[Closed] Bike locks for 2021 ebike orientated

In 2021 Id expect the test company to acknowledge the existence of the master key.....

https://media.screwfix.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/997FV_P&$prodImageMedium$

With one of those there is no lock on earth capable enough.
It's a reasonably safe temp lock im after, the main thing is being insured.

I don’t leave my ebike out of my sight for more than a few minutes and I tend to use a Hiplock chain (not very secure but it’s still a big bolt cutter or angle grinder job) plus a motorbike disc lock/alarm. If I were leaving it for half an hour outside Asda I’d want a beast of a lock (like a 13 or 16mm Pragmasis chain) and some kind of techy device to alert my phone if it was being messed with.

Sold Secure is like thatcham and other lock "testers", basically a confidence trick/industry boys club. They don't test locks in true world conditions and it's not by mistake- they don't want to test locks with the attacks criminals really use to break quality locks and then have to give practically everything bad grades, they want to test with a range of variously ineffectual attacks so that you can grade a crap lock "silver" and the sellers can charge more for it, or a slightly less crap lock "gold" and they can charge more again and sell you a £150 lock that any competent thief will break faster than you can find your keys. The only value really is insurance.

(I saw a nice analogy- it's like discovering that 90% of houses are broken into using a brick through a window, and then testing your high security door locks by throwing bricks at them. Door resisted 3 hours of bricking, which is the attack thieves use most, so we rate it Brick Secure Gold. Oh a lockpick opened it in 20 seconds? Ah but most thieves use bricks)

Also, bear in mind that you're only ever as secure as whatever you're locked to. You'll rarely find anything that's as solid as a midrange d-lock to actually lock your bike to.

Well D locks were the option i was opting for. Something like new york types. But they have to be tested somehow, and I am a fan of the lock picking lawyer, who has recommended a number.
Sure, all can be broken, but what im looking for is not something thats been tested by placing it in a vice and had a series of professional tools thrown at it, Angle grinders will cut anything, I know because ive got one and use it to as said, cut anything. But im going to be using it in for example the center of Glasgow, in the mid afternoon in in popular areas. And ive yet to either hear or come across reports of thieves using angle grinders int hat type of setting. Or outside morrisons or asda, its just not the place its likely to happen.
Locks can be picked, but does that really happen in these high traffic areas, or is it likely stolen from a shed or some easily cut lock in some quiet close in the dead of night, in fact the railing on stair in any glasgow close are easily broken without much force.
What im asking for is a big, known to resist croppers in theres busy areas. Im not intending too be locking my new bike somewhere i havent locked my cove, which with the big forks and all hope gold is a very stand out bike amongst the rest of the bikes locked up.

I would say that locks with 14mm hardened or cobalt shackles are probably more likely to resist some chance thief, rather than a career criminal attempting to cut or grind it off in the middle of the city. This isnt London.

It is very easy to state no lock is 100% secure, but circumstances of how that lock is removed goes more to do with how strong the lock is, and the circumstances of where it is locked and for how long.
I was hoping for some more real work personal preferences, given many here own expensive bikes.

I think you're being a bit cynical as to who solid secure are and what they do and your analogy isnt a real world analogy in that they test locks, not glass windows, and it falls flat when its at the top of a high rise building with no accessible windows. How they test the locks i dont know, but someone has to and i think saying its just a big con is a bit too far.

Sold secure is a load of pish mate.

Well I found this.

I doubt your average thief has that range of kit theyre testing locks with at their disposal.

But what youre effectively saying is we should never lock a bike outside. No lock is good enough, and because of that rational its utterly pointless
I take it you dont have a lock.

I need something, I cannot accept that according to two of you, i shouldnt have a bike lock because its pointless. Sounds too defeatist and cynical for me.

On this note this means nothing tested can be relied upon. No bike frame, no fork, no brake, no nothing, because somewhere sometime it can break.

I used to work for an organisation which had the contract with the local council to remove abandoned bikes or bikes which had been locked causing an obstruction.

There was no lock that took more than 30 seconds to remove. We used bolt croppers and battery angle grinders in the city centre, during the day and no one batted an eyelid. We had authorisation but were never challenged.

Just get a big chunky d lock, and if possible take the battery with you.

Rechargeable angle grinders are pretty small, cheap, fast at cutting locks and not that noisy. Carry a clipboard and wear a high vis jacket when using it in any town centre and I doubt anyone would stop you.

A chain is much harder to angle grind than a D-lock because it flaps about. An alarm will attract attention and reduce the chance of the thief persevering, especially if it’s a second lock that will need removing before the bike can be pedalled away.

I’ve never been to Glasgow but I’ve never got the impression that it’s a low crime area?

Tbh I'm not sure Glasgow is in the same league as certain English cities for bike crime, but I still wouldn't leave 5k of bike out of sight, just my thoughts.

Seen a fully blinged yeti, 9k worth, on top of a car outside decathlon Glasgow a few weeks back. Given that you can take your bike round that shop, utter madness.

