[Closed] biker bashing over on money saving expert forum!!

The usual road tax argument. Scares me to think that people want to knock someone off!

See this is the effect that jumping red lights have RE: previous rants and posts. So even if cyclists jump the lights and feel it safe and not a problem you get jerks like those who start to lothe all cyclists and then drive like prats! So it ends up carnage whereby cyclists who obey the law and HC get tarred with the same brush - pee's me off as I never jump Reds!

Isn't this whole traffic light debate caused by HM Government?

Until very recently they wouldn't let councils setup "green wave" traffic lights as cars (and bikes) stopping less often at red lights would have reduced the revenue from tax on petrol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998182.stm

Road rage, alive and kicking!!
People need to relax. Yes running a red light is wrong for everyone, but a bike in the wrong will do a lot less damage than two tonnes of urban SUV running a red light.

And yes it is worrying with the 'run 'em down' attitudes.

Yes and I heard that rape victims wearing short skirts were asking for it. 🙄

I read that, and many of the posts made me quite cross. I was going to respond, and the I remembered this: http://xkcd.com/386/
There are a lot of stupid people in the world, and many of them drive cars, read the Daily Mail and post on Moneysavingexpert. Just keep your eyes open for them when you are riding.

THe OP there is a gimp that needs hit with a huge ball of shit.

I see they are pulling the lience one over there forgetting that a car is extremly dangoures in the worng hands where as a bike can't do that much damge if you don't know how to ride it.

I think the OP is exactly right: Bikers should not run red lights and if they do they deserve everything they get.

From what I can see the OP in that thread is getting a bit of a bashing from others anyway. He'd better not get involved in an accident involving a cyclist now he's said he'd like to 'run one down' mind. 😆

im going to deliberately run a red light today.

I would hate to be banned from cycling for my indiscreasance. 🙂

I expect the OP goes down the pub every night and has a few fisty cuffs with the locals and then takes off dragging his knuckles on the ground as he walks 🙂

im going to deliberately run a red light today

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!

I had to add my 2ps worth.

im only gonna burn the heretic if he trys to engulf me in a cloud of diesel smoke

"I think the OP is exactly right: Bikers should not run red lights and if they do they deserve everything they get."

Such as being deliberately run over and killed? Whilst I don't think we should run red lights, I worry about your sense of perspective.

"I think the OP is exactly right: Bikers should not run red lights and if they do they deserve everything they get."

I think that sounds like a deliberate Troll to me IMHO!

I can't actually remember the last time I saw a cyclist RLJ on my commute if I'm honest... (Bristol)

There should be a rule to allow us to turn left on a red provided it's safe.....and won't scare the sh*t out of any car drivers.

...and what's wrong with getting off, walking the bike across a pedestrian crossing & gettign back once you're over???? Can't see anything wrong with that at all.

As I mentioned when this last came up on the work NG, I actually see more motor vehicles jumping red lights than I do cyclists.

I do actually regularly jump a red light myself - but whilst that might still give the wrong impression, it is totally legal.

GaryLake - To be fair though there's noone left with a bike in Bristol with all those thefts 😉

"I think the OP is exactly right: Bikers should not run red lights and if they do they deserve everything they get."

I think that sounds like a deliberate Troll to me IMHO!

No, it is not a deliberate troll: So you think cyclists should deliberately run red lights do you? While I obviously don't agree with the sentiment about deliberately running cyclists over (I ride a road bike alot, by the way), I can understand the frustration.

aracer - Member
I do actually regularly jump a red light myself - but whilst that might still give the wrong impression, it is totally legal.

How is it legal? you can get off and walk across but that isn't jumping them.

Never understood people, cyclist or driver, who couldn't wait at a red light for a few minutes, at most. The alternative choice being to risk life and limb.

Anyway, there'll never be a consensus, there'll always be those cyclists who know that the rules do not apply to them and that they can ride through a red. Its just part of the Human-Condition.

I don't do it myself, but see it a lot and just wish they wouldn't. But I don't lose any sleep over it.

Solo.

how so?

How is it legal?

LOL at [url= http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=24009121&postcount=59 ]post 59[/url]

Out of 10-15 sets of lights on my commute, I normally jump a couple. One I can think of controls a deliberate choke point on a bus-only road in the city centre. It's not wide enough for two vehicles to fit through, but a bike and a bus can get through at the same time no problem. There's also seldom any traffic on that bit of road at all. The idea that jumping a red light = automatic 6 car pile-up is just ridiculous.

