[Closed] Bike FAIL.

you can see where it bent around the seatpost base although can't see which end went first.

wwaswas - that isn't were it bent around the seat post - it didn't go down that far.

EDIT - the last picture on the first page is how they lined up with each other.

I'm not as yet persuaded by the minimum seat post insertion theory - I've been riding that bike for five years with it at that exact height.

So it took five years to fatigue 🙂 The insertion thing is correct though.

There are no markings or anything else on the frame to indicate a minimum seat post level and nothing in the documentation.

This is where I think you have a case (though tbh I'm suprised anyone would think it was ok but...) - and while I know it's of no relevance, you'd be suprised how often they reject a claim based on the seatpost being out beyond the minimum insertion mark on the seatpost. If yours wasn't or if with the original post and the saddle at the same height it wasn't then I think you can claim that you're owed a replacement.

[img] [/img]

To be honest, you had a lot more seatpost in there than I normally do though. Can't say they've ever exploded.

Err, except for the carbon Zaskar, it deserved it though.

To be honest, your setup looks just like that one in the Thomson example.

Toasty - cheers for that (genuinely!) I guess that puts a different complexion on things. On reflection it does seem that it should have gone past the tube tube, what with 'common sense' and all. When I set it at that height years ago (by marking the post myself) I thought that there was an adequate amount in the frame. Well if that is the reason let it be a salutary lesson to people out there to check! 😳

EDIT - not to mention this being an endorsement of Thomson products!

#notenoughpostinsertedfail

Had to chuckle at this thread..

Might just be a design thing, I think in most frames that would have been MORE than enough, especially given you weren't running a huge amount of seatpost out the top.

Given where it snapped on the top tube it looks like the brace at the top didn't help a huge amount.

Your modification should make it easier to get to that water bottle on the plus side.

Yes thanks for the compassion xiphon - a fair few comments have made me smile as well 😮

OK! The tide mark that can be seen is where the seat post finished. It might not seem it from the photo, which doesn’t give a true sense of perspective - but the mark is directly in line with the bottom of the top tube - so pretty much as shown in the Thomson diagram.

EDIT - perhaps it needed another 20mm at least.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Looking at the new pics I would have said the frame failed at the tip of the weld for the top brace to the top tube. That will have unzipped around the top tube and then the seat tube let go with a bit of plastic distortion.

I went back and checked the first page pics and it reinforced what I am thinking. Would be good to see a picture of the top tube failures end on - don't clean them or anything first. I could take a look if you get any grief as I'm often in Bristol.

Yes it would probably have been better in the long run had the post been longer but is that a 400mm post or one of the shorter ones? I wouldn't say you had a silly amount of post showing out of the top for the frame to be too small and it's the design of the bike that puts the top tube junction so low - and they added the brace because of this.

put a longer post in and all the forces are evenly distributed

Only if you have a very good fit - ie the seat tube is reamed after welding.

The clamp area will still be the point that takes the majority of the load bearing the majority of the time. If there is some deflection then yes maybe the post will react further down the tube but there aleady has to be some delfection for that to happen - more so if there is a poor fit lower down.

If you look at the seat tube just above the break where the top tube is welded there is an internal lip where the weld has come through. This means that the tube must have been quite a bit larger than the seat tube at that point so there would have to be deflection/twisting in the upper section for the post to contact the seat tube. It's aluminium so has no fatigue limit, it's thin wall which makes like worse and it's welded which makes it 3 strikes - ie this looks like a case of a fatigue failure of a thin wall structure under tension just at a highly stressed weld point. A longer post may have helped a bit but I think material properties, manufacture and design are the initial causes.

Obviously I going on photographs on a laptop screen here but that is my initial appraisal.

regards a warranty they my decide that 5 years is an acceptable lifetime and offer you a frame at a reduced price. Especially as you have changed the seat post etc etc (thinking of Giants excuses).

lots of cobblers being spouted if you ask me.
ATB will sort you out i reckon.

But andyl, the seat post would make contact in various places transferring energy.

If you end the post at the top tube, all the torsional forces are working on that little triangle (made by the brace).

Bringing it lower introduces more of the whole frame into the equation - big difference i reckon

Dibbs, what difference does it make?