This is the kind of chain I mean:

https://securityforbikes.com/proddetail.php?prod=P13-x.x-SS50CS

Bear in mind that your fork can be removed by undoing two bolts and snipping one hose so that lock alone isn’t enough. And your dropper with one bolt and one cable to snip.

Also, you can’t lock a chain like that to typical bike racks without defeating the security level - they’ll just cut the rack. Needs to go around something big like a large tree or lamppost.

boriselbrus

Understood, but were you wearing hi vis and with a liveried van next to you. Yup i know anyone can wear a high vis, and I take on board what youre saying, but i feel were i am in Glasgow such actions would immediately draw attention. " Just get a big chunky d lock, and if possible take the battery with you. "
This is actually the plan. I might even get the sewing machine out and make a specific over the shoulder carry bag for the battery itself.

Nobeerinthefridge

I dont really have a choice but I'll take as m,any precautions as i can, big ABUS Bordo 6500 Granit X-Plus lock , the krypton cable and even a 2nd gold standard halfords D lock if its a case of visiting M&S in the city center. But again this isnt the type of thing that happens in Glasgow city mid afternoon, if anything its people just popping in for 60 seconds and leaving it unlocked outside. Other than that I can choose a coffee & bun emporium with somewhere to lock within my view.
With the cove i do get a bit squirrely in the city with it locked up and did at the beginning mosey on back, staying out of sight to see if anyone started hanging about the racks looking dodgy bt again its the opportunist looking for the easy swipe rather than the serious thieves, who seem to operate in the small hours in peoples sheds. I have an entire bedroom dedicated to bikes, and there they all live.

chiefgrooveguru

Again its what can happen theoretically opposed to what can happen based on the above criteria. Personally I've never heard of forks getting stolen in Glasgow and i know pretty much everyone from the bike shops to the charitable organizations. The kryptonite cable can go through the saddle rails quite easily, and if it doesnt on this, ill just buy one that does. I am considering swapping the bolt for a security bolt that needs a specialist bit that is highly unlikely anyone up to stealing such would have in their possession, i mean its not something that you come across in any bike so no thief would have such, and fixed in place due tot he nature of a dropper, you never need to shift it unless youre home in the workshop
" Also, you can’t lock a chain like that to typical bike racks without defeating the security level "
The racks are fine. Theyre pretty robust,a dn to cut through it would require 2 cuts, it would probably be quicker and draw less attention than trying to cut a single lock. But theres a fair few cameras in Glasgow, and its the Glaswegian mindset to get involved in someone elses business if you think its out of place 😆 there is a shed load of cyclists in Glasgow and oone would take notice of someone trying to cut off a lock. We;re a big bike city these days, literally hundreds on the go a day.

I should be ok, and I'll take the most robust precautions i can.

If you look at the threads of stolen bikes on here. few have been stolen while heavily locked up on a rack and the majority apear to have been taken in the dead of night from sheds or while the owner is at work, or the cases of rural shops closed over the weekend where none of the bikes were locked to anything.

To reinforce what others are saying about angle grinders and locks:

Seriously, 20 seconds and they’ll be gone. In the center of Glasgow I’d give it about a week before you come back to find the reminants of your £150 lock.

There’s no way I’d lock and walk away from any of my even half decent bikes. The only sort of bike I’d ride and lock in town would be something that’s unlikely to draw any attention. We’re talking high-end Apollo, or maybe a cheapie Giant, and even then I’d make sure it looked like total sh*te.

I use an Almax motorbike chain with my eBike, wrapped round solid steel bullbars off the chassis rails of my van.

Obviously no good for portability!

Just get whatever solid secure one that meets your insurance company requirements.

You're right, it'll probably never get pinched in town with s good d lock on. If it does, insurance. It's impossible to be totally secure and portable

I know a few on here, and that video think an angle grinder is quick and easy, but reality is that if you use a fahgettaboudit chain at 14mm thick it'll take a bit longer to get through, that video looks like they're going through a simple security lock, as it's one cut, you have to cut something like a 14mm link which will require two cuts and you'll be looking at a good couple of minutes.

Best bet is to minimise leaving the bike locked up anywhere, but if you must, the fahgettaboudit 1415 is a good start, although slightly heavy to just carry about!

To give a size perspective of two of the ones i use in the house, the fahgettaboudit is the smaller one!

rockandrollmark

Mark, I have an angle grinder and im a furniture maker so powertools are my thing. I know, understand and the rest. I know the machines 4".4 1/2" and 9", Plus disc selection.
The Cove is about 2 grand and very visual. Theres lots of high end road bikes. Really I think you're being a bit romantic in the dealings of the criminal fraternity, Again, this isnt London, Glasgow, especially the city is a small place.
Plus we're already seeing Ebikes locked up while the owners off about. I honestly haven't ever sen a problem, and even the police figures put theft of bikes down to opportunists or as ive reiterated 1/2 a dozen times, from peoples sheds and lock up the dead of night. I would say a bike is safer locked up with proper locks in the city, than stored in someones shed unattended for 8 or 10 hours, or all day when theyre at work or doing other things.

