[Closed] Beginner with aspirations - Hardtail or FS?

Go with the hardtail definitely.

Rent a couple of bikes and see what you like

Hardtails are good to learn on, full suss lets you get away with bad habits. Full suss are more comfortable for longer rides. For the price you're looking at, generally a hardtail will have a slightly better spec than a full suss.

The Boardman is meant to be good, but the rear shock needs quite a lot of fettling, which may be difficult for a newbie.

It also depends on where you want to ride it, if you want to take it to the Alps, then as a beginner you'd struggle on a hard tail, then again, you'd probably want more travel than the Boardman gives you.

I learnt on a hardtail, now I ride a full suss.

Nah, hardtail it is. Better bike control if you start on one of those, and in a year or so, you'll have a much better idea of what kind of FS you'll want. Big travel trail bike, or racy cross country flier.

Spend any extra on good winter gloves, tyres, and clothing. You will have more fun, dry, and warm on a cheap bike than the other way round.

Learn on a hardtail. If you get into it in a big way and want a shiney toy later on go with the full sus. You will get a much better bike for your money going down the hardtail route. An off the peg one will get you more "bang for your buck" as well.

As above as well. Spend the extra pennies on riding gear. And cake. 🙂

I learnt on a hardtail, now I ride a full suss

I did it the other way round ,initially I borrowed mates spare bikes but my 1st proper mtb was a susser and I mainly ride HT now . I'd get the HT to start with ,hone your handling skills and if after trying a few you think FS would suit you more then change.

Get a hardtail, get used to riding again. Then think about a full sus in a year or 2, IF you take to riding again.

Focus more on a bike to suit your needs, and where you ride, rather than just what's shiniest, or the one that has an XT rear mech... Personally, I'd suggest the Genesis Bikes range... Either the steel "Altitude" or the ally "Core". I can't reccomend the Altitude enough as an all day trail bike with brilliant handling, an exciting ride, yet its forgiving enough to ride for a long time (something that most hardtails aren't IMO).

[url] http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/altitude/ [/url]
[url] http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/core/ [/url]

Better to spend the money on the frame and forks as these are the key components, and everything else is much easier to upgrade. With this in mind, and your £1000 budget (which to be fair, I'd probably spend all of it, but that's me), I'd go for a Genesis Altitude 10...

Whatever you get though, welcome back, have fun, and see you out there on the trails perhaps!

[edit] Just seen that Kona Kula on Wiggle, and at 35% off RRP it's a fair sized bargain if they've got one in your size actually! [/edit]

Pretty much answered your own question there fella! HT for honing skills, lower investment, less maintenance, lighter, cheaper to run. Get one with some descending genes built into it and you'll keep up with most FS's.

There again what do I know I've never ridden a full suss, but I've never felt the need. Plus there's nothing worse than seeing a grown man mincing down a hill on a FS when you can rinse it on a HT, sadly they're always behind you so you never get the chance to tear past them and demonstrate your skills. Or they pass you uphill and you never see them again.

HT = man's bike. Rigid SS if you're proper hard (not for me).

I would start with a hardtail, for the reasons above, but also as a hardtail is easier to learn how to maintain. If you learn to fix it yourself you'll save a fortune, and a FS can be very daunting (it was to me anyway)

But more than that, HTs are great to learn on, picking lines, getting technique dialled, and its easier to get up hills! a grand full suss will be very heavy...

But after all that, ride a few and see what you think.
welcome aboard!

Hardtail: Lower initial investment, loads of bargains, loads of fun. Thrash and tinker with it for 1-2 years to work out your style and preferences. Then spunk on what you want to ride for the following 3-5 years. The initial HT will then either become a backup/winter off-roader or get commuter-ised.

It is the way and the path Grasshopper...

