and this one is now mostly redundant, just sell it as it is and let someone else get the repair done.

[ahem] Still going strong 7 years later [ahem]...

Scroungers like me do kind of rely on people wanting new and shiny rather than bashed up repaired bikes. IIRC some insurers and/or manufacturers insist damaged "written off" frames get thoroughly destroyed to prevent some cowboy lashing it back together in their garage with glue and string.... 😉

Next year, they bumped my premiums up significantly. Reason: I’d had a “loss”. Whether or not I made a claim was immaterial – I’d had a loss, and this increased my risk.

This was going to be my point. Now you have had a conversation with the insurance company they will record a ‘loss’ against that policy and share it with all insurers when it comes to renewal time

This was going to be my point. Now you have had a conversation with the insurance company they will record a ‘loss’ against that policy and share it with all insurers when it comes to renewal time

I wonder if I need to declare the "loss" that I have every morning before I have a shower? Almost feels rude if I don't call them up to let them know...

More seriously, this is a real warning point with cars. If you phone your insurance to find out how much it will cost to have a bump fixed and then decide it's not worth it, and you might as well just pay to have it fixed yourself...well, you're not going to be excited by what happens at renewal time next year. It's also why you're asked to declare "...any accidents, claims or convictions..." - it's a racket, but it's common practice.

My friend has just got a crack in his £5k Factor O2 VAM. Insurer is paying for repair only to the frame. He reckons he'll only get about £1500 for it, when he sells it on.

I recall back when I broke a carbon frame, all it took was a letter from the LBS that it was not repairable and I got the money for a new frame. Can't you get a nice letter from someone?

it’s a racket, but it’s common practice.

Of all the things the insurance Cos do, its fairly reasonable.

People who have accidents (their fault or not) are more likely to have accidents. They park in broadly the same places, drive in the same areas, drive in the same manner etc. but that they paid this time doesn't mean they will next time, even relatively minor bumps can be very expensive these days.
See also the sunglasses, people who might claim for a pair of sunglasses are much more likely to claim for other stuff than someone who never thinks about claiming for anything short of their van gogh.

(also if you pay yourself, what do you do in 18 months [edit, 3 years, I'm going to regret googling that aren't I] when the other party decides they want to lodge a whiplash claim for ££££)

they’ll ruin me at renewal time make me think it’s not worth claiming if this is all that’s on offer

I once queried a flat roof repair, decided the cost wasn't that much more than the repair, and paid it myself. Insurance went up anyway, because of an "incident"

My friend has just got a crack in his £5k Factor O2 VAM. Insurer is paying for repair only to the frame. He reckons he’ll only get about £1500 for it, when he sells it on.

But if he doesn't sell it on he has had no loss and his bike still works perfectly because it has had a professional and guarenteed repair

But if he doesn’t sell it on he has had no loss and his bike still works perfectly because it has had a professional and guarenteed repair

Get out of here with your common sense

Get out of here with your common sense

Indeed, I often read these sorts of comments (see every thread on standards ever) and wonder who buys a bike as an investment, not only that they then ride it.

But if he doesn’t sell it on he has had no loss and his bike still works perfectly because it has had a professional and guarenteed repair

Let's be honest plenty of people see the world in terms of financial cost term before most other metrics of 'value', which is fine and would be the logical reasoning for going via insurance to put you back in your pre-incident position (in terms of asset worth).

But how fast/easy is it to lay your hands on a new bike/frame these days? I'm assuming various shortages persist? The lead time on getting a new frame assembled into a bike Vs the turnaround on a repair might be the difference between riding it this summer and not throwing a leg over it until autumn (speculation). There is 'value' in having a bike available to use sooner too.

and wonder who buys a bike as an investment, not only that they then ride it.

Never work with an accountant, everything has a monetary value that will need to be realised after it's finished with. Utterly soul destroying.

Never work with an accountant, everything has a monetary value that will need to be realised after it’s finished with. Utterly soul destroying.

Meh, different strokes for different folks and all that. If people want to maximize the value of their assets and that brings them some measure of enjoyment then so be it.

My question is really does the repair gain the OP more time on a functional bike, and if so does that add any 'value' to the equation? or do they simply want to be back in the position of having the highest residual value possible for their bike? If it's the former then it's a waste if an insurance claim (but the enquiry is in the record now) if it's the latter then push for a new frame, if it's going to bump your premium you may as well get the most you can from it. As said before see if the LBS will provide a negative assessment to back up your demand...

A few years ago I fell off my carbon road bike on black ice. The insurance Co. immediately jumped to 'replace all' due to the 'unseen damage'. The frame was unmarked and I had to sign a liability waiver to keep it and just have the damaged components changed.

"I've just had £5k of accident repairs done to my car, but that might reduce the value when I trade it in....." is not a conversation that we ever seem to have.