Can't say how many threads on bike forums ive seen saying my 10K worth of standard bikes got nicked off OUT THE SHED.
So the safest place, this mans, that mans shed IN THEIR GARDEN, and the bikes got stolen, but whats the anatomy of the theft. Left for several hours unattended quiet, isolated, nobody about. So much for a super safe place.
So therefore no bike is safe, no place is safe, so what are you all doing buying expensive bikes 😆 Obviously you're taking more of a chance than I am and sticking the proverbial head in the sand with it won't be me.yet the statistic show you're pride and joy isnt safe in your own garden or locked shed. but the truth is if by your own point, nothing is safe then nothing is safe. Why have a car then, or buy the wife expensive jewellery,if you're going to live life with this or that might happen thats just a mind fk.
I've had a bike nicked. I was riding it at the time.

dyna-ti
Free Member

I think you’re being a bit cynical as to who solid secure are and what they do and your analogy isnt a real world analogy in that they test locks, not glass windows, and it falls flat when its at the top of a high rise building with no accessible windows. How they test the locks i dont know, but someone has to and i think saying its just a big con is a bit too far.

I'm really not being cynical- they were quite open when I spoke to them that their tests use only weaker attacks, and the justification was that "that's what thieves use most of the time". So literally they were testing heavy duty locks with the tools that thieves use on tesco locks and cables, because "that's what thieves use most of the time", rather than using the attacks that would actually break a proper lock because those are "rare". But they're only rare because proper locks are rare too, and most bikes are locked with terrible locks.

(that's why the analogy works. Not all bike thefts are the same, just as not all house break-ins are the same, but testing a high security protection with the attacks that get past low security protection is worthless. Imagine testing a tank with a knife because hardly anyone gets killed by anti-tank weapons. It's absolutely meaningless if your "sold secure gold" lock can resist a hacksaw or a sledgehammer or a crowbar, or a can of pipe freezer, or a pen, because those only work on shit locks. If you want to test an Asgard shed, do you do it with the same little pry bar that can dismantle a wooden one? Ah but it's a shed and most sheds are broken into that way.

You can pass their highest "diamond" test with a lightweight 12mm chain that can be broken with boltcutters faster than you can find your keys. it used to be a scandal that those could even get Gold, giving people a false sense of security and leading people to spend £150+ on weak locks- then they introduced a higher grading and made it even worse. The number of bikes that have been lost precisely because some poor bugger thought they were buying a top end lock...

They're not a consumer organisation, they're an industry organisation that exists to take money from manufacturers and give them an award, grading locks in a way that the industry likes. They were still grading round-key locks Gold even after the pen defeat was public.

To judge how good "diamond" is as a standard, just look at Pragmasis- their 13mm chain is manually boltcropperable by their own tests, but passes "diamond". Their 16mm is the lightest chain they offer that can't be boltcroppered, and also gets diamond. The 19mm also gets diamond. I use the 16mm, it's a great chain and pretty much exactly what a Gold lock should be. The 13mm should be silver at most, arguably bronze. Diamond, ffs.

Grim but a 2k bike is an easy 40 quid to a bike thief, the odds are stacked against you before you start, a couple of heavy locks is off putting to the opportunist but advertising a diamond to the clued up specialist bike thief, they might target it for the challenge, do they do this in Glasgow?

I'd go for a few locks, more cuts, fk that I'll take an easier one sort of approach, a bog standard padlock through the chain ring is cheap and easy and one more annoying thing to remove.

a bog standard padlock through the chain ring is cheap and easy and one more annoying thing to remove.

That sounds like a very good simple and effective idea. And you can get some belters of padlocks for less than the cost of a big D or chain lock.
Still though this isnt the norm, and 99% of the time, like the rest of my bikes, it stays with me wherever i go. Just those once a fortnight shopping runs if I fancy a nice steak from M&S where i have to shop inside.

Their 16mm is the lightest chain they offer that can’t be boltcroppered, and also gets diamond. The 19mm also gets diamond. I use the 16mm

I'd always opt for the thicker bar. No point scrimping at this level.
i think though theres other criteria for the diamond rating. Cant be easily picked, bump resistant,or of seriously hardened steel like tool steel type of thing

M&S steak? More money than sense, lidl fillet steak for the win. 😁

What does your insurer require? Get that, and take a quick photo to show you’re using it when you park up.

Rather than a padlock, an alarmed disc lock (as used for motorbikes) means noise is it’s moved as well as another awkward thing to defeat.

For the shift to active travel to succeed, society has to crack this security conundrum as ebikes play a significant part in it.
Cars are much harder to steal than they were in the 80s. It's time for bike manufacturers to step up and solve the problem. Ebike electronic immobilisers would be a good starting point.

You can still pedal an ebike with no motor though, not quite the same as pushing a 5 series out a drive.

If I wanted an ebike to lock up outside a shop I'd probably get a conversion kit and fit it to a cr@p looking hybrid or something and remove the battery so it just looks as much as possible like a normal bike.

Then lock it with a big chain and/or d-lock.

OR get a folding ebike like a Brompton and take it in the shop.

There's an obvious solution that I don't think has been mentioned yet*... Buy a cheaper (less desirable) bike to go into town on.