Personally I'd also say hardtail - if only to build up the skills, get a feel for it and work out whether you want to shell out thousands on something more. I did, stuck with hardtails, but just got more expensive ones! 🙂

I'd also strongly favour the Kona myself. My first 'proper' bike (after a £300 GT and a secondhand Rockhopper) was a Kona Pahoehoe from 2001, which was at the time a step down from the Kula. The geometry was absolutely spot on and infectious - the classic sloping top tube gives you bags of space when your balls aren't as big as the gully you're going down, while bunging the saddle up takes you all over the place. The spec is also generally pretty good, and offers scope for upgrading later if you want.

My first bike was from Merlin. They are good bikes. Mine served me well for numerous years. Good build quality, good spec, hand built wheels that will last. Off the peg bikes tend to hide cheaper components where people don't look, unfortunately these are places that are actually important, BB, hubs headset etc.

You'll get a lot of bike if you spend a grand at merlin. I'd get the Malt 2 and upgrade the forks to the recon and the groupset to SLX (it's worth it over Deore). That's £855 leaving money to put towards pedals, helmet, lycra (to go on it's own or under baggies), a multitool, hydration pack, jacket, pump and a few tubes...

whew cheers guys,

17 minutes in and a raft of useful responses....thanks very much.

Yeah the hardtail route makes sense and will probs be the way I go. Makes more sense to acquire the skills and passion rather than being all the gear no idea (have had thoughts of sacking the budget and just splurging on some shiney FS beast that I patently have no need for!).

On the hardtail front any recommendations for other options I should be looking at (other than the Kula and genesis mentioned above)? Local rides will be road to bridleway to tracks on plains and forest so roots, sand and a few rocks. Few short sharp climbs rather than marathon ascents.

thanks again

I'd get some sort of steel hardtail with a shortish stem, widish bars and 100mm ish travel forks. Cotic Soul/Dialled Bikes PA/On One 456 or similar.

Cheaper, less to maintain, less to worry about and more fun (maybe)

Unless your racing dh, you only need full sus if your lazy/dont have bike handling skills/want a more comfortable ride. It definitely isnt necessary.

If I had to buy an entry level bike now, after trying a good few HT/FS over the years it would be one of these...
[url= http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/products.php?plid=m15b0s2p2288&tbv=GENESIS_Altitude_00_Hardtail_Mountain_Bike_2009_OFF-ROAD_BIKES_Mountain_Bikes_-_Front_Suspension ]CLICK[/url]
[img] [/img]

Fettling the shock on a full suss like the Boardman won't be that difficult, just a matter of trying different air pressures.

The Boardman is sub 30lb so it won't feel like a total pig uphill and it will help you keep up with more experienced bikers downhill. There's a bit of a stigma about low priced full suss but I think the Boardman bucks the trend and is excellent value. Its a fairly standard Horst link affair and the same frame as the more expensive models so well worthy of a bit of upgrading.

That's what I'd buy. People on this forum like their hardtails 😉

urgh don't say that just when the weight of opinion had me convinced hardtail was the way forward.

That was my thinking....I know the boardman aint a big hitter but is it going to get me into and, more importantly, out of the kind of scrapes that I aspire to when, as a newbie, I'll back off on the hardtail?

I live on the North Downs and never quite justified a FS. I cope admirably with a HT. 🙂 However, you may want an FS. And tbh the Boardman Comp looks a really good spec. for the price.
(as with all the boardman range and merlin too)
The Kula on wiggle is the lowest spec. kula. ie not the high end scandium framed one. The parts are interspersed with high and low(er) end. And as expected kona own brand. This for me kind of typifies Kona. Should be better but isn't.
I like the look of the altitude.

Local rides will be road to bridleway to tracks on plains and forest so roots, sand and a few rocks. Few short sharp climbs rather than marathon ascents.

That was my thinking....I know the boardman aint a big hitter but is it going to get me into and, more importantly, out of the kind of scrapes that I aspire to when, as a newbie, I'll back off on the hardtail?

Sounds like for the kind of riding you're going to be doing, you'd wish you bought a hardtail if you buy a full sus! Don't get me wrong, I love full sus bikes, I've had loads (and have a long travel one now), but for just getting out and getting some miles covered offroad, on not mega tough or technical terrain, a hardtail wins hands down. It's lighter, it's simpler, and you're getting more for your money.

