[Closed] bad news but the 26" wheel is dead

That makes no sense to me at all. Frame size is selected primarily for leg-length and reach. What has wheel size got to do with that?

Because you, like many, are thinking the way the industry wants you to - that wheel size = bike type.

Think about it, if you were designing a a machine that interfaced with a human, EVERY aspect would scale up to fit people of different sizes. Any bike design will testify that it's easier to get the geometry of a 29er working on a bigger frame - and vice versa.

There are some right drama queens on here. 😆

Giant, Specialized, etc might decide to only make bikes with a certain size wheel but why should Mavic, Stans, Maxxis, Conti, etc care? They don't make bikes, they want to sell you wheels and tyres. Since 99% of the bikes they make wheels/tyres for are 26" they will still make you fancy pants tyres. Even in 5 years or more their market will be over 50% 26" I'd guess so they will still make you and me tyres/wheels.

Put it another way, why would your lbs stop stocking 26" wheels/tyres when I bet they out sell 29er at least 10 to one and 650b even more then that?

Also, don't mention forks as it was pointed out buy the Cotic chap I think that 650b forks should work fine on a 26" frame.

Honestly, I don't know how some of you cope in real life if some thing like this gets you so outraged.

Put it another way, why would your lbs stop stocking 26" wheels/tyres when I bet they out sell 29er at least 10 to one and 650b even more then that?

As my mate with a LBS pointed out, the high end wheel builds in 26" were getting flogged off cheap last year, there are less available to him to buy.

He is amazed as a LBS owner at the speed at which 26" has been dropped by the main manufacturers to the point where he can't get many decent 26" bikes in stock. It's the speed of the turnaround that has taken many by surprise.
I expect to get rubber for a while, high end rims not so much in the XC/trail end of things.

I'll accept you can probably get away with 650b forks if you correct for it.

if you watch that video, you'll see the small innovative companies are saying the same as me - only giant (with their marketing dept making decisions) are selling wheel sizes as bike sizes and killing 2/3 of them off!

Also, the R&D is spent now, the tyre moulds are made, etc. Keeping the choice there is best for consumers

My hard tail currently has 140 revs with straight steerer in 44mm head tube using internal headset.

To use tapered forks (the current standard) I would have to fit external bottom cup and sacrifice 10mm travel to keep roughly the same angles.
Then if I have to then buy 650b forks I would then have to sacrifice another 10mm of travel.
So I will mention forks, if that's alright with you.

Are you going to try a Codeine?

No more new bikes for a while now. I have the Fireline for fast and long distance stuff and the Mega for DH trails and a Dialled Alpine for keeping my pump track and jumping skills sharp.

For most people I cannot really see the point of 650b as they would probably be better off just getting a 29er. You could write that as "for most people I cannot see the point of 26er" but that's what I have got, I assume 26ers are a bit more robust/stronger, can be chucked around more and are a bit more manoeuvrable (That is what it feels like when I compare 26ers and 29ers).

Think about it, if you were designing a a machine that interfaced with a human, EVERY aspect would scale up to fit people of different sizes.

A 19" frame on a 27.5 feels bigger than a 19" frame on a 26. A man in Halfords told me so.

As my mate with a LBS pointed out, the high end wheel builds in 26" were getting flogged off cheap last year, there are less available to him to buy.

He is amazed as a LBS owner at the speed at which 26" has been dropped by the main manufacturers to the point where he can't get many decent 26" bikes in stock. It's the speed of the turnaround that has taken many by surprise.
I expect to get rubber for a while, high end rims not so much in the XC/trail end of things.

Agree that he'll struggle to get 26" bikes but stand by my point that wheel and tyre makes will support any size that sells.

I am guessing it would feel some what bigger, longer chain stays, longer wheelbase.
Wether it feels taller, may do, despite maybe not being so.

So I will mention forks, if that's alright with you.

You'll still be able to get forks that will work, calm down. You can still get forks with a 1 1/8th if you look.

Some people are determind to find problems to fit their arguement and will continue to do so regardless of what's an actual fact.

what matters is OEM sales, how many people change the wheels, very few, how many change the forks, again very few.

Tyres do get changed so making them for a bit longer makes sense.

Rock Shox, AFAIK, work on 3 years for spares. IF your fork is still, or close enough to not matter a current product you will still be able to get spares, older forks less chance. If the new market demands 650 then that is what will be made, the cheap forks you see are usually oem and last years models. So the cheap good forks will be the first thing to disappear. Wheels, well as not many get changed, no point making them either. So they will, at least the higher quality ones, disappear quickly as well.