Still use a decent meaty lock, but the combination of a low value bike and slightly higher challenge to get through a lock means the "average" bike thief will move onto the next candidate...

*Edit: Horatio beat me by 60 seconds...

And you can easily pick up an ebike and chuck it in the back of a van - whilst even a 50cc scooter is almost impossible to lift single-handedly.

But yes, I think ebikes/scooters are the key to future urban transport but we have to massively reduce theft.

Understood, but were you wearing hi vis and with a liveried van next to you. Yup i know anyone can wear a high vis, and I take on board what youre saying, but i feel were i am in Glasgow such actions would immediately draw attention. ” Just get a big chunky d lock, and if possible take the battery with you. ”

Nope. Black hoodies usually and no van as it was pedestrianised.

No one gave a damn.

Judging by how negative much of the general public seems to be towards cyclists, I wouldn’t be be surprised if they’re inwardly applauding any bike thieves for “teaching those *ing cyclists a lesson”. Especially if it’s an expensive bike “look at that * spending thousands on a bike, should have bought a car, then it wouldn’t get nicked”…

but i feel were i am in Glasgow such actions would immediately draw attention

Oh they will, if the observer cares. Otherwise the bike is fair game. I huckled a jakey on Sauchiehall Street, right on the corner of Cambridge Street who burst a cable lock by just running the bike back and forward several times. This was the middle of the day with plenty folk around and not one person bothered with him until I got involved and even then it was after the fact. Turned out the bams that came over to see what my problem was were plain clothes police who hadnt noticed.

As you say though a decent lock is better than nothing.

If I wanted an ebike to lock up outside a shop I’d probably get a conversion kit and fit it to a cr@p looking hybrid or something and remove the battery so it just looks as much as possible like a normal bike.

There’s an obvious solution that I don’t think has been mentioned yet*… Buy a cheaper (less desirable) bike to go into town on.

Awaiting the "what ebike to use so I don't have to use the bike I actually bought to fulfil a purpose" thread.

I take it you guys only take Saracen Havocs to trail centres then? Or are you the kind of person that has faith in a rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?

Not an expert but:

Check with your insurance company regarding locks. They're the ones that'll be paying out, after all. most will have a minimum spec- it might be some cock and bull 'rating', but you need to play the game by their rules.

If you've got a removable head unit/display that you can register with the manufacturer, register it to you and your bike and always take it away (means that as soon as someone tries to buy a 'replacement head unit', the manufacturer will block the sale, and you *might* get your bike back.

Take the battery with you. I seem to remember that registering the bike also locks the battery to that particular bike (certainly does for mine)- other batteries simply won't work.

If nervous, it's time to break out the pub bike.

Stuff gets nicked- nice stuff doubly so.

I take it you guys only take Saracen Havocs to trail centres then? Or are you the kind of person that has faith in a rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?

Generally if I ride involves a cafe I'm with someone else, and/or the cafe/pub will be one chosen with security in mind - eg outside table next to bikes unlocked, visible through the window + cable lock, etc

Trail centres, I've got a big motorbike lock in the car, I will go and get that for a proper post ride stop. BPW I'll take it up at the beginning of the day and leave it wrapped round the fence.

Only luck prevented me from having a new bike vanish from CyB years ago, I've been paranoid ever since.

Why do you believe your motorbike lock is any more secure than the ones we're discussing here?

No better or worse than a bike one, but its not the sort of thing you carry with you on a ride, even a pop to the shops type one, if it was marketed as a bike lock it would definitely be a garage/shed lock only.

I only use the phrase as a shorthand for bigass lock with hardened steel chain and padlock the size of a large fist, in my reply about "rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?"

I only use the phrase as a shorthand for bigass lock with hardened steel chain and padlock the size of a large fist, in my reply about “rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?”

You hadn't even posted before I wrote that so why did you think I was addressing you?

I had a SoldSecure Gold rated cable lock that got cut through outside of my offices a few years back. It at least meant that the insurance company were very sympathetic (and approved a replacement two days later, which I ended up not needing because I found my bike being sold by the brother of the thief 80 miles away in Sheffield...)

Couple of other points to note...

If the bike is locked with a very secure lock then the thieves just cut through the frame. You know its 2 grands worth but the thief will be more interested in the parts anyway. Your bike is identifiable. Your motor, wheels, brakes fork, shock etc much less so and very valuable.

If theives want to look less conspicuous, they will work as a pair. One dressed in bike clothes with a helmet, the other with the grinder. Anyone challenges them, the "bike" guy just says it's his bike, he lost the key to the lock and his mate is cutting the lock off so he can get home.

Most padlocks can be broken with a couple of spanners - plenty of videos on the Internet.

Volt bikes need a keyfob transponder to get them to work. The bikes are a bit basic, but at least they have some electronic security. Other manufacturers take note.

I think a short trip and not left long outside a shop, cafe or whatever is opportunist thief territory, different approach to leaving all day at work etc, for the cafe opportunist I'd go with a light lock and an allen key, only takes a few seconds to loosen the stem screws and swing the handlebars round to being visibly unridable, can't just grab it and go.