... you are getting more for your money

Having gone through more bikes in the last 18 months than I care to think about I'd say go with the hard tail. I went Carrera Vulcan(hardtail), Giant Trance(full suss), Marin Mount Vision(full suss), Genesis IO(fully rigid single speed) and am now building a hard tail. The truth is that unless you are into full on downhill stuff you can get down anything on anything and have fun.
have just bought a Cube Reaction for one of my lads and really impressed at what you can get for just over your budget. Really decent XT kit, Fox forks, good rimes/tyres. I reckon the Cubes are really good VFM

I'll second the Genesis Altitude - cracking bike! 😀

Two of my mates - new to riding - have just bought CUBE hardtails from CRC.
Absolutely cracking value for the money (especially if you buy the 2009 discounted models) went over them both and couldn't find a poor quality part on either of them. Really nice fram geometry, handle well, accelerate like a rocket and hung with lots of good quality kit - you can't lose.

Seriously, i haven't seen any other manufacturer give as good value as CUBE at the moment.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=30535

Plus it looks good!

The Cube is awesome value at <£800 - Reba, XT, SLX, Schwalbe! Quality German brand too.
[img] [/img]

Ridden loads of full sussers and hardtails, so would add that the neither will 'teach' you the skills. Especially as you are returning to riding, the best investment would be some skills training. It'll be a far better investment than paying an extra £100 to get a bike with XT/Reba/whatever.

Forget all this 'only real men ride hard tails/full sussers make you lazy' argument. Hardtails will force you to take different lines, and you will inevitably go slower than on a FS. You may even crash a few more times as you learn, and sometimes those crashes may be enough to put you off riding for a while. Vice-versa - FS will make technical climbing easier, but you may find yourself riding too fast into situations that your current skill level cannot handle.

So, above all, I'd recommend you get some training.

Get a FS. Learn on that and you wont waste time learning on a HT then haveing to learn again when you change to FS. Eaiser, smoother, faster XC and DH.

If I started again Id go stright for a FS.

I'd say go for a HT but nothing too racey, go for something more slack otherwise you may not warm to your new hobby. I was in your boots 16 months back and eventually settled on a P7 with the fox upgrade, I'm certain I made the right choice. Get ready to see all that excess weight fall off! Good luck and enjoy.

So, above all, I'd recommend you get some training.

Is this a joke or are you being serious?

Hard tail for sure.

ideally both, neither is better, and neither is more fun i wouldnt say, they are just different

4-5" tall FS for all day riding

5-6" short and stumpy hard tail for short blasting and dicking about

i love my trance, but if i had all my bikes nicked tommorow, i know exactly what i would get, i wouldnt have to think for a second.

cotic soul
426 revelations
XT groupset and brakes
Hope bearings (hubs, bb and headset)

i would suggest you want more bang for your buck....

in my opinion, you get less from speccy and kona etc, per pound, than you do from giant, and boardman.

i only got my FS cause i was getting the crap beaten out of me in the peaks and the lakes, i would say most of England, and ALL of Wales is HT territory.

I'd err towards a hardtail too. Although the Boardman looks good for the money, an FS will always mean more weight, more maintenance and demand less skill to get the best out of it, which isn't necessarily right for a beginner.

Don't worry about getting anything too flash, personally I can highly recommend Merlin's Malt bikes but you may find that a mass market brand with a no quibble warranty and a good rep for customer service gives you greater peace of mind.

If it were my £1k I'd be looking at either the Merlin (I'm biased, I bought one for the g/f) or a Specialized Rockhopper.

Have you got sizing sorted out? Buying of t'internet is all well and good, but if you're getting back into the sport, the support of a good shop will be worth the extra you might have to spend there. They can advise on pricing, provide general advice, and fix little problems as they come up - possibly for free.

I don't live in Farnham, so don't know the shops there. I'd also recommend a hardtail -you will get more bang for your buck that way. Don't forget to factor in the cost of kit - a lid, gloves and shorts are a good place to start. Hope that helps!