With no demand for decent wheels, the demand of high quality tyres will dry up, why build race quality tyres if no one is going to use them? so the tyres will be the cheap ones.

I don't know the average time to replacement for MTBs at the higher end of the market but this again will come into play.

Give it 4 years and see what is left in 26", new and aftermarket. I suspect very little above BSO level.

Did the road bike forums do this when annoying metric 700c replaced 27in?

Yes but not the forks of my choice, but instead make do, or buy a replacement frame That would take tapered forks.

I have a 2010 5 also ,with 1-1/8 headtube, and started looking for the newer 26" frame with tapered headtube,
But then thought better of it as I would not be surprised if the steerer standard changed again.
And decided instead to carry on with what I have and worry about when the time came, which is basically what you are saying.

I have no problem with other standards but the quick and deliberate killing off of recent standards just to force the market.

That numptie from giant saying they had an endgame in mind for 29ers sums it up, they will try to kill it before it has run its natural course.

And when all the 29er riding people here start bleating that the industry is trying to kill the standard they enjoy I will laugh, probably not actually, knowing my luck I would have bought one the day before.

its just how the bike industry rolls

I had to ditch my rapid rise and go 10 speed to get a clutch mech 🙁

Brant, did it though? 27 was British/Imperial/American/etc size 700c French/Metric, where was the money to be made, where were the markets. Made sense to rationalize to one size. you can still get the wheels if you look, just don't expect top of the range.

Which to be honest I can see happening with 650b, How much stock can the average LBS carry? do they really want to hold three sets of tyres, inner tubes, rims, do distributors want to be holding three sets of forks? wheels etc.

Lots of stock means lots of capital tied up, makes the cash flow more difficult. More risk of being stuck with stock at the end of the year, more chance of having to right off stock. all down sides to carrying lots of variants.

You can still get forks with a 1 1/8th if you look

You can still get forks with a 1 1/8th if you look

26" 2014 model year?

[url= http://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/sektor-rl#specs ]2 mins searching[/url]

I see little logic in scaling wheels to fit rider heights. Wheels affect how the bike feels or helps to bias its use, it's not an ergonomic consideration unless you're at the far ends of the height bell-curve. imo that is.

Think of it this way, a 6'6" rider on an xl bike with 26" wheels has a centre go gravity much higher than that of a short person. When the front wheel hits a square edge, this CoG has a great affect on whether the wheel will roll over - compounded by the big guy's weight pushing down.

So the big guy goes over the bars while the shorty rolls over.

So weight and CoG will have way more affect than angle of attack / wheel characteristics.

But again, the industry simplifies things to comments like '29ers roll over stuff' etc

So we're back to every part of a bike fitting the rider. In other words a big rider will get more out of a big wheels characteristics - A small, less powerful rider may be better off saving weight and riding a 26".

2014 pikes tapered only, after this year revs will be tapered only.
Sektors are a more lower/mid level capable am fork that are currently being heavily discounted everywhere at the moment for what ever reason.

I bought the revs this year despite not really being currently economically flush because I wanted to get them while I still can.

I have sektor DPCs on the five because they were all I could afford when building the bike and will look into having them upgraded if I can soon.

You can google for two minutes and find a suspension fork no problem, look at an on line retailers entire range of forks and see how few are 26" straight steerer, and the choice Is only getting smaller.

chip - Member

Please tell me you asked the chap to stand if not already, before taking a firm grip on his waistband as you proceeded to pour his coffee into the front of his shorts whilst uttering you sir are a fool.

If you did that to everyone who said some damn fool thing in glentress cafe, you'd never stop (and tbh I'd have to do it to myself a couple of times too)

buzz-lightyear - Member

That makes no sense to me at all. Frame size is selected primarily for leg-length and reach. What has wheel size got to do with that?

Big wheels look silly in most small frames. Most people buy bikes they like the look or idea of. I'd have considered a medium Stumpy Evo 29er if it wasn't so disgusting to look at.

There's probably some more practical considerations- 29ers are harder to package small, and heavier for equivalent spec, you might even run into toe overlap on shorter frames which is just awful on an mtb. But I bet you a shiny scottish Salmondollar that it's really all about looks.

I agree with your example. 6' 6" is

at the far ends of the height bell-curve

So weight and CoG will have way more affect than angle of attack / wheel characteristics.