Leaving a bike for a longer period, in a place where bikes are left, without cctv right on it is a no for me, this is organised pre planned bike thief territory, the very place they go shopping, years and years ago, there was a group in the Glasgow area that went round in a transit van, they just went round all the likely places and had everything in the van needed, I think they were nabbed at Bishopbriggs sports center, they were patrolling the canals etc, they sold the bikes out of the van like a travelling bike shop, and this was back before bikes were really that expensive, I see no way of avoiding the likes of that.

I do like the idea of an exploding bike though, or secrete a tracker chip in the frame and phone 10 local cyclists to go pick it up.

dyna-ti
Free Member

i think though theres other criteria for the diamond rating. Cant be easily picked, bump resistant,or of seriously hardened steel like tool steel type of thing

Again missing the point- the "diamond" rating has been applied to lightweight easy-to-break locks. Yes it has requirements for lockpicking, bumping, snapping etc but it's all bollocks if you give the higher-than-high rating to weak chains.

Sold Secure is like competing in the high jump, but with the pole always 2 feet up. Everyone have a diamond medal...

Aye,but i do get it, hence the post i put about it having different criteria
But i agree that there seemed to be a bit of disparity concerning that rating 😕 The lock maker rates diamond, but sold secure puts the same at gold, as do all the well known very strong locks, they dont seem to label their locks that way, and gold seems at least at a glance to be the highest rated. It would be the gold rated I'd be opting for.

lidl fillet steak for the win.

I once tried to use that as shoe leather.
But I couldnt get the nails through it.

I think the solution is a butchers that lets you take your bike into the shop, everyone's a winner.

“ I think the solution is a butchers that lets you take your bike into the shop”

This may be tongue in cheek (other cold meats are allowed) but I’ve never worried about locking my Levo to itself simply leaning against the window of my butchers - good luck running off with it before I batter you with a large joint and then consume the weapon…

I stopped for a coffee in respectable Ayr, parked my scabby old stumpy against the barrier thing with me on the other side, looked like it was just left unattended perhaps with me just being a customer, within minutes I had a small group of junkies trying very badly to look inconspicuous as they discussed the pros and cons of knicking my bike within earshot, when I made it obvious it was mine the moved on but from what I could gather this was going to be a team effort.

Clubbing one of those guys with a Sunday roast is a jackpot day for these guys, the will have your dinner too, and one will probably come back for your shoes.

dyna-ti
Free Member

gold seems at least at a glance to be the highest rated. It would be the gold rated I’d be opting for.

Diamond is the highest standard, for what little it's worth.

respectable Ayr

Nope, lost me.

Aye, if it was the butcher at the bottom o the toon, you were lucky to escape.

Awaiting the “what ebike to use so I don’t have to use the bike I actually bought to fulfil a purpose” thread.

I take it you guys only take Saracen Havocs to trail centres then? Or are you the kind of person that has faith in a rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?

I think you're missing my point the thing that attracts thieves to your expensive Ebike is the fact that it is an expensive, portable object in a vulnerable setting... That problem is quite easily solved by spending a £100 on an old nag to risk on errands instead...

My pub/shops bike is probably worth less than half the locks you're considering, and it get locked up with an ancient kryptonite (that is probably quite easy to defeat but still looks the part).
It's fixed, has a crate on the bars for shopping and deliberately looks shite, it's reassuring when someone visibly scoffs at it. Anyone who steals it must really be desperate. I would miss it but my loss would be minor compared to several grands worth of Ebike.

Did you actually buy the fancy eeeb just for popping to the shops?

Essentially all I'm saying is (in line with established STW policy) you need N+1.

Did you actually buy the fancy eeeb just for popping to the shops?

I bought it because I like well specced bikes, and when youre spending this much money I like to know its on decent kit. You can spend the same amount on some brands and get suntour and lots of unbranded Chinese tat.
what I do with it is my own affair.
Truth is im buying ebike because my health is failing. Ive some major medical conditions but i cant drive, and as such im forced to make hard decisions as to how i'll get about, go riding for enjoyment or yes, even get my shopping.
Take another thread about a member buying a very fast and sporty Volvo. Are the replies berating him because he isn't taking it onto a race track, or to Germany to run on the nurburgring. No course not. People respect when it comes to cars that people have nice things and can use those nice things as they wish. And there are car thieves about that specifically target high spec cars and its a hell of a lot easier to break into and steal than trying to cut through a 16mm hardened steel bar in a high traffic public area in the middle of the day. Not to say it wont happen, but my experience of the expensive bike i have being locked in the same areas, and only using a lock that i know isnt a high end lock says its unlikely, and the fact that the majority of high end bikes are pinched from peoples garden sheds while theyre sleeping or at work doesnt seem to enter the equation.