I think part of the problem is traffic planners failing to consider other users (both cyclists and pedestrians), which can make for a very tortuous journey if you don't take the odd liberty. There comes a point where you have so many restrictions to negotiate which are clearly aimed at dealing with the problems caused by cars, not cyclists, that you just think "why should this apply to me?".

aracer - Member

How is it legal?

Because they're faulty.

Fair enough then.

There comes a point where you have so many restrictions to negotiate which are clearly aimed at dealing with the problems caused by cars, not cyclists, that you just think "why should this apply to me?".

[i]There comes a point where you have so many restrictions to negotiate which are clearly aimed at dealing with the problems caused by cars, not cyclists, that you just think "why should this apply to me?". [/i]

there does? Never found that point myself.

[i]There comes a point where you have so many restrictions to negotiate which are clearly aimed at dealing with the problems caused by cars, not cyclists, that you just think "why should this apply to me?[/i]

I really hope you don't drive an artic.

Only in bike lanes.

Stopped running red lights a few years back after being hunted down like a dog by a roadie!! He proceeded to explain the errors of my ways in a very reasonable and polite way. Made me take notice and I've never run a red light since. I try and do the same with other cyclists - usually newbies - with varying levels of success. Only takes one short tempered mongtard in a 1993 BMW to turn you into hamburger. 😕

[i]Which is exactly the attitude I normally take to temporary roadworks lights[/i]

You're allowed to jump temporary lights (even in a car) [b]provided that you can see that the way is clear[/b].
I've gone through loads, both on a bike and in a car (after checking that it is safe to do so obviously!)

[url= http://www.stopatred.org/pledge.php ]http://www.stopatred.org/pledge.php[/url]

crazy-legs - Member
Which is exactly the attitude I normally take to temporary roadworks lights

You're allowed to jump temporary lights (even in a car) provided that you can see that the way is clear.
I've gone through loads, both on a bike and in a car (after checking that it is safe to do so obviously!)

Are you? got a link to this? (not that i don't belive you i just wish to see it writen down fo rpeace of mind.)

GaryLake - Member

I can't actually remember the last time I saw a cyclist RLJ on my commute if I'm honest... (Bristol)

I'm assuming your commute doesn't go through any traffic lights then!?! I can recall about 6 red light jumpers on my way into work this morning. There was even a car that jumped the light on my way home (turning right up zetland road at the gloucester road lights outside maplin)

[i]Are you? got a link to this? (not that i don't belive you i just wish to see it writen down fo rpeace of mind.) [/i]

I was told this by a police officer friend of mine but a quick google has just turned this up which suggests that he and I are wrong...

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-car-q-and-a/can-i-ignore-temporary-traffic-lights/216172

Edit: further Googling suggests that the law was changed from "advisory" status to "mandatory" back in 1994. Oops. I'm wrong.

Live and learn. 🙂

There comes a point where you have so many restrictions to negotiate which are clearly aimed at dealing with the problems caused by cars, not cyclists, that you just think "why should this apply to me?

You know, that's the best way I've ever seen that argument put. Well done.

You're allowed to jump temporary lights (even in a car) provided that you can see that the way is clear.

Well, as you said, you're wrong. But your're right that you can jump lights [b]if you suspect them to be broken[/b] [i]and you can can see the way is clear[/i] - e.g.. if you;ve been there for ten minutes and nothing's come through, or you've been waiting ages and can see the other side and there's nothing there etc etc

On topic for bikes, given that some permanent lights are activated by induction circuits that a bike will not trigger, you can go through them provided it is safe to do so.

yeah, there's a couple of lights in bus lanes that are the only red's i'll ever jump as they're demand driven by loop detectors and my bike doesn't set them off.

[i]On topic for bikes, given that some permanent lights are activated by induction circuits that a bike will not trigger, you can go through them provided it is safe to do so. [/i]

neodymium magnet on the BB shell. Problem solved.