Height is one part of weigh distribution, rider build is another. I know an occasional rider who's shorter than me by maybe 5", but his c of g will be the same if not higher - he's built like a tank but he doesn't have cyclist legs )

My point about proportional wheels was more with the idea that a brand makes 'one model' with 3 scaled wheels depending on frame size, or 2 wheels over 4 frames. OK, use a smaller wheel on a really tiny 29er maybe, but it's not that straightforward. Change the wheels and you change what the bike is to some extent, if you've designed a character into a bike you change that when the wheels change, it's like putting longer forks on etc.

This has to be one of my favourite threads, like EVA! 😆

^ poor choice Mr J. The 11th 650B thread was better. Or is it a 26" thread? I dunno.

am i the only persson that thinks it makes perfect sense from a manufacturer point of view? We have had 26 in wheels for years. If your looking for a new bike you could get a really high top end second hand frame for the price of a new middle spec bike. Why would you spend more money on a lesser quality bike? Nowthen everyone agrees that 29ers are good but are different. Some people like them some dont but it still ment that you could go and get (as ive just done) a 26 in frame a year old that was 50% of the retail. You were happy with your bargin but the manufacturers less so.

Now they have obsoleted it over night effectively. Everyone saw the sales potential of 29ers but couldn't get them to stick. Now there's something thats effectively like the tapered headtube but its a new thing, you need it, your bike is rubbish without it etc etc. Only this time it means a large number of component changes so people are more wary.

We cant stop it. It will come along and reduce the value of our bikes and in a few years most of us i would expect will be riding them. for the meantime im happy with my "last of the breed" 26er.

jameso - to be clear, I'm not saying scaling wheels up through a range should be the [i]only[/i] thing a designer should do.

But as Northwind said, small frames with 29ers look daft. I'd add that an XL frame with 26" wheels also looks daft! So from an aesthetic point of view also, using a range af wheel size could be a good idea.

re preferences - I love my 29er, but not really much to do with it's wheel size! And it's super quick to change direction - not really fitting the industry clichés!

I think it rolls over stuff a bit better - technical loose climbs are most noticeable. But it's the lightest bike I've had which will be making a big difference.

Yes but not the forks of my choice, but instead make do, or buy a replacement frame That would take tapered forks.

I have a 2010 5 also ,with 1-1/8 headtube, and started looking for the newer 26" frame with tapered headtube,
But then thought better of it as I would not be surprised if the steerer standard changed again.
And decided instead to carry on with what I have and worry about when the time came, which is basically what you are saying.

I have no problem with other standards but the quick and deliberate killing off of recent standards just to force the market.

I was in the same situation with a 2009 5. I'd upgraded it over time but was starting to look at a dropper (the ones I like the look of are all 30.9mm +) and had realised if I wanted to change the fork I'd be limited with 1 1/8th so started to look about for a change. None of this was caused by 650b, it all happened before that but no one seemed so bothered at the time.

Couldn't afford a brand new bike of choice so very nearly hit the button on a tapered 5 frame (26"). In the end got a very good deal on a complete and as new 5 29 so thought I'd have a look at a 29er.

I've got a steel HT frame that needs building up but has 1 1/8th steer tube so it's becoming more difficult to find forks I fancy at the right price. I won't be able to get a dropper I want for that.

Although I agree that the industry has been naughty with how they're pushing 650b all of my problems were caused before 650b by the same people looking to make money. It's how it is and how it's always been and in the grand scale of things does not really matter.

Tyres and rims will continued to be made to a high standard while there's a market for them. When there's not a market they may dry up but the market at present, and well in to the future (unless everyone buys 650b) will still be there. These people want to make money. Why would they stop making parts that make them lots of it? No one has answered this through-out all the moaning.

spectabilis - Member

You can still get forks with a 1 1/8th if you look

26" 2014 model year?

2 mins searching

You can google for two minutes and find a suspension fork no problem, look at an on line retailers entire range of forks and see how few are 26" straight steerer, and the choice Is only getting smaller.

what Chip said .
the replies from the 26" club seem a bit desperate or maybe muffled, maybe the heads are buried in the sand?

Lots of interesting (and conflicting) points made in this thread, without anyone being a dick about it... but then look who comes back.