I need to lock my expensive bike up in a busy city center occasionally that isnt London or San Fransisco, which is also attracting commentary about why.
Were this a Riese and Muller cargo or Tern cargo bike costing 2 or 3 grand more and supposed to be used to go shopping on and left locked up , how is there now a difference. Yeah there are bike thieves about, yes they break into houses and cars, and sheds but cant live our lives worrying about what might happen, you take the best precautions you can.
I ask about a bike lock and what people think is the best and its all replies about why why why.
Thankfully there have also been plenty of replies as to what members consider to be a good strong lock. I take their advice and choose one from these choices taking all factors of strength, weight and rating into account. And on the subject of rating, some feel it necessary to berate that. Calling it some great big con. I can see they arent master locksmiths, so where is their info coming from 😕 sod knows.Certainly the police,several universities, the home office several bike insurance companies and many many bike experts both in industry and online rate this companies testing as amongst the best. Fine, people want to live their life in a cynical cloud. I respect them for their opinion, but when it becomes a bit far fetched im compelled to ask why.

Not getting on to you or anyone, but lets at least be logical.

FFS... I'm not a "master locksmith" but you don't need to be, to cut a chain with a boltcutter and realise how quickly a thief can make off with a badly secured bike with a gold or diamond chain on it. You realise that most bike thieves aren't "master locksmiths" either? And why would they bother when people are still being fooled into buying "high" and "highest" security chains that offer such weak protection.

Or to understand that if a manufacturer makes 3 different weight chains and they all get the highest "diamond" grade even though the lowest security one is boltcroppable and the others aren't, then the standard's no good.

Totally correct Mr FFS.
And all that is obvious. But you slagged off the testing company and it is (As you are very well aware) that point im referring to.

“…the fact that the majority of high end bikes are pinched from peoples garden sheds while theyre sleeping or at work doesnt seem to enter the equation”

Is this a fact? I’ve never seen any evidence about it. If it is a fact, isn’t that because most people don’t risk leaving high end bikes locked up in public places because the risk of theft is so high?

It would be a shame for your new expensive bike to be stolen fairly soon because of risky behaviour or poor security.

This page of certificates is quite enlightening - note how “diamond” for bikes is graded far lower for other items:

https://securityforbikes.com/certificates.php

Dyna, with all due respect, you seem to have just recently came across sold secure. They are a joke, no one pays any attention to their ratings, you'd be better off spending your time watching YouTubers who test locks with real world methods.

I think you’re missing my point the thing that attracts thieves to your expensive Ebike is the fact that it is an expensive, portable object in a vulnerable setting… That problem is quite easily solved by spending a £100 on an old nag to risk on errands instead…

*facepalm*

You're missing my point, I understand what you're saying perfectly. But why buy a bike for a specific purpose then not use it for that actual purpose? What the hell else should he use a shopper bike for?

Edited because I read on: I was under the assumption dyna had a cargo bike because of his previous topic. Hope that clarifies where I was coming from.

I sometimes stop off for lunch stuff or the likes after a local ride, so having a crappy shopper wouldn’t be good for that, I also lock my bike up in town now and again for stuff like the gym, make sure it’s locked in an area that’s got a lot of motion and cameras, locked up with a 14mm kryptonite chain, I have confidence in it, I know how long and how hard it would be to get through that, if they manage it without getting caught then fair enough, it’s insured

I think we all agree that the sold secure rating is a joke but in most cases it's what the insurance company stipulates as a requirement for cover. In which case, just buy the cheapest lock that fills their requirements and rest easy knowing that if/when the bike gets nicked the insurance should pay for a new one.

If you actually want to keep the bike as secure as possible then buy something better but if it's not rated to your insurance company standards then you will still need to fit your cheap SS gold lock as well just to keep them happy.

squirrelking

Nope, lost me

I moved from Glasgow and the estate agent told me it was posh, it is in some ways but they forgot to mention that the town center is like scene out of Bladerunner when the posse runs out of skag.

I moved from Glasgow and the estate agent told me it was posh

Sounds like Ayr.

it is in some ways but they forgot to mention that the town center is like scene out of Bladerunner when the posse runs out of skag.

Definitely sounds like Ayr. Is the Forum site still modelling a bing in the middle of it? It'll soon have listed status...

Definitely sounds like Ayr. Is the Forum site still modelling a bing in the middle of it? It’ll soon have listed status…

A bing in the middle of Ayr??

I think we all agree that the sold secure rating is a joke but in most cases it’s what the insurance company stipulates as a requirement for cover.

As others have said, spot on, it's the one thing that you really wanna sort out, that your insurance is gonna cover you.

Edited because I read on: I was under the assumption dyna had a cargo bike because of his previous topic. Hope that clarifies where I was coming from.

The point being offered was not about my specific choice of bike but the fact it was an expensive electric bike. I tried to show comparison that all high end E-cargo bikes are expensive, and their primary purpose is to go shopping or be in that type of use on a near daily basis, and in that use they will be locked up outside while the owner is off doing their shopping. Do they get pinched ?, i expect they do, but more likely by the career criminal rather than the opportunist, which im hoping will be the case in the 20 minutes it takes for me to do a small shop.
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I also on several occasions tried to point out that it is obvious that a cordless angle grinder can cut through any lock, but the point wasnt the worst case scenario but rather an acceptance of it and what is good for the non professions opportunist thief with basic tools hoping to nick a poorly locked bike and not one with the top style of lock. Locks have to be rated and I'll wager anyone buying one will look for a rating from best to worst. So who rates these locks, and why would they need to be rated if not for the grading of opportunist to professional. I cant know what lock is best if theres no rating on it, so I would go with whichever from some simple research as to who rates the rating company so to speak, and there it appears to be the one company.