Has it been repaired safely? Is the insurer/repairer liable if the repair fails? Doesn't matter if it's a bike or car or an aeroplane.

But if he doesn’t sell it on he has had no loss and his bike still works perfectly because it has had a professional and guarenteed repair

Fair enough, but the repair lead time is 13 weeks (i.e all summer) so he has had to buy another frame in the meantime to do the events he has planned this summer. Pretty similar situation to the OP really. But even more out of pocket.

intheborders
Free Member
Would you want a brand new car rather than it repaired?

This argument, or any comparing a bike frame issue to a damaged car, is an unfair analogy.
When a damaged car is repaired, the damaged parts are replaced with new ones, they don't repair the components. Secondly, any considerable damage to the Monocoque/Unibody/chassis of a car (which is a fair equivalent of a bike's frame) would see the entire vehicle written off.

If you were getting a plastic bike fixed you might ask:

http://carbonbikerepair.com.au/carbon-bike-repair/10-questions

I recall back when I broke a carbon frame, all it took was a letter from the LBS that it was not repairable and I got the money for a new frame. Can’t you get a nice letter from someone?

As said before see if the LBS will provide a negative assessment to back up your demand…

The insurance company will not care about a LBS assessment, they have their approved carbon repair workshops now (LBS assessment used to be fine, then they moved to dealing with Wheelies etc, now carbon repair)

Just like the car insurance industry.

I suspect the next thing will be market value paid on stolen bikes or total loss. (unless you insure new for old or agreed value)

I am curious as most bike manufacturers warranty would be void after a carbon frame repair. Whereas cars can be repaired at an dealer or approved body shop. It could be worth asking for confirmation in writing of the warranty situation? (from insurance and manufacturer).

I’m not sure a repaired frame constitutes a like for like replacement.

Was the policy wording like for like replacement, or did it give the insurance company the option to repair?

My friend has just got a crack in his £5k Factor O2 VAM. Insurer is paying for repair only to the frame. He reckons he’ll only get about £1500 for it, when he sells it on.

More likely as it's a not very well known brand than the fact it's been repaired. I ride a couple of KTM's a road bike and a 29er FS, I've also sold a few in the past that I've owned - not cracked or repaired - and their 2nd hand market value is shite as it's not a mainstream brand.

But if he doesn’t sell it on he has had no loss and his bike still works perfectly because it has had a professional and guarenteed repair

I assume also that the repaired frame will be resprayed too so the repair will be barely noticeable

More likely as it’s a not very well known brand than the fact it’s been repaired. I ride a couple of KTM’s a road bike and a 29er FS, I’ve also sold a few in the past that I’ve owned

Factor are a well known premium road bike brand who sponsor a world tour team.

Factor are a well known premium road bike brand who sponsor a world tour team.

Even at that though, I'd wager the 2nd hand value is significantly lower than that of a trek, giant or specialized because there is that much less brand awareness.

For example I'm not an avid roadie but nor am I completely unaware of the world of bikes and for my part I'd say factor are a small niche brand. I'd think of them as like a roadie version of nicolai. Certainly the chance of non roadie me going looking for 2nd hand a factor as a new bike are very low. The chances non roadie me would be looking to spend enough to make "only 1500" a relevant statement [so I'm guessing 3-4k without the repair?] on a 2nd hand one as opposed to just walking into a shop and stumping up for a new one (you're well into high disposable income at that price bracket and that means fewer folk worried about looking for a bargain) are close to zero.

I think when selling a 5 k bike your market is probably not ‘non roadies’ tbf. Either way, the broken frame will hurt market value far more than the name will. The tcr is a well known make, and I reckon I could sell it for about half what they are going for on eBay when it’s fixed

Anyways, lesson learned about the fact they will up my premium now even if I don’t claim. Was not aware of that I must say.

The tcr is a well known make, and I reckon I could sell it for about half what they are going for on eBay when it’s fixed

Yep, certainly the tcr isn't from a niche "who" brand.
So far as half the ebay price I've seen enough on ebay to know that could still be more than rrp. Especially if you get the repair done in a weird colour and sell it as a unique custom frame. Preferably with triple crown forks.

Especially if you get the repair done in a weird colour and sell it as a unique custom frame. Preferably with triple crown forks.

😂

Yep, if you can get a reputable bike shop to write it off in writing, it will go a long way to pressing them for a full payout. Happened to me with no further questions asked, yer 'onour...

Speaking as a fully committed fashion victim Roadie I would say a Factor is considerably more desirable than any major commercial brand and a used frame would attract a premium price as a result. And I ride a Cannondale.

No way I would be accepting a repair to a carbon frame as an insurance solution. Particularly not to a high end road frame.

I would never ever knowingly buy a frame that had been cracked and repaired. Not even if it was cheap.