Of course. I'm saying there's no ergonomic or credible design reason to scale wheels to rider height within a bike model, not for the height range that most production bikes cover. Scale bars and frames and cranks, yes. And hat off to those making bikes small/large enough to really justify the wheels for ergonomics (Zinn, Terry). Demand for them is fairly small though (could be bigger but that's another point)

If it's done for looks, fair enough, products are sold on looks. But the marketing will dress it up with some height-chart stuff I'm sure..

There's no-one I know of saying that their 29ers rides like a 26, not with any credibility. They may liken some traits to a 26, but it's not the same or meant to mean 'the same'. So imo it's back to saying the wheels help tune a ride feel. That's all, no one wheel is better than another and for the majority of riders wheel size is simply a choice. If you think the 26" is the one for you then I do see why people are so pssd off at 650B. But a fair number of people have been happy riding both 29 or 650 or 4" tyres when they were minor niches, there's no reason to move to another size if you feel strongly enough about it.

edit to add

re preferences - I love my 29er, but not really much to do with it's wheel size! And it's super quick to change direction - not really fitting the industry clichés!

I'm saying there's no ergonomic or credible design reason to scale wheels to rider height within a bike model, not for the height range that most production bikes cover.

I can't agree with that... if you want your weight balanced in the same way for different sized riders, then scaling up/down everything, including wheels, might make sense, no?

Because any one rider CAN ONLY BE ONE SIZE, you can never say from experience whether a small rider might find the handling of a [b]XS 26 [/b]bike much the same as a larger rider finds the handling an [b]XL 29 [/b]bike.

Even if you could scale the size of the rider up or down, to test your scaling idea you would also have to scale the trails and possibly gravity as well so it all gets a bit academic

So.... If you were all buying a new hardtail this year, would you opt for a 650B or a 26" ?

or 29" ?

Because any one rider CAN ONLY BE ONE SIZE, you can never say from experience whether a small rider might find the handling of a XS 26 bike much the same as a larger rider finds the handling an XL 29 bike.

As far as roll-over goes, I've always thought that the wheels (or the trails) don't give a stuff how tall you are - all they know how much momentum you're carrying. But that's also assuming to some extent the rider isn't moving about as per the height example earlier. Less so, but getting to the point where the Germans would try to make a computer model of it all and I'd say f-it ride them and see how it feels : )

Considering the inane original post and the number of times the topic has been covered, how on earth has this thread got to 7 pages?!

P.s. I appreciate the irony that I've just added to it...

P.p.s Mods - stop this madness and lock the thread 🙂

holdsteady - Member

So.... If you were all buying a new hardtail this year, would you opt for a 650B or a 26" ?

I'd get the bike I liked the most. 29er seems to make sense for hardtails but it wouldn't be the deciding factor.

No the length of the thread is irrelevant - there has been a wheelsize thread running continuously for how long - three years?

There's a lot of the same ground covered, but it does throw up some interesting stuff for me, the perceptions and why people ride what they do etc. Along with the bile.

rOcKeTdOg - Member
spectabilis - Member
You can still get forks with a 1 1/8th if you look
26" 2014 model year?
2 mins searching

You can google for two minutes and find a suspension fork no problem, look at an on line retailers entire range of forks and see how few are 26" straight steerer, and the choice Is only getting smaller.
what Chip said .
the replies from the 26" club seem a bit desperate or maybe muffled, maybe the heads are buried in the sand?

Desperate? why would it matter to me?

[i]So.... If you were all buying a new hardtail this year, would you opt for a 650B or a 26" ? [/i]

bought a Privee Shan (26"). I'm very happy with it. I didn't worry about spares of wheels tyres or forks.

Just an idea:
Work out how long you intend keeping your 26 and then stockpile your favourite tyres, maybe a favourite rim or two and if you're really paranoid a pair of forks.
More realistically re. forks get them serviced regularly and you won't have to lay out a load of dosh up front.
Usually - barring crashes - by the time forks are shagged the bike's long in the tooth and spending 5 or 6 hundred quid on a new pair would perhaps be better spent towards a new bike as umpteen other 'standards' will have changed anyway.
If you're just into running a classic sourcing hard to find parts goes with the territory.

FFS get on the bloody thing & ride it until it's ****ed.

Have just ordered a stock of 26 Panaracer smokes and darts, plus some Mavic 531s, a Marco Pantani selle saddle and a second hand P-Bone fork just in case

Have just ordered a stock of 26 Panaracer smokes and darts, plus some Mavic 531s, a Marco Pantani selle saddle and a second hand P-Bone fork just in case

Damn! That'll inflate the prices before I get my order in.
I really must keep my best ideas to myself!