Dyna, with all due respect, you seem to have just recently came across sold secure. They are a joke, no one pays any attention to their ratings, you’d be better off spending your time watching YouTubers who test locks with real world methods.

I do.
I'm not relying simply on what one insurance,police,bike company,home office or journalist rated testing company is suggesting, but also looking at other tests being carried out by other cyclists on you tube and the like. Some ,like the lockpicking lawyer go to extreme lengths to test all locks, and if you cant go with at least such or such a recommendation, then there is nothing worth having. The latter tester is proof any lock can be picked, but he is an experienced individual with years of skill and knows intuitively from feel how he is doing deep inside a lock, hardly the type of experience the opportunist junkie has.
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I even gave an instance of being mugged for my bike, so any lock even if it was unbreakable to superman wouldnt matter if you get knocked off it and that would go for any bike, high end, cheap,electric or whatever. It was an acknowledgement that thieves are about.

I sometimes stop off for lunch stuff or the likes after a local ride, so having a crappy shopper wouldn’t be good for that, I also lock my bike up in town now and again for stuff like the gym, make sure it’s locked in an area that’s got a lot of motion and cameras, locked up with a 14mm kryptonite chain, I have confidence in it, I know how long and how hard it would be to get through that, if they manage it without getting caught then fair enough, it’s insured

Thank you, the type of recommendation i was looking for. The lock you chose is highly rated and will defeat all but the most determined thief with a portable grinder.
Replies keep pointing this issue out, despite multiple acknowledgement of it. "yes yes we understand that, now about a strong lock, what do you recommend" 😆

“…the fact that the majority of high end bikes are pinched from peoples garden sheds while theyre sleeping or at work doesnt seem to enter the equation”

Is this a fact? I’ve never seen any evidence about it. If it is a fact, isn’t that because most people don’t risk leaving high end bikes locked up in public places because the risk of theft is so high?

It would be a shame for your new expensive bike to be stolen fairly soon because of risky behaviour or poor security.

This page of certificates is quite enlightening – note how “diamond” for bikes is graded far lower for other items:

https://securityforbikes.com/certificates.php/blockquote >

To start off with I choose to ask google what the most common way a bicycle is stolen, and although there are many different ways, many of the police forces list stolen from sheds as the No1 item chosen by thieves, its not too difficult to suggest or reason that that is their No1 interest in stealing a bike, and given its harder than breaking into a home than a shed, shed appear to be easy targets, yet many here use them, and theres a number of threads pertaining o ' shed safety. Seems odd doesnt it given sheds are the No1 choice for bike thieves for people to insist on putting the damn things in there 😆
Heres an example from this very site.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bikes-stolen-what-sites-to-watch/
and in fact googling stolen bikes and sTW brings up a host of results dating back to over a decade.
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" note how “diamond” for bikes is graded far lower for other items "
I think we've covered that one. ion that there are different tests. you'll need to be more specific and say how the tests differ and why motorcycle is rated higher than caravan. I dont know, but there will be some formula or reason dont you think. Know that reason we have the answer, so i cannot speculate otherwise as to what that may or may not be.

" It would be a shame for your new expensive bike to be stolen fairly soon because of risky behaviour or poor security."
Yeah, and it certainly doesnt sound like youre hoping that happens 😉 😛 😆 Just kidding.
You got a car ? cars get stolen. why did you buy a car if cars get stolen. Again wheres the sanity in that.
Got a wife with expensive jewellery in the house, probably sitting on a dresser or in a drawer. Again it is easy to ask why, when we know homes get broken into and thieves love such expensive goods. So why did you buy them when you know thieves are about. Its the same question and the same answer isnt it.

Anyway. Strong lock and have insurance and follow that insurance companies recommendation rating, however pants that recommendation is. Thumbs up, got it 😀

 

dyna-ti
Free Member

And all that is obvious. But you slagged off the testing company and it is (As you are very well aware) that point im referring to.

If those things are obvious then you understand why I'm slagging off the testing company.

Nope, I still think your comments are unwarranted.
single track magazine think SS is acceptable. No added demeaning of them.

The point being offered was not about my specific choice of bike but the fact it was an expensive electric bike. I tried to show comparison that all high end E-cargo bikes are expensive, and their primary purpose is to go shopping or be in that type of use on a near daily basis, and in that use they will be locked up outside while the owner is off doing their shopping.

I think there were 3 conversations happening at once here. I agree with you FWIW, nobody bat's an eye at a R&M or Tern for shopping but for some reason your case is different. Eh?

A bing in the middle of Ayr??

Aye, the remnants of the forum and woolies at the bottom of the high street. I could probably see my house from the top.

Two final things in response to the king of posting questions so he can ignore all the responses:

1. If I bought an expensive cargo ebike I’d carry a big lock and alarm with it. The locks I put links up to are not that quick/easy to cut with an angle grinder and can’t be cut with bolt croppers.