I would have let the bike shop have their say first out of common courtesy

Dibbs mate - It was Mail Order from way up north - It will get referred to ATB in any case.

combination of questionably sufficient seatpost insertion, lightweight frame, stocky rider and 5 years of riding in my opinion....

remove any one of those variables and it might never have happened... heavier/beefier frame would have been stronger, lighter rider would have put less stress through it, longer post would have reduced flex and stress and maybe lasted longer, bike used for less time, less fatigue.

talk to the shop/distributor and go from there....

Cheers andyl - I'm very grateful. I'll let you know how I get on and may well take you up on your kind offer should you be in Bristol.

Well I specifically asked Spec UK about this when I got my new Pitch, as the seatpost didn't extend below the top tube, but only went to the base of the seat tube support (Spec supplied seat post in Spec frame). Their response was that as long as the bottom of the post was at the bottom of the seat tube support, then no worries as the seat tube support was acting as the top tube.

Why wouldn't this be any different?

[img] [/img]

Wow! Tough crowd in tonight, deluded. Glad you didn't **** yourself. I remember when I broke my old 5 Spot. It split at the clam weld on the seat tube. I had a long Thomson post inserted but what surprised me was that the seat tube wasn't a constant diameter with the inner diameter larger further down into the tube meaning the long post made her haw difference.

I reckon being straight up with the shop and distributed will see you reet.

When it comes to engineering, I'm an accountant so I'm not qualified to say whether you had enough seatpost in or not.

I've got to laugh at some of the tubby comments. Pretty harsh from the Brad Pitt's and George Clooney's of the Singletrack massif! 😀

Isn't there some kind of new tax on pies, or did I dream that?

To the OP,

Go to Atb sales, tell them the truth, all the details, chances are someone who works there will have seen this thread by now.

Tell them how you loved the bike and just want a replacement. You bought it and used in good faith that it was a top class bike. Hopefully they will sort you out.

If not you've had 5 years riding out of a great bike which is a good life for a bike in my eyes. Go buy something else and swap the parts over.

Hope it goes well.

Any news?

No - I've bought a new frame (Cove Hustler) and will be swapping the bits across and purchasing some new forks when funds allow. I'll need the help of my LBS to sort all that though.

ATB have confirmed that it's still in warranty over the phone. I'll be sending it off in the next few weeks - I'll post up the verdict!

Remember this?

I said I’d post an update, so true to my word - here it is.

After swapping some of the components over to my new Hustler build I sent the frame off to ATB via Leisure Lakes with an accompanying letter explaining the circumstances of how it broke.

In very quick time LL got back to me stating that ATB had decided to replace my frame but as they had no E5’s left in stock I was to receive a new E120!

A big thanks to the people at LL/ATB and a ringing endorsement of ATB warranties from me.

Cheers.

[IMG] [/IMG]

I think you can upgrade this thread to 'Bike WIN' now.

Nice, and it's coloured after it's name as well 😯

guessing the seat post insertion wasn't to blame then 🙂

do you also have a 1m long seat post now? 🙂
great result in the end

ATB Warranty WIN!

Wow if only Specialized UK were like this!

Result!

Wow. Lucky man

I love a happy ending.

[img] [/img]

Nice!

Wow! thats pretty good. I guess you'll be swapping the components back??

hora - Member

Wow if only Specialized UK were like this!

Similar experience from Scott this week. Not as old (18months), but press fit BB on my Scale 29er was now hand fit! Phone the shop last Tues as I've moved away, sent some pictures over, new frame in shop today! Just need to collect now. Oh and to boot there's no 2011 frames left so shiny 2012 colour scheme one!

a cracking result.

[img] [/img]

Very good!

On your new Whyte, just to be safe (mainly from the STW Doom Sayers) I would get a solid seat post long enough to reach the BB. Just on the off chance that you might not have enough post in the frame. Or that it might flex.

Oh, and lay off the pies. 😉

guessing the seat post insertion wasn't to blame then

😀 @ Khani

Wow! thats pretty good. I guess you'll be swapping the components back??

CTM - stick to coppering!

Would that be a new shock as well?

Would that be a new shock as well?

Very nice ending. : )

Looks like it's sitting waiting to be enjoyed.

[b]@deluded[/b] Can You post a pick of your' complete build? 🙂

- Yes, Fox Float RP2 Boostvalve.

ExtraWIN!

seems a shame to sell it after they've been so nice to you?

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/brand-new-whyte-e-120-frame-2 ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/brand-new-whyte-e-120-frame-2[/url]