£1k will buy a very good hardtail. Any full susser at this price is in the bargain basement price range. There is nothing you'll ride that can't be ridden on a hardtail, and you'll learn technique better on a hardtail anyway. I'd not even think about anything other than a hardtail.

Re what type of bike, your first proper bike will get a lot of abuse, things will break. You'll benefit from the support of a friendly local bike shop, who ideally will organise local rides and put you in touch with local riders. If they're any good, they'll let you try bikes for size, and advise on the relative benefits/drawbacks of different types of frame set up etc.

You'll get better prices/bikes on the tinternet probably, but the support of a lbs whilst you're new is probably far more important?

Ooops! aka like bent_udder ses....

ok you have your anwser... It's HT... so now before everyone one start saying how great his/hers bike is and how you should buy the same... RUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

😉

I second the lbs comment. Who else is better qualified than a LBS to point you towards the correct bike for your needs

are you looking to cover distances and being a whippet?
or erring more towards "fun"

if its the latter, i would suggest a specialized "P all mountain" from a bike shop

As said, go and try. But HT will probably be your best bet.

Also its a good time for some 09 deals so you can probably make your cash go further than you think. I just got a DMR with 37% off 🙂

Would agree with the get the best frame possible. Genesis are good, also have a look at Charge.

So, above all, I'd recommend you get some training.
Is this a joke or are you being serious?
Being fairly serious. Would you recommend someone take up skiing or similar by just buying the gear and 'giving it a go'?Of course not, but how many riders do you see out on the trails desperately floundering around without any real idea of how to tackle techy trails except to spend more on a better bike, somehow hoping that will allow them to 'conquer' the trail.

Anyway, I'd probably buy a FS in your situation as you'll get more long-term use out of it as your skills develop. You'll probably gain confidence more quickly, as your skills develop.

 

What's this "FS for longer rides" myth? I did an 8 hour ride around the peak ditrict on Sunday on my Cotic Soul hardtail and none of my knackeredness was down to it being a hardtail. If you get a nice fat tyre on the back and a layback seat post it will smooth out the trail buzz unless you have a particularly wonky back. (And the guys who finised the ride at the same time as me all had a mix of HTs and FSs, so it wasn't the bike making me slow).

If you spend the money on a HT make sure you get one with a decent fork though. IMO that's the most important part to get right - because it costs a fortune to geta better one afterwards.

And of course with a HT you can singlespeed it too...

OP, I forgot about sizing. I'm 5'7" and ride a 16" frame for the most part. I live and ride on the North Downs / Surrey Hills, by the way. I do own a full sus bike, and love it, but most of the time 'round here I'm on a hardtail. HTH.

I rode a HT almost exclusively for a few years including riding it in the Alps and I remain totally unconvinced that it made be a better/less lazy/more genuine/faster/slower/more core/less core rider in any way shape or form. However, it is a lovely bike and I still like to ride it when I feel like it (tonight as it happens).

Pick the bike that suits the terrain that you'll be riding on and the bike that's going to inspire you to get out and ride most.

Like Trailmonkey said, pick the bike that suits the terrain you're riding on.

The Boardman or even a Trance X5 are good exceptions to the sub-£1000 full suss. I bought a £700 Scott G-Zero 9 years ago and never looked back. Both the X5 or the Boardman have decent forks (some hardtails are still coming with low rent RS Tora forks at that kind of price) and reasonable kit. With not too much if any a weight penalty over a hardtail at this price, fitting fast rolling tyres and pumping the suspension up harder will be enough to make it feel fine on easy terrain and will allow you to progress when you get to more tricky trails.

Equally, if you're just starting out and see a hardtail as the way to go, don't get drawn in by over built play bikes or all mountain. They will be way over built for what you need and likely heavier than the full suss options.

Too many people on here seem to see owning a hardtail first as a rite of passage!!?

If you're from Farnham, what better way to get you out on the bike and meet people to ride with than Cinnamon_girls forum ride at Swinley in a couple of weeks.

Mind you, meeting some of us lot might put you off.

p.s. my 2 penneth, hardtail with 120mm ish forks, plenty out there to choose from.