2. IMO an equally expensive eMTB is a more appealing target for thieves because it’s covered in more widely used and expensive components (eg fancy fork) and because I suspect there are more people wanting to buy a stolen fun/cool toy than a stolen v practical boring utility vehicle.

I'm not ignoring suggestions, just maybe disagree with certain points being forwarded.

And you'll be happy to know It is your suggestion i immediately latched onto as a sensible point being well made. Namely about opting for chain over D lock, in that a chain is kind of wobbly and harder to cut without it flopping all over the place, coupled with being versatile in that it can wind over and through larger diameter racks, or posts and you can secure a wheel and frame at the same time. Theres not always racks where you need to go, and things like lamposts are easier to come by so to speak.
Personally I've always been a cable fan, given in the decades of locking bikes up found D locks can be difficult to find something to lock on to.
But I shall also have a D lock, tested to gold standard obviously 😉 to lock back wheel to frame, meaning if for some reason the lock locking the bike to whatever fails, or 'whatever', it cannot be easily wheeled away, and if cut its something that extends the time it takes to cut.

So 2 locks and battery removal will be the order of the day. Unfortunately I cant afford on my meager income a team of mercenary snipers to overwatch it 🙁

Unfortunately I cant afford on my meager income a team of mercenary snipers to overwatch it 🙁

Got any mini levers in your stash? Can't guarantee it won't be more of a Lock Stock affair though, and I don't mean the Bren gun.

dyna-ti
Free Member

a chain is kind of wobbly and harder to cut without it flopping all over the place

Nah. Not with any of the tools that a thief will actually use.

What ? 😕 Laser beams or maybe the jaws of life hydraulic cutters ?

😆
Perhaps they'll be part of a small group that drives about picking just that precise moment to attack a stand of locked cycles in their drive about Glasgow city center.

You don't think they've got undercover spotters out do you 😯 Hiding in every bush, 2 way radios at the ready, just waiting for someone to add their electric bike to a stand of non electric bikes and council hire-a- bikes 😯

😆

Good lord, 2 pages of bickering about locks. 🤣

For me it is simple.

- All locks can get defeated
- Expensive bikes / ebikes are desirable to thiefs
- The public at large doesn't give a toss and won't intervene a bike theft

My answer would be not to leave a bike anywhere but, this is not practical for the OP.
Second option is to get a reasonable lock and a crap bike to go into town on.
Third option is to accept the points above, forget studying locks so deeply and get one that the insurance company specifically recommends, then accept that it will likely be stolen at some point but at least the insurance is sorted.
Forth option (which would be my 1st in the OPs position) is pre planned home delivery and just use bikes for fun.

My colleagues ebike (it's a ghastly commuter thing) has a built in alarm that makes a racket & notifies his phone if it gets wobbled
Can you get an alarmed lock?

Yeah I wondered about alarmed locks, but im worried in a rack situation where you get someone locking their bike too it will set it off and deafen everyone, have me running out only to find nothing wrong. Thats bound to lead to paranoia 😆 not good for the mental health.

Forth option (which would be my 1st in the OPs position) is pre planned home delivery and just use bikes for fun.

Sounds a fair option. I can do a larger shop thats not to far and not any major hills, the one i do currently on the cove, with rack and just now got a pair of as new agu panniers(40 quid,bloody bargain) thats what I normally do and will continue doing for 80% of the time, its just the very occasional jaunt elsewhere for a change. If I was to put that into a time scale, it would be like once every 2 or likely 3 months.
The bikes intended use is to get about,in style and enjoy having a nice bike of the type i appreciate. To go further afield without getting utterly knacked as i am currently. Nice to cycle out to the outlying rural areas, but return trip is a nightmare and more of a slog than a pleasantish return home. The return of all these further afield journeys for me is always difficult, especially so as time has went on(not 30 any more 🙁 ) and its always always up hill and into the wind.
So its really to get me back into the cycling thats dropped off as time has went, less out for the sheer pleasure of it, into just a slog to get shopping, visit family, but staying very much close to home for the majority of the time. In the last 5 years I've maybe gone further afield about 1/2 a dozen times, and thats affected core strengths, and has made me less able to even do other things someone of my age should be well capable of.
So the ebike makes the body work less, but still promotes core strength i lost when i did my back in, and from sitting too long doing nothing, to get the legs working, the blood pumping, and help put a bit of muscle back there, which im sure will improve my non ebike cycling.
While out I may, likely will, have to stop, visit a shop to buy some juice, grab some chocolate, have a coffee, or even grab a burger so was looking for a lock that would suffice in those type of situation, as the main, with as said that very occasional jaunt to the likes of m&s in the city center.
Instead of oh this lock is good or that lock is good I got the doom mongers 😆 😆 thankfully there were enough informative replies for me to be able to reason a good choice for what I want. The bickering is down to I wont back off a troll fight 😆 but hey ho, times are rough and some folk need to get their entertainment where they can find it.
So I think we've got a fair choice now to be able to make an informed decision.