There was a Court of Appeal case a while back where an emergency vehicle had run a red light and unfortunately killed a chap in the process. The driver of the ambulance (or whatever) was prosecuted. In their decision, the judges basically said that traffic lights fulfil the same function as a policeman stood in the centre of the town square directing traffic. If the ambulance had come up to the junction the policeman would more than likely have waved it through.

I realise the same lenience is never going to be granted to bicycles, as most of us don't have an emergency to get to, but I think a lot of people apply a similar logic in deciding whether or not to observe a red light. That said, some of them are just kn0bs too. 🙂

neodymium magnet on the BB shell. Problem solved.

Do you have lots of roadworks near you on very narrow country lanes, or are you caught up in an obsessive quest to make sure that you never ever break the law?

neodymium magnet on the BB shell. Problem solved.

Place your bike lengthways along the loop (not at 90 degrees to it) and, hey presto, it has the same effect as a car.

Problem solved.

Coupled of points:

1. I can cannot believe that our low life double talking, lying (this could go on for a while but you get the gist) government was actually deliberately making congestion worse to make a few measelly extra quid in taxes as late as April this year. Whilst that sort of thing is happening at government level what the hell right do they have to lecture us on energy efficiency, congestion and global warming. I'm gobsmacked at the hypocrisy.

2. Temporary lights, I recently had a set on my commute over a longish distance up a steep hill. The timing was set so that in my unfit state I didn't have a chance of getting even halfway across before the lights changed, even if I crossed the 'line' as soon as they changed. I got to the point with the lights that as I didn't have a hope of complying with the rules I might as well ignore them altogether and use common sense. What's everybodies biews on when the authorities set something up that we physically can't comply with, should I have got off and pushed my bike up the footway?

2. Temporary lights,

I think that would come into "faulty" setup just like lights that are stuck on red - go but proceed with caution IMHO!

[i]Do you have lots of roadworks near you on very narrow country lanes, or are you caught up in an obsessive quest to make sure that you never ever break the law? [/i]
yes to both, although I wouldn't really call it an 'obsessive quest'. Just can't see why some people think that they can pick and choose which laws they can break. If I were to screw your typical RLJ's front and back doors shut, then set fire to their house whilst their children were sleeping, would that be OK as long as I didn't think the law applied to me?

I'm assuming your commute doesn't go through any traffic lights then!?! I can recall about 6 red light jumpers on my way into work this morning. There was even a car that jumped the light on my way home (turning right up zetland road at the gloucester road lights outside maplin)

I take in Jacob Wells and Anchor Road...

If I were to screw your typical RLJ's front and back doors shut, then set fire to their house whilst their children were sleeping, would that be OK as long as I didn't think the law applied to me?

Haha - what? 😕

On topic for bikes, given that some permanent lights are activated by induction circuits that a bike will not trigger, you can go through them provided it is safe to do so.

Place your bike lengthways along the loop (not at 90 degrees to it) and, hey presto, it has the same effect as a car.

AndyP, your debating skills are fail.

[i]AndyP, your debating skills are fail. [/i]
what am I debating?

Just can't see why some people think that they can pick and choose which laws they can break.

what am I debating?

Whether it is sometimes OK to jump red lights, or whether it is in fact the legal and moral equivalent of burning a family to death in their beds and cackling maniacally as they scream in pain.

[i]Whether it is sometimes OK to jump red lights, or whether it is in fact the legal and moral equivalent of burning a family to death in their beds and cackling maniacally as they scream in pain. [/i]
really? I thought I just asked if that was ok with the forum lawbreakers. Your definition of debate is fail.

I can't actually remember the last time I saw a cyclist RLJ on my commute if I'm honest... (Bristol)

Whereas I often ride across town South to North or vice versa, everyday. I see about a half dozen cyclists RLJ'ing on almost every journey. Generally though, as many motor vehicles are RLJ'ing at the same time ..

I thought I just asked if that was ok with the forum lawbreakers.

AndyP, I must admit that you have shown me the error of my ways, and that in occasionally nipping through a red light when the road is utterly empty I am no better than a multiple murderer.

However, before I go to the police station to turn myself in, you do realise that it is a criminal offence to tamper with the operation of traffic signals under the New Roads and Street Works Act 1991, as you are arguably doing with your fancy pants magnet? See you in jail!

...and whilst you were all frothing at the nostrils, MSE has deleted the thread in question. Or maybe it self